The Ultimate Vampire Resource and Directory

Are there any energy feeders in the house?

I'm working on a reply...gimmie a few!! lol I will say that I have experienced a lot of this during religious services.

durring native american rain dances the beating of the drums you feel them vibraten inside you and you feel the intenceity of the dance you just know its goona rain and amen to the power of any religion

Anyone united for a singular purpose will feel energy.

Women dancing together generate powerful perceptible vibrations, much more so than in a club with mixed sexes. not sure about men only, since I've observed them as part of a group of women.

Origination of witches' circles, I think, and the dances that evolved.

Actually dancing is important in every culture.

So if the religion involves dancing, I'm in.

Yes the spirit absolutely vibrates on energy especially a focused event.

Personally I have not experienced it in a religious setting but have in a concert setting...you can feel the energy in the air...it is very infectious and kind of gives you a high of sorts.

again ahh with the energy hun i do feed energy i can also drain it but im still weak to a point smile, but yes it can happen!

Yes I can say that I have experienced the energy you describe many times.

Personally I don't believe that you affect any kind of gathering in the way you describe though.

I hope this is answering correctly to the topic, I just woke up lol.

"Where two or more are gathered in my name there I will be." During worship the spirit of God becomes even more apparent and at times you feel like you could cut through the air with a butter knife.

I have been in many different types of Churches and many services where the energy inside builds and builds until people can not contain it, it's a very wonderful experience.

There have been studies where they found that sometimes it just psychosomatic but the majority of them shows a real change in the body and mind.

During these times of "religious energy" I simply see it as physical proof of a connection and personal communication with the divine :)

Xzavier has the answer you are looking for. I have been to several churches and what have you. Each time when the time gets to the singing and dancing, speacking in tongue's or what ever else, I have notcied exactly what you are describing. The energy that is felt is something that you can not leave alone until the energy is changed some how. At the Native American Pow Wows the energy that is given off from the ceremonies done is off the chain.

Can't say I've really experienced that myself...I haven't felt comfortable enough in a religious setting to allow myself to. It doesn't suprise me that they do summon an energy of their own though.

I have experienced this feeling you just want to bottle up and save it. During Peace ceremonies with the Native Americans, and in a coven outside of VR. That is why after releasing the circle food is required to lower the energy.

i have noticed and felt something in one of the churches I did attend, donot know if it was the preacher or what but several became over estatic and loud. and energy level of high perportion. A feeling of overwhelming energy. but I think this also holds true for alot of aspects in society and not just religious based energy. Concerts, and any spectator sports may be included.

It is very common for me to walk into a group or church session of many different styles and pick up the energies. It is the type of energies that makes the difference though. I have picked up the good and bad.

When my family used to drag me to church, I used to feed on the ambient energy. Religious services are great for generating unguided energy. They provide a great feed.

Well, I doubt this applies to many, but in my case, I find that when I am surrounded by live music and a large group of people -- I get such an intense high it's almost erotic! Even sitting still through an opera or classical concert (oooh, especially in the park!!) -- I get the same reaction. My heart pounds, I am very conscious of my breathing and I feel almost floaty (yes, that is a new word VR).

We can't forget though that being in a festive environment and enjoying oneself can cause these "highs."

I think it's important to distinguish between the feelings and energies we get during non-religious events and those during. I'm gonna do some reading and try and find a few sources to the point :)

I agree with your point, Xzavier -- I suppose I need to explain my position a little better...
For me, music is VERY religious. I realize how this may sound to some and can;t do much about that, however, the fact remains that, in my case, all that religion may encompass for some; music does for me. Hell, I could be in a church listening to the music and feel deeply and lose the feeling as soon as that contact is broken.
Blah, I realize, this is probably not conveying itself properly.

Actually your point is understood (at least by me and prolly Oceanne)
Music is very important and can be a religious thing as with you. It has great effects on the human body and mind and can increase the energies immensely.

I was just trying to point out the difference between the normal religious ideas and people like you (which includes me) from those that saw Led Zeppelin and think Jeebus spoke to them in a bottle of water lol

I have it anytime I am in the Church on my own I know it sounds funny but the way it is

My point of notice is in the acceptance of emotional and sensational expectations of those that gather for spiritual purposes, I mean are they solely expecting to be entertained by their faith? I find passages in their own text that discourage, placing the burden of their faith on feelings and emotions.

I guess from reading the post I notice the difference already lol
Most agree a level increase of energy.
For those who are not labeled vampire Do you feed from it in a way?
What do you feel during the events you mention?

What's really important to do when participating in these discussions in our forum is to try your best not to offend ANY religion. We can answer these questions without crossing the line.

As far as any of your negative experiences, those are to be blamed on the PEOPLE and not the faith. It is always the people that warp words.

I've found nothing discouraging in my religion, only encouragement. And you can only truly speak with a solid foundation of you have read entrie text, not simple passages... there's an entire story there in front of and behind the passages people select. But this is not the place to be discussing it.

it's about 'religious energy'- we can easily say if we've experienced it or not, and what it was like.

For me, I experience the most energy when in churches that are a couple hundred or more years old. I can feel the spirits of all those who worshipped there before, and I feel better in touch with God. Althought it isn't true, it is as if God can hear me clearer when I am there.

***Now, do not be offended and think I am pointing fingers at you because you may have said your Christian experience was not pleasant, heck, I have had those too... I am speaking of posts that exclusively focus on that instead of the subject.

Lol I wouldn’t offend religions imagesinwords (any more) lol
My original thought on the post was aimed at energy feeders, however it became more apparent and rather interesting that more people be it in church or a football match felt energy.
Now im interested to which level normal people feel energy.
Hope iv not crossed any lines on the religious point, didn’t think I did?
The negative or disruption is something energy feeders know about, not that the event wasnt good... im going next sunday too..... free feed and intresting concepts.... wait till they find out im a vampire lol
but my comment on that was not to say going to church was bad.... i just wanted to know if some were more powerfull energy wise than others.

Being of a house in real life that is recorded as a religion I also feel insulted a lot when vampire beliefs are criticized and abused and poo pood every day on VR

Lav- In this case (and this is rare folks lol) I fully agree with your point of view and think this post is very interesting and right on track.

Last weekend I attended a celebration of 40 years of my wicca tradition with about 60 other initiates. We started the ritual at sunset and after the invocation of the Goddess we danced the dance of power.
We were skyclad under the night sky under a nearly full moon and began the dance chanting and holding hands in a circle with a fire burning in a cauldron in the centre. We danced and accelerated the speed until we were going very fast, the energy building until finally we fell exhausted. The energy was intense and all who participated felt the power as we lay on the ground. The energy was directed to charge some insense which was made especially for the occasion, and we each got a package of it.

I am no level of vampire -- sorry all fleshy and such...
But to answer your question -- I most certainly feed off of the energy surrounding me. It's like an adrenaline rush that starts in your chest and then bursts through the rest of you. That, and I feel a oneness with the people around me.

I guess when I say vampire being around like people I forget.
No were not undead bat transforming crypt creepers.
We are life stylers who have some tendencies close to the myth

Do you think religious energy is more energized then a social energy? I agree with the one who posted above about music being their religious connection as I am one who finds the truth in myself by listening to music...I feel at peace and at one when listening to it...so I do feed of the energy it provides for me and those who may be around me...as also was stated earlier...it is an adrenaline rush of sorts.

I must say what I get from music wasn’t close to what was coming out of the church and to tell you iv not felt that much energy in other churches… just wondered if any one knows of a area or group that is mighty strong energy wise… so I can pop in and check for myself

I am not an energy feeder myself but I have experienced an overwhelming amount of energy when attending church in the past and more specifically when we are all focused on one thing, it was amazing and almost brought me to tears.

meditation circles are good they build up strong energy waves.

When enough people get together to celebrate their spirits are lifted and they seed energy from each other and take upon the mind set that one another has. Creating the ectacy you talk about.

when i did attend church when we sang i felt a very strong wonderful energy but when we would sit through a long lecture i would see people getting irratated and uncomfortable. that is when i decided why do we put ourselves through that.

I have to think that being at a worship around a lot of people would be invigerating. Or perhaps a religious wedding. That is definitely something [any wedding really] that raises many types of energy.

Anywhere, where there's a common will of people, you are going to find high energy, no matter if you call it prayer or meditation. It is a fact that it helps people, sending your well wishes to people.

Reiki is all about energy. And you can't use it for harm. Our spirit guides stop that from happening. In fact, when you send energy to someone, when using Reiki, you ask their guides if they will allow the energy through, so that they can receive healing energy. If not, it goes out into the universe. What is to be, will be.

Yes reiki does interest me on the energy level, im wondering what will happen when I meet one….

in alot of cultures there are story of group engery. the more people the more powerful it becames.

Oh definitely. Energy, I believe, comes with strength from a group mind. Take a rock concert for example- the energy produced by a gig can be mind blowing.
The same goes for religions, but I believe it can be even more potent. It's a different sort of energy. Sort of a passionate belief given an outlet. Any feeling or belief that has any strength to it has the capacity to create energy. So a belief as strong as a religious faith is able to generate a good deal of it. =)
I have experienced that a good deal of times. The one place where it was at it's strongest was in a mosque. I had goosebumps so strong I could have sworn someone was stabbing me with needles! =)

Great thread...
Of course with a group of people lots of energies are raised. We just had a full moon circle the other night and there was a lot of people. being able to raise the energy so high is always such a rush of mind and spirit.

Well, it would be pretty egotistical to think only one spirituality or few could conjure such energies.

Passion reveals itself in the most personal facets of our lives- our spirituality ranking most high. It happens everywhere, no matter the deity or lack thereof.

What do you mean by "spiritual"?

In the usual context, the best I can garner is that it's a word people use when they experience intense emotions, but want to make something more of it than what it is. I'm not trying to upset anyone but I think the whole idea requires some pause followed by a bit of applied critical-thought. My assertion is that if more people really spent some time thinking about such concepts rather than just accepting them and following the herd, they'd realize the whole idea is pretty much lacking in any substance.

Energy is a different situation. We do know that energy exists. It's real. But I continually see the word mis-applied to mean, a feeling people are unable to understand or articulate as other than emotionalism.

As far as "religious energy" goes, I would have to suggest that this is nothing but emotion spawned through one's personal passion. What's the difference between this suggested "religious energy" and the emotional enthusiasm one might feel while being "in the zone" playing with a band, riding a bicycle on a competitive level, engaging in artistic creativity or anything else a person might choose to engage in with intense personal passion?

I do not belong to a congregation nor do i attend big group events.And If i was an energy feeder I would stand right out side my house.I have a power switching station 100 feet from me that buzzes constantly.I would be in heaven.

I'd have to think any place could be religious. Like, the woods for example. Surrounded by nature energy is all around.

Lavisbre:

I have known several people in the past who have fed from the ambient energy during a religious service. One of these people is Catholic so she was always at Church during service anyway. I, personally, have not fed from the energy given off during a service, but I absolutely have noticed the energy available. I'm sure it was a great feed!

This is very true about religion it is made up of people and it is the people that make or break it and sometimes it is just a small group or one specific. I am not Christian by definition but I met a few people in the 90s actually a bit younger than I was but I started attending their church that was Seventh Day Baptist. It is this church that had to do with the break in the Adventist. Most don't know it is older. Anyway there was something about the people and the pastor they had. He had good insight as his profession was a psychologist. In this group they just get a small stipen for services. I LOVE music so I started attending Contemporary Christian functions. The energy they raised was awesome and I always felt good there. Words can't hurt anyone so I let them say their words and enjoyred the ambience. Some of the bands were far more talented than some of the secular. They have many involved in music ministries. Back then my favorite band of this type was Whiteheart but they disbanded. It is a shame. They never knew I was not of their belief because I never challenged it but just enjoyed the positive experience and energy flow.

Oh bad parents to give kids" the eye". But any religion I noticed on up holidays (like weddings, birth, christmas) the energy is such a high. Felt dizzy a few times. But on low (death) ,sad times I felt heavy almost unable to move. So others moods do effect ourselves, our energy.

As iv noticed in some post before, those who do not feed on energy don’t understand what we feel.
Sure a gathering of friends is exciting and a concert for sure gives a rush of energy.
We know what were feeling and taking is much different

lavisbre,

In regard to; "As iv noticed in some post before, those who do not feed on energy don’t understand what we feel.

We know what were feeling and taking is much different

I grant you that this is the common assertion. However, there is far more than assertion that should be looked to in any attempt to understand the truth. There is evidence. And not some petty smidgen of twisted indication -- solid, concrete, repeated, documented, mountainous, evidence.

Have a look at just one sample;
http://discovermagazine.com/2006/apr/placebo-placebo

Do you think these people knew what they were feeling? They certainly thought so. Do you think the three subjects who suffered so acutely from side-effects that they dropped out of the study, knew what they were feeling? Do you suppose when they reported the reduction in pain they might have thought they knew what they were feeling? And yet all of those feelings were based upon nothing more than expectation and subjective belief. And they were all wrong.

If we look to the early days of searching for a surgical treatment for angina, we get the same kind of results. The surgical technique (ligation of the mammary artery), was tried on a few volunteers and they reported remarkable success. After the surgical technique became the standard treatment, patients continued to report remarkable reduction of pain. Do you suppose they knew what they were feeling?

Apparently, they didn't because a double-blind study demonstrated that people receiving a sham surgery reported the same degree of pain relief as those who received the real surgery.

And it doesn't stop there. A second surgical technique was adopted wherein the mammary artery was cut from the chest wall and sutured to the myocardium. Once again patients reported remarkable success and after sufficient testing with hard claims of very significant results, this newer technique was adopted as the standard treatment. This time it took many years before some of the recipients of the surgery died and the autopsies showed that the surgical technique was a total failure. Do you suppose those patients would have claimed they knew what they were feeling? I just bet they would have.

Turn to the University of Wisconsin La Crosse team. Do you suppose they knew what they were feeling when they turned in faster times after consuming a performance enhancing product called "SuperOxygenated Water"? Do you suppose they knew what they were feeling when they then learned that what they were drinking was just ordinary tap water?

The lesson to be learned is that people don't know what they're feeling. They know what they expect to feel. Gather a group of friends together and begin mixing drinks. But pick one party-goer who will unknowingly, receive no alcohol. Certainly they'll know what they're feeling, right? In almost every such case (this is a fairly common prank), the one receiving no alcohol will act just as drunk as everyone else.

When objective analysis fails to support the findings of subjective assessment, it's not the objective analysis which is wrong. In tens of thousands of years of hundreds and hundreds of gods, religions, ceremonies and untold billions of believers, objective analysis has been correct while subjective assessment has been consistently wrong. How many people still believe in gods like Dionysus, Osiris, Mithras, Tammuz, Horus or Zeus; just to name a few? Aren't all of those gods and the religions spawned in their names pretty much relegated to mythology now? Think of all the billions and billions of followers of all of these gods and their proclaimed religious trances, energies and experiences. Apparently, they were all wrong. -- but not you.

People are never quick to learn from the continual, consistent and demonstrable failure of such ideas. People just find it too attractive to believe they hold a personal importance even greater than that of the whole of the universe, that they never really die, and that when loved ones die, it's but a temporary separation. Yet we see dozens of dozens of gods, dozens and dozens of religions and billions and billions of followers, all of whom thought they knew what they were feeling, declaring feelings of salvation, love, energy, tranquility, enthusiasm, knowledge, wisdom, enlightenment and even possession. And all of them were wrong.

Yet you, like them, assert that you are unique and somehow different and you "know" what you're feeling. I suggest that you do not. You know what you expect to feel and you get caught up in the emotional tone of the events. And just like all of the people in these studies and countless hordes of people before such studies, you believe that you experience what you expected.

Ok iv just read the article ….. don’t see the relationship between psi vampire and people with arm injuries?
If they took 266 vampires then were talking…. Lol
I don’t see how comparing oranges with elephants means anything?
As for the read we already know power of the mind is strong, the acupuncture faked showing red marks might make you think the person doing it might be reiki in nature.. who knows as the plan was not to test subjects or givers for energy vampirism.
As for people who need antidepressants … please that report is just wrong, you will find the truth is if I had a pain in my arm I would get my own drugs as soon as I found the sugar pills gave me know Please… would I admit I got stoned when your paying to cure me lol
So with statistics I find things that have a thousand to one chance of happening happen 9 time out of ten.
If your experiment needs statistics, you ought to have done a better experiment. Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.


besides that you wrote a long post ... thanks

lavisbre,

I'm sorry you read all of that without grasping the fact that I'm using real-world studies to demonstrate the unreliability of subjective beliefs. If your belief is subjective and unsubstantiated via objective means, call it "false".

That cuts to the point in far fewer words.

Statistics? Did I present statistics? I'm fairly certain I did not. That would be a strawman argument -- arguing against an argument not given, in an attempt to refute the points made without addressing the points made.

The point remains -- superstitions are held based on subjective assessment or, as I've heard it called by many "internal evidence". If you have no objective support for a belief, then there is no real reason to hold it as anything but a false belief.

Sorry beast
Semantics for sure.
I mentioned the statistic given in the link to the “experiment” in your post?
As for stawman …. Well lol
I do see your view and if science cant prove it then in your assumption it is a false believe, does that courtesy extend to all beliefs … you know the ones based on faith and no proof.
I see a fault with your concepts, one the link to show placebo effects are aimed at bad arms not energy vampirism, point two your using science lack of exploration as a “false”
Personally I know it is not a “false” but a reality science hasn’t understood yet.
So once again thanks for your post I do like a thinking mind

Lav, In response to your question about music and energy levels. When I attended some of the native american powwows I found tht the amount of energy that is given off extremely off the charts. The enrgy that I have spoken of before in my previous post is the same that I have felt in these powwows. I love being able to feed off of things like the powwows and the energy from past church goings.

Totally cheetahcry
Personally iv avoided churches that are not abandoned out of choice and ignorance.
It opened my eyes to the amount of energy to take in such an event.
Nothing to a full on Sabbath with tribal drums and the creatures of the night, dancing sky clad and feeling the entities as I feed on the energy of old

the larger the group with a single focus the more intense the experience will be no matter the religion, focus idea or, place

lavisbre,

[i]Semantics for sure.[/i]
Not at all. It's not semantics to show that the means up which you're relying is consistently and demonstrably unreliable.
---

[i]I mentioned the statistic given in the link to the “experiment” in your post?
As for stawman …. Well lol[/i]
Don't just "lol". If you have a point to make then make it. I'm not prone to accepting anyone's inability to understand a concept well enough to take it seriously as a sign that their argument has merit.
---

[i]I do see your view and if science cant prove it then in your assumption it is a false believe, does that courtesy extend to all beliefs … you know the ones based on faith and no proof.[/i]
Science has proved that the purely subjective is unreliable many times over. Everytime such a study is completed the outcome is the same -- purely subjective observations are nearly always wrong.
---

[i]I see a fault with your concepts, one the link to show placebo effects are aimed at bad arms not energy vampirism[/i]
The study utilizing chronic arm pain was simply one example. And the whole concept which you seem to have missed isn't about the malady, but the response to suggestion. This has been repeated over and over and over and it doesn't matter whether the feigned point is chronic arm pain, chest pain due to insufficient perfusion of myocardial tissues or even athletic performance. The outcome is always the same. Purely subjective observations tend to conclude exactly what was expected, even when the expectations were known to be false and planted specifically for the purpose of the study.
---

[i]point two your using science lack of exploration as a “false”
Personally I know it is not a “false” but a reality science hasn’t understood yet.[/i]
This is a fairly common mistake made by those who hold little if any understanding of the process known as "science". You want to blame science for a lack of exploration rather than noting that science can only explore on the basis of evidence. And when it comes to your assertions, there just isn't any. You're asking science to follow your map, then admitting that you don't have a map. None-the-less, you fault science for not following your map. When you can produce some objective evidence, there will be something for science to follow. Until then, any exploration of the subjective assertions simply isn't science.
---

[i]So once again thanks for your post I do like a thinking mind[/i]
I'm sure we all do. That's why we're here.

And since I note a limited capacity here, let me flesh-out the problem for you with some other examples. I'm going to ask that you attempt to focus on the outcomes and not the specific feigned aspects which make the studies possible.

In the 50s there was a lot of pressure for a surgical treatment for angina pectoris. "Angina Pectoris" is little more than chest pain stemming from inadequate perfusion of the myocardium. It's a warning sign because it's caused by partial occlusion of one or more coronary arteries and a precursor to myocardial infarction (heart attack).

The first technique was to open the chest cavity and ligate the distal end of the mammary artery. The hope was that this would increase systolic pressure to the myocardium. In the initial tests the patients reported significant reduction of pain. After many such experimental surgeries this technique became the standard surgical treatment for angina.

However, after a time one of the prominent surgeons began reading reports on placebo effect and noted that sufferers of angina seemed particularly subject to placebo-effect. So a special double-blind study was performed. Half of the subjects scheduled for surgery receive the full procedure and the other half received only an incision, opening of the chest cavity and were then sutured and bandaged.

The study showed that there was no difference in the subjective reports of reduction of pain between those receiving the full surgery and those receiving the sham surgery. All of the proclaimed marvelous effects were simply suggestion and it took this constructed means of objective study to demonstrate the lack of merit behind subjective observations.

So a new surgical technique was developed. This time the mammary artery was severed at the distal end and then sutured to a small depression cut into the myocardium. Again the recipients of this procedure proclaimed overwhelming reduction in their chest pain. So the new technique was adopted as the standard treatment.

Years later when some of the recipients of this technique died, autopsies clearly showed that the mammary artery failed to branch out or in any way, increase perfusion to the myocardium. Again, all of the subjective claims of success were false and nothing more than the subjective experience of that which was expected, but not actually delivered.

Note that it's not the chest pain which is the subject of these observations, but the unreliability of subjective conclusions.

Now lets take this a step farther. The La Crosse Team for the University of Wisconsin was enlisted to assist in a study on the performance enhancing capability of superoxygenated water. After being shown a video outlining the mechanism and the successes to date, half of the team received superoxygenated water and the other half received ordinary bottled water. Then they all rand a timed 5K.

Next those who had received superoxygenated water were given ordinary bottled water and the rest were provided with superoxygenated water. Another timed 5K was run and the times compared with the first run. Overall the athletes turned in times 83 to 142 seconds faster after consuming the superoxygenated water, just as the video they had seen suggested.

The point is that there was no superoxygenated water. The athletes expected to perform better and pushed themselves to do exactly that. They did exactly what they expected to do, despite the fact that the water they had consumed came right out of the tap and had no performance enhancing ability.

No then proclaim that anyone's subjective experiences are indicative of reality, especially when their expectations are also support beliefs of extreme desire, is completely bankrupt and contrary to both logic and the evidence.

Again; if a subjective conclusion is devoid of objective support, it's most likely false.

You're welcome to keep trying but you won't change reality. At best you'll change your interpretation of reality but reality will pay you no mind and continue demonstrating you to be wrong.

Sorry -- wrong tags, no edit.

Energy is all around us. When you bring a large group of people with a common purpose together, regardles of that purpose, as long as it is unified, I believe you can harness that energy and the group can actually feel it. I have felt it before.

I've definetely seen it in a religious setting - t's usually the older women who get touched by 'the holy ghost' with a lot of shouting and dancing. As a kid, I didn't understand or apprecitate what they were going through...I went for the entertainment value, and thought that it was funny.
(Except for that one time when I got smacked in the head with a purse of one of the women - I didn't laugh then).

I think in any setting here people gather for worship they will feel the energy that is around them

Can anyone offer any objective measurement of this "energy"? It's best to remember that energy isn't some abstract elusive concept. It's a standard part of the physical world -- matter in another form. So if it's there, it shouldn't be difficult to measure.

So... any takers?

i would have to say tho we got energy yes its not intirely possible for others to eat or "drain it" cause only we are selfs can drain it by using it. now dont get me wrong i dont disagree i just have yet to see proof anough to firmly beleave the theory to be true yet.

I think I need to point out that the existence of this proclaimed "energy" is anything but a theory. In order for anything to be dubbed "theory", it must first be comprised on evidence (and I keep asking but no one seems to have any evidence). Then it must be documented in extremely specific and detailed fashion.

Once documented, it must be tested and that doesn't mean 3 people sitting in a room trying to prove a pet concept is true. It means trained people from multiple fields of science applying ALL of the known pertinent evidence to the proposed concepts of the theory and despite their best efforts, failing to provide any demonstration that the concept violates any of the evidence.

In this particular instance, we have no evidence. We have only assertion. Without evidence you can have no applied science so there has been no objective testing. It really doesn't even qualify as a hypothesis. I think the best categorization would be to file it under superstition, until such time as someone can present some objective evidence so that the relative merit of the concept can be determined. Right now it's just people saying, "yeah, the energy exists", and then bailing the moment you ask for any kind of objective evidence. How is that not exactly the same kind of thing behind the idea that a horseshoe, if mounted properly, can bring more benevolent outcomes or that a black cat or broken mirror can lead to more malevolent outcomes?

It's only reasonable to stamp this "superstition" until cause can be shown to label it as anything else. And since the assertion is concerning energy -- something which is well understood and not the least bit elusive or immeasurable, if objective evidence exists, it should be quite a simple task to produce.

The Parlor Tricks that are used can appear to support those claims.

However that is not possible in an environment that is set for observation, usually from verious angles, in the past these Parlor games were performed for people that where " para normal investigators" , they where duped, and they wrote research papers on the demonstrations as if they were making scientific observations. To the credit of some observers, when they learned of the Ruse.. they denounced the performer (claimed mystic). Yet the ones that still press their findings (based on false setting) I say thief by pretense for every book they sale, I believe that they all should be held accountable for malpractice.. just like the doctors they claim to be an alternative for.. healing enery, pasing static balloons over a person.. shame on such con artist.. and those that claim to be skeptical investigators.. shame on them as well.. feeding off of energy.. yea I understand draining people of their resources..

Where ever there is spiritual worship there is energy. Where ever there are PEOPLE there is energy for that matter. But if you add emotional direction and concentration, well of course you have far more 'energy'. People are focused, you've got vibes all over the place in spiritual/religious arenas.

But just for the record, let's be careful to note that the energy is coming from people; not gods, or angels, or spirits or demons. Just people.

That's subjective :) I am inclined to agree, but I believe there are times...

I think when/if someone can produce a verified instance of the energy coming from other than the people, then the statement would be wrong. As is, it's fully backed by ALL of the available evidence so I don't think it can really be qualified as subjective.

Being backed by all of the available objective evidence pretty much makes a statement objective.

Well, people that believe don't need to prove it.

"Faith is to believe what you do not yet see; the reward for this faith is to see what you believe." -Saint Augustine

Clandestine,

Re: ""Faith is to believe what you do not yet see; the reward for this faith is to see what you believe." -Saint Augustine"

More accurately, "Faith is believing what you want, whether or not there is any reasonable support."

If you dismiss evidence, faith and logic to believe in a god, then you're applying faith -- the denial of reality.


(Armstrong - 2009!)

We could go back and forth on that, Beastt. Thing is, I am happy in my thought process, and encourage your happiness in yours. There's plenty enough room in the world for varied personalities and belief systems :)

Clandestine,

Re: "There's plenty enough room in the world for varied personalities and belief systems :)"

If only that were true. The Crusades, The Salem Witch Trials, The Inquisition, Jim Jones in Guyana, the Branch Davidians at Waco. Even Hitler's slaughter of 6-million Jews was religiously motivated and religiously promoted by the likes of the pope, the heads of the Catholic church and the majority of the religious German populace. Hitler claimed to be carrying on the work of Jesus.

Of course it isn't always direct slaughter. Often it's just slaughter of knowledge and learning. The Christians burning the Library of Alexandria, legislation prohibiting the teaching of evolution, the imprisonment of Galileo, restrictions placed on stem-cell research and churches in general, teaching that new information, especially new information which conflicts with their doctrines, is evil and to be avoided.

Religion has never served to advance people but only to stagnate cultures and muddle logical thought through the insistence that irrational and illogical ideas must be carried through from generation to generation.

Varied personalities are fine. But belief systems begin to become dangerous ground the moment anyone suggests they possess any kind of divine knowledge. And faith, being nothing more than choosing beliefs without the need for logic, evidence and reason; is among the most dangerous practices of man.

If you seek rational understanding of a concept and it still doesn't make sense, then disbelieve it no matter what anyone (including me), tells you. Always utilize the same kind of rational, logical thought in choosing any belief that you would use in deciding whether or not to stop at an intersection or to walk across a foot-bridge over a 1,000-foot gorge. You simply can't go wrong.

Believe what you're told to believe, just because; and you make yourself the victim -- every time.

What can we do about what has happened in the past as far the Inquisition, Crusades, and Witch trials? No one alive today can be blamed for that. Some of us actually do feel that people should have the freedom of belief-system and be left alone. All we can do is move forward. I could make list of glorious Christian contributions to the world, but my faith needs no defense. I am a proud Christian... and belittling the tenants of a religion is against forum rules, so let's not even dance around the lines of doing that.

I get that feeling from just talking about my beliefs the energy flows through me. I have faith as well as belief in something larger then myself. The chemical reaction is due to endorphins released during the process. A pleasant enough feeling and well worth the effort

Mikhail

Well well … interesting how the post snakes n slips but gets back on track …

What we can do about the past is to learn from it and not continue to fall into the same mistakes. And yet, that's just exactly what people seem to do. Religious persecution is not a thing of the past. It's alive and well and functioning right before our eyes.

But more on track, if religious energy actually exists, then this should most certainly in the favor of those who proclaim that it exists. Energy is a purely physical thing. It is simply a second state of matter. E=MC^2 (Energy = Matter, times the square of the speed of light). It's quite simple.

So if the energy exists, measure it. We have numerous ways of measuring energy. Just drive your car under power lines with the radio playing if you don't believe me. Hear the static? That's because the EMF from the power lines is interfering with the weaker carrier of the radio signal. It's energy from one source altering the energy from another source. The altered signal still flows through the amplification circuitry and out to the speakers. Bingo! A rather crude energy detector. Of course different wavelengths require different parameters for the detector to work but that's no problem if you simply utilize scanner circuitry and snip out the resistors which limit the bandwidth.

Yet we never seem to see any success when people attempt to assert that the energy exists. Why might that be?

One might think that if it were against the rules to say anything negative about bananas, the polite and fair thing to do (since such a rule is clearly prejudicial), would be for those who have positive things to say about them to keep them out of the discussion rather than waiving them like some kind of bait.

But that's just my take on it, not everyone's.

any place where a large mass of people are all singing together and acting in harmony. Churches where alot of gospels or hymns are sung, concerts, etc. it's not the words, it's the fact that they all put their emotions and energies behind the lyrics and do it in unision. (just a theory)

yes when people are gathered together it gives off a certain energy, sometimes good, sometimes bad. For example, when at a concert people are jumping, dancing, and singing together and the energy is good, but can sometimes be too much, while in a church it is calming and soothing energy that sometimes people need.

When in a real old church or a grave yard you always feel some sort of energy. I know I have in both.

Nice point …. Most 15th century or before churches are built on pagan sacred ground and with pagan temple stones

Any time people are thinking or physically active, energy is involved. It's produced and utilized by the human body because we are physical entities. But if there is really some special energy in religious situations, then measure it and show it to all like me who doubt such claims. Until then, I'm uncertain as to how anyone would find any cause to believe it exists.

Energy is physical and measurable.

Really old churches and grave yards you always feel energy once you enter them.

i once walked in a grave yard i felt a stranged
cold breze......

ummm it was the holy ghost

Well i gotta agree , when we go to this places you do feel something!

There is a very old grave yard near Brisbane at a place called Toowong. We went there to have a look around and as soon as you walk in you can feel a change. As soon as you leave that change leaves as well.
I have been to a few graves and I only feel different when I have entered a very old grave yard.

This should be easy enough to confirm. All it should take would be a number of very honest friends. You'll need one to make the arrangements and at least one more to carry out the operation.

Tell a friend that you can sense when you're in an old graveyard. Have them come up with several places you can be taken. You'll need to be blindfolded.

Your first friend should understand the whole premise of the experiment and the second friend should have no clue what's going on. The first friend should come up with a list of places which might be mistaken as a graveyard by someone without sight. He should write out the list and give it to your second friend. Your second friend should be instructed to drive you to each of the listed places and then ask you, "is this it"?

You should respond with only a "yes" or a "no". Your response should be noted next to the location on the list. But you can't be told where you are and he can't know what place is the true target. (Double-blind).

After visiting each location, your friend should drive you back to the location where your first friend is and he can then look over the list to see if you really did know when you were at the graveyard and when you weren't. To keep things random, your second friend should be free to drive in circles, take unusual routes and visit any of the places as many times as he wants.

It would be very interesting to see the results.

Even places of power do exist on the planet...

Its researched and enhenced the details by psych research scientists.

I go with the human experience ….

I don’t need scientific attempts to pigeon hole supernatural events.

It might be wise to think about others who have gone with the "human experience"; (AKA: accepted the subjective over the objective.)

Some examples might include athletes who ran faster after consuming "superoxygenated water", sufferers of chronic arm pain who found a new form of acupuncture to provide markedly better relief than a new medication and sufferers of angina pectoris who experienced a dramatic reduction in pain after under-going a surgical procedure in which the mammary artery was ligated to improve blood pressure to the central chest cavity.

Oh! Did I mention that the athletes were drinking ordinary tap-water and only thought it was "superoxygenated water"?

Did I mention that the acupuncture needles were designed to retract and never penetrated the skin?

Did I mention that the medication they were taking was just cornstarch pressed into pill form?

Did I mention that a double-blind study showed that people who thought their mammary artery was ligated experienced just as much pain reduction as those who actually received the full surgery?

There exists hundreds of examples which clearly demonstrate the complete lack of value behind the "human experience". Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to prevent people from dismissing the objective in favor of the subjective, even though the subjective (without objective confirmation), is routinely demonstrated to be completely wrong.

If the energy is there it can be measured. In that it has never been objectively measured, there is but one objective conclusion.

How I see it is that religious energy has little to do with religion itself. The energy it creates is a result of the beleif the people gathered have. It's the same for any massive amount of people. I'll admit I used to get it when I was young and I was Christian, especially during worship. This is because there was a mass of people all singing the same words and pouring out thier emotions to God. I believe this is the same thing as the energy you feel while dancing at raves. You become one with the music and the people and pour out all your emotion. Either way you're freeing yourself from all your pent up feelings. It's just that religion does it for a diety, or maybe an individual's alterior motive and raves do it for the music, PLURR, or the one you're dancing with.

If you haven't gone to a rave, I highly suggest it. I've been doing it for about a year and a half now and it has become sort of a religion for me. If there's anyone in AZ that wants to go, send me a message. I'll be more than happy to go with you and show you what it's like and what it can offer. And if you're not in AZ... Let me know anyways. I'd love to rave in a different place.

I agree with this last post. I feel that the euphoric energy that you feel during a religious gathering can happen when any group of people is gathered and zealous about what they're doing. It's the rush of endorphins and a love for what you are celebrating or worshiping.

I think the last two posts have pretty well illustrated what is being spoken of when some assert the idea of "religious energy". It's not energy, it's simply strong emotion. It's level of emotion that can drive people to commit suicide, to sacrifice their loved ones, to roll on the ground and proclaim they're possessed and promote many other behaviors simply based on the emotional involvement of devout belief.

It's not "energy". I'm not sure if it can be said that the majority of people really understand what that word means. If it were energy, it would be easily detectable. It's just emotionalism.

Churches honestly would be the main place for religious energy.

This thread has been automatically closed for length.