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I would assume that if I have the points yet I do not click "Update Your Status" then I can permanently remain a level 4 and not need to worry about induction.

I am also assuming this is the game that most play until they pop into the coven they seek.

Turning off the "Update your Status" works against one of the primary ideals of hierarchy here.


Thoughts?

its kinda like bending the rules? but i guess it would stop force induction? but also would stop ya accessing other features within VR

It may be bending the rules, But I could give a rats arse if it is I refuse to go into a coven that I dislike immensly. So I stay as is till the big day.

All it takes to get into the coven you want is a little coordination with the Coven Master. Let them know when you think you are ready to level up so you are online at the same time. Then when you Update, the CM will see it first and induct you immediately.

You can still fall out with your CM. Just DON'T update after lvl 4

I know how to do it, and frankly, it's not my style.. I'll walk where my path takes me and own every piece of sand under my foot. My presence defines the ownership of the air I breathe and who I share it with.


The question was not about how, moreso.. what are the thoughts from this society on this, how often does it happen, and with induction being a large part of the mantra, why is your status not updated periodically, or on sign-on?

I did it until I was ready to enter the coven of my choice. Nothing wrong with it and really it isn't bending the rules. No where in the manual does it state you MUST update your status.

I'm level 27 and haven't updated in months --- nor do I plan to any time soon . I like where i'm at .

Odd, I would have figured on a whole slew of people opposing the very nature of the hierarchical society.

yes indeed that is a smart way of avoiding covens.

you can always ask to be removed once your forced into a coven. they cant force you to stay. sure its rude to induce you without your permission but its malicious to make you stay against your will.

Personally,I think its like draft evasion.If you are so worried about it why dont you start lookiing into covens now and poswsibly make prior arrangements so when you are ready to update,you can be in one you like.

before you get to level 5 just find a CM and ask them to give you their mark? if you want to be in their coven i shouldnt see why they would refuse?

Well I was under the impressions according to the manual that you have to be in a Coven or house to be marked by them that only the Prince can mark someone or anyone I should say in or out of a Society... So I do not see how that would help. you can post on your profiles that you are promised to a coven or house and usually no one grabs you...

That does'nt always work either just because your have it in your profile that your promised to a coven does'nt mean the others can't nab you.

Essentially, not updating is a way to buy yourself time to investigate covens and houses and petition one you might like to join.

I would say that by never joining a society you are limiting your VR experience. While forced induction exists and is practiced and some have issue with it, most people enjoy the society that they're in.

I read earlier where someone wrote that a House or Coven Master can't hold you if you don't wish to be in their society. That is incorrect. Once in a society it is up to the discretion of the Society's Master whether they trade you or release you or blind you, etc. I've found most people to be reasonable unless you come at them with angry entitlement.

I really don't get the big deal made about forced induction. It only holds the power you afford it. The truth of the matter is that all your being "forced" into is having a small rectangular graphic on your profile.

I do understand what your saying, But I will be damned if I am gonna join a coven I dislike.If that was to happend I wouldnt do a thing to help and I may result in getting a new profile and start again. I think covens are nice yes, But most are a popularity contest and I DETEST them.

Honestly, I think maybe you're mistaken as to their function. I'm sure there is some of that. However there's some of that even if you're not in a house or coven.

It seems defeating to say that you definitely will be against something that you're not really sure about..or that every coven will offer you nothing but trouble. Most people develop friendships with people in their society faster..as it's a more personal surrounding.

I think that the word "forced" causes most people to view it negatively. I would look at it as...out of almost 14,000 people..this group noticed me and thought enough of what I've said about myself that they want to get to know me.

I think it's all in perception and whether you choose to enjoy the good points of a situation or not.

i seriously doubt there are many people who care if you update and move up or not.

i believe that you have that kind of attitude, you wouldn't be good house/coven material anyway, so it makes it easier on everyone that you just stay where you are.

you don't get inducted, and other people don't have to deal with you in their society.

it's a huge win win

These societies help to breed new interaction. Great leaders will surround themselves with great men. You want diversity, but diversity which will interact, not attack.

I just don't really understand why people join groups which don't suit themselves.

Why join VR if you don't want to participate, and you want it your way, when this is obviously a set structure.

You don't have to update... just know that every once in a while, Cancer turns on the automatic status update at log in :P

Once a coven force inductions a member, they are likely to suffer from a disgruntled inductee.. the decision they make, may bog them down.

Thing is, neither of them have to care. The inductee is free to ignore and not care, the Master is free to ignore and not care. It's pretty simple.

The thing about a disgruntled abductee..is that they hang themselves.

I've always been willing to work with someone who says," You know...I'm really just not happy here and I'm interested in such and such a coven." They're being mature and trying to resolve a conflict. They usually end up where they want to be.


When I get the message that says, "Eff you, you heinous scag..put me back where you found me right now blah blah fire and brimstone blah blah"?

That person stays until they rot or until I'm done thoroughly driving them insane. They're angry. I'm amused. It works.

I've never understood that whole philosophy of throwing a tantrum when you don't get your own way.

Well...maybe when I was 2. Last I checked though, Cancer doesn't allow toddlers to sign up.

but if that's the case, then that coven master could blind the member and block him/her and refuse to trade them and keep them as a favor who...'scuse me...a favor slave.

It would be sad, but could happen.

Personally, seeing peeps evade getting abducted into a society doesn't bother me...

but occasionally I have seen my status change without manually updating, so don't think that will be a permanent solution...

start checking out covens or houses and see which one you might enjoy most and try to coordinate their coven master or assistants to snag you when you do make level 5 ;)

Its an easier way to enjoy your VR viewing experience :P

People should vounteer for Purgatory. They don't bother anyone. Your free to do whatever you want on the site (within ToS) without any harrassment. No one ever gets blinded either.

I was curious about induction, and allowed myself to be snapped up by a new coven. It was okay, but I wanted more. Even though the CM had posted a rant indicating he would trade members out, and that we should let him know our desires, he wasn't gracious about it when I did exactly that. I had two houses interested, but he traded me to a coven of his choice. He made his point that he was playing a limited scope power game here on VR where I didn't matter: the vampire way, baby. Didn't make me angry, found it curious, but it all worked out splendidly in the end. If it hadn't, I would have grown bored and left.

I was messaged when I hit level 4 by a certain coven Master...his coven sounded intriguing and certain promises were made...however much to my dismay once I got in, no one talked, and the forums went off on such tangents that I was not able to follow or make any intelligent responses. I messaged the CM and asked nicely to be traded..and I got turned down lol...so much for the polite approach! Ended up deleting and starting all over again. This time I found a happy place and am staying put.
But I do agree, it is best to search and find a place that suits you before you level up. It's a pain in the arse to start from scratch.

It doesn't really matter what you do, someone is always going to be angry. You can't please everybody. Someone will be angry that you want to leave. Someone will be angry that you don't want to join. And it's all because they can't grow up and realize that this is just a site. Whatever. I know Cancer doesn't allow toddlers on the site but there are those disguised as adults that every seems to miss until it's too late. lol. If you want to stay at a level 4 then be my guest but you're missing out on some stuff..... :P

Another way to escape forced induction is to communicate with the CM of a coven you want to be part of. Both covens I was part of were non- force induct (Burning Flames was until covens were shut down a month or so ago because of the Sire downgrades). It's recommended to check out the covens before you reach Caitiff. You don't always have a choice, but it can help if you don't ebd up in the coven you wanted as quite a few force induct.

My experience was good when it came to my induction.I was being considered by two at the same time,got inducted into the one I didnt want to be in,but with a little talk it was quickly taken care of..been there ever since.So it isnt all bad you know.

I would think it would promote a healthy, and diverse societal structure.

You'd think that but it's not necessarily true. lol. Diverse, yes... but it can only really be a healthy thing if all others want to be there and participate. If the forums are dead and everyone hates it then what you have is just a perverse imitation of a society in which nobody likes each other and problems are created for the rest of VR.

Well i was forced inducted twice , found a coven i loved was traded, went all to hell, was traded again, and now I love where I am, have the option at Sire status to leave if I wanted to, but I don't want to.

I have no coven pride and for reasons that I'll not express here or anywhere else. That's between me and the CM if I can ever get him to message me again. But if you're in a coven that you hate, then why should you even pretend to have any type of pride in it what-so-ever? It's not fair to the other coven members who might actually like it and have real pride because then you're just lieing to them.

Well now that is a great point, and at this point i really don't care who gets pissed off.. Ok so your in a coven and you hate it drama central back stabbing what ever, and some one offers a trade for you,, and a fair trade, and then you are blinded. what is the point to that. I really don't understand that what so ever. So you keep people because they want to leave, why not just trade them or release them, ok blinding for no participation, yup sure i can definitly see that, we have that here, but to be in a coven you hate. hmm people are finding reasons to want to leave VR with Premium accts because of that, Its pretty sad. And people talk about loyalty to their coven families . hmm. There are many mnay mnay great Covens and Houses, some have debanded and some have been here from the start. I guess, my point is do you research, before you reach induct level.

I'll hit Catiff in 2 hours.. and I personally am not avoiding any induction. I'll take what comes and make my way.

I'll enable my will in the right way for the good of self. I am only here to rape you all of intellectual conversation and self gain.

I want to learn more about everything, and I learn from question/answer.. debate... structured arguments... conversation.

If I need to leave a Coven, I'll will it.. and I'll will it with success.

The post was originally just, how do you all feel about people avoiding it.

I've had trades offered for me time and again but they'd rather keep me blinded. And it's for a personal reason at that, not even VR related. That's another thing about inductions. Be friendly but try not to get too friendly. If you get too personal with them, it may come back to bit you in the ass.

Holy cripes - I'm not avoiding my update....

I was pissed thinking about other people doing that. Disrespecting the societal structure of a web community they 'choose' to participate with.

Man had me steamed, I'm NOT asking how to avoid it...

silly people.. I've said this a few times now... silly as in funny.. not the condescending tone (that I really meant) ;)

You can avoid it up to a point. You can hate it all you want. You will get people stating how they feel - good and bad. What's the point? Like Nista said.... you'll have a rectangular image on your page. You don't have to do anything you don't want to do if you are inducted. Deal or don't deal. Stop whining.

Look here is the sad truth. If you are a level 4, probably not many people know of you and probably not many people care whether or not you want to be a part of their coven or not. People get to know you and begin to care about you when they have a chance to interact with you in some form or fashion.

The higher levels are much more attractive for induction purposes. If anything it does the new member a favor to be inducted somewhere because I have found that most covens and Houses are willing to go to great lengths to help new members either by helping with profiles, meeting new friends, contests or just having fun in general. If you want to sit in the corner and piss and moan about how nobody will ever understand you... fine, have fun alone: if anything it provides new material for your leather-bound book of emo/gothy poetry right?

And if you get inducted into a society you dont like, most will release or trade you if you ask nicely and follow rules and act like a civilized human being (or vampire or wolf or friggin woodland faerie, or whatever). If they don't release you...big deal, ignore it, its just like not being there anyway.

It's common sense really.

So ... does it bother you, or are you indifferent that people bend the societal rules of the society they choose to join?

Still confused.. but you seemed indifferent.

SEVENN EDIT: To the contrary, I am not indifferent at all, but I wont despair the silliness of such minor choices. A few people THINK they are bending the rules and getting away with a grand display of rebellion and free will. They are mistaken. This is a vampire site, and free will here is an illusion. Cancer controls every aspect of this site including member levels and status updates. He designed the hierarchy and I actively enforce it, so no, I am not indifferent, simply realistic.

The thread title speaks for itself, 'Induction escape'. You're eaither looking to escape induction, or you're looking for ways of dealing with it once inducted. How is the thread going off topic?

You speak as though members are taking the thread off topic, when you act as though you still have control of the threads course. You are a cocky SOB aren't you?

When you join the site you accept the rules and policies of the site. If inducted and you don't like the society you are with, you can request to be traded. Not all societies will honor your requests. Do I like it, do they like it, do you like it? More often than not, no. But you agreed to the terms of this sites societies policies when you joined. If you didn't read through the site thorough enough to know this before joining, this is your problem (a sure sign of your own ignorance), deal with it!

If you're held in a society you choose not to be in and you really didn't want to be in a society anyway, then ignore it. Look at the bright side... If you can't be traded, then you won't end up in another socity you don't want to be a part of. Just enjoy the site, what it has to offer, and try to make friends. People will always try to find ways to bend the societal rules, but in the end most will fail.

As for status update... All profiles used to be updated on login. Now only Sires status is updated on login and other members must update manually, unless, (as stated above) "...every once in a while, Cancer turns on the automatic status update at log in."

In the end (for yourself or anyone it might apply to), if you are so miserable you can't bear to be in a society you didn't choose to be in, or you feel the site is not the place for you, the answer is simple. Go to 'Edit profile', and scroll to the bottom of the profile and choose the, delete profile option. (Be sure to say good bye first, so we can celebrate!) :P

Original forum post:

Archide
Caitiff (5)
Posts: 77

Member of The Coven of Blackened Hearts
Induction Escape
Posted: 09:27:56 - Oct 17 2008
Times viewed: 353

I would assume that if I have the points yet I do not click "Update Your Status" then I can permanently remain a level 4 and not need to worry about induction.

I am also assuming this is the game that most play until they pop into the coven they seek.

Turning off the "Update your Status" works against one of the primary ideals of hierarchy here.


Thoughts?



Nista reply:

Yes. It does seem to work against the idea of induction. You can't induct someone who doesn't have the "induct" box by their name.

Cancer evens the odds by occasionally auto updating things every so often. So it buys individuals a bit of time to try and get their ducks in a row..but it still doesn't thwart the society system.

Any time there is a rule...people will try to figure out a way around the rule. Some get away with it..most do not.

This thread, from my understanding of reading the initial post, was simply meant to ask opinions about whether not updating was cheating the system or not...not because someone was for or against forced induction.



:) We just took it willy nilly through its tangent courses...and now can maybe find our way back.

This sort of thing has been going sinceI have been on the site. People will start looking at covens/houses when they first join the site to find the one they feel they want to be in.

They will then use the first levels to get to know the CM and coven members as this help once get into the coven.

As for people not levelling up so they pick their coven, so what let them do that if they wish I have no problem with it.

the question really is, how can we tell is a member is trying to stay below the radar? And is it in the rules saying that you must level up? I never saw that rule, but if I am wrong, please correct me. I guess it could work, but I never saw it happening or heard about it. I was force inducted into my first coven, and I loved it, although it has been disbanded. (RIP Stone Guardians) The concept is new to me, but I'm not surprised that it would me thought of.

I dont think you should want to stay out of a coven....even if it is forced induction, covens help you and are an essential part of VR

I dont think anyone could say it any better than Sevenn did.

Sevenn - Thanks for the response within my post. That was more of what I was getting at. Just a feel for how people view those actions.

The rating schemes, and avoidance/complaining about Covens people are in is completely contradictory to what Cancer originally set up.

I was trying to get a good feel for how many people felt as I did.

I personally never thought about escaping induction. I have met many new wonderful people by inductions and am proud of all the ovens I have been in. I say give it a try and see what happens.

I, personally, don't really like any of the covens I've been in so far. I was ACM of a few but none of them are active. It's too boring so what's the point. If I could get out of it, I would. But my coven master wants my level and favor so he refuses to let me go.

I myself am in several covens under several names / profiles (all Prem) and well I have not had any trouble and I feel it is a place to be till you reach Sire then do what ya want LOL alot of the Societies have competions and games that is what I like about them

Grant it there are a few EGO Masters on here but what they gonna do reach through the screeen and rattle your chain.. LOL do not think so.

I'm sure you can! Especially until you can get a CM to give you the mark of your coven of choice.

Sounds like a plan to me. I have been traded several times until I got to the Coven I am at now.
Working on moving up in the levels.

Indeed this is true. As long as you don't click 'update your status' you can remain at one level indefinitely. This isn't really going against the whole heirarchy system of VR; it's simply delaying it.

You can get around any rule you please. But why bother? Its all part of the fun. I was a forced induction-so what-luv my house we have fun.

I hardly ever click on Update Status because of the reset & I lose posts I know it will take me down a level since I don't get the chance to post on here as much as I used to. And I am already in the coven I wanted to be in so I don't have to worry about that.

Good point BTL. It is part of the fun on this site. Induction is a good thing. As for trying to avoid it, why would anyone want to. I made some really good friends since joining my coven.

Personally I am indifferent to people holding back until they find a coven of their own choice.

Induction is part of the game - we will get you in the end

I love VR and am happy with the rules as they are. If the rules change, I am sure the one who is allowed to change them will keep everyone in mind.

That is correct, you will stay at that level until you update and I honestly do not feel that many members do that. Most members are smart enough to take the time before they hit level 5 to check out the societies main pages and/or speak to some of the members. Get a feel to where they may wish to go and then message the CM about wanting to join.

Personally I wouldn't want anyone with a bad attitude in my coven. Also anyone I may induct ALWAYS has the opportunity to tell me if they wish to leave and I will accommodate them. But if they get all pissy with me I might decide to teach them a lesson first as is my prerogative. A good attitude goes a long ways.

Well said Petal. there is no need for someone to stroppy about induction. If they feel they don't fit into the coven, then they approach the CM and either try to resolve an issues they have, or ask to be traded out. There is no need for having a bad attitude as a negative approach normally returns negative results.

just search around for a coven that has alot of friends of yours in it, plan ahead, then when you update tell them

I was approached by a coven master & told to do this.... I was so new on the site I did not know anything about covens or how to research really as I had advanced to level 4 in just a few days. I was quite unhappy once inducted and when approached by another coven I wanted to move. The coven master agreed but was not very nice about it.

I have been warned about up dating my status. Its quite usefull as i would like an oppertunity to look around everywhere first. Equally I think its nice to be able to update status manually as its always a nice suprise when you click the button and you've grown. :)

Even if you're inducted you don't have to take part in coven activity

I do like the idea of the Status Update being turned on at log-in every now and then. Keeps you on your toes.

So many people join VR and aren't really aware of the protocol. They get force inducted and kick about it. A lot of problems could be avoided, or lessened a great deal, by a thorough read-through of the VR Manual when you first join.

Personally i think doig this defeats the entire purpose of this site...this is a social website where people come to meet others and even if its forced induction the coven will most likelly have at least one or two people that you connect with...and if you truly dont like the coven you end up in I have never met a CM that would deny trading you unless you do something to really offend them

SEVENN EDIT: Actually, this site's primary purpose and function is as a database to catalogue all things about the vampire. The social networking aspect is something Cancer developed for the large number of people who hit the database and then wanted to interact. All of the social systems were set up because of his care and concern (my words) for the goth/vampire community.

Not true.. I know plenty of Cm's that do that

FTS - Nice answer to the original question..

Yes I think it opposes the nature of the induction selection as well.

you wouldnt be able to do all the things like the chat and stuff.
if that doesnt bother youu, then why not.?
if you dont really want to be in one..

I have never had an issue with induction... And if you don't want to be inducted maybe you should go coven/house shopping... That's what I did when I first joined. Talk to a few members and CM/HM's and make a decision.

Or you can stay a level 4 till you are automatically updated at sign in one day and are inducted into a society you don't want to be in....

In the end I think my way of handling induction is about as good as it gets. Coven masters and House masters do not have to trade anyone they don't want to trade and if you have an issue with that then they can blind you and keep you till you're sire. Then you can leave if you want.

If I get inducted without wanting to I can always delete my profile and re do another one and start all over again.. I don't care in the least.

I can sort of understand where the people who are AGAINST forced inductions are coming from, I was forced inducted into my last Coven, was a little angry to start off with...
But I gave it a chance and the people were so nice!

It's really not worth throwing a tantrum and being rude to the CM or other members of the coven. Where exactly is that going to get you?

Give it a chance, if you don't like it. Talk to your CM or ACM. Make sure you show respect though, no ones going to respond nicely to being told off and that the Coven sucks or whatever= Say hello to Purgatory! lol

I am no way being rude.. I am just being honest. Like I said I could give a rats arse about covens. I don't like them and I am not into popularity contest.

Well in response to the post above mine, if that so happens to be the case, then perhaps you don't understand the concept of the site as a whole, and therefore, should probably consider hitting that good ol' delete profile button, or just deal with it when it happens.

...By the way, I am completely on Sevenn's and Bones' side on this topic.

Excuse me?

I don't understand? Well let me set you straight. I do understand I was once here a long time ago and in a coven and I hated it and hated the fact that I was inducted. And another thing I will not delete cause you think it is a good idea. I will delete my profile when I feel I need to.

So now do you still think I don't understand?

Hmm, so I am meant to believe that since you didn't like being in a coven before, you stopped using that account, created another and simply just expect that if you stay at level 4 or less, you wouldn't have to deal with it? So what, pray tell, would be your plan if Cancer turns on the Auto-Update, and you end up at level 5? are you just going to keep making new accounts each time? It would completely defeat the purpose of the site. And by purpose, I mean how this site is deliberately set up in the fashion of a vampire hierarchy.

Everyone here has an interesting opinion on this subject, however its simpler than anyone will admit because they think they must follow the rules. Update your status as much as you want to simply because you have the right to deny any and every coven of your membership. You cannot be forced to stay. I know this because I was forcibly induced three times, and each time I had myself removed from the coven. All I had to do was message the coven master and say I do not want to be in your coven or any other coven. However, if you don't want to update then don't ....there is no rule against it.

Being forced to do ANYTHING you object to is wrong, it shows no respect for the individual.

This site is set up to mirror Vampire hiarchy.... it is what it is.... the rules or guidelines or whatever you wish to call them are meant to reflect that. To rant & carry on about it is silly. Forced induction simply represents being changed.... a vampire's victim (for lack of a better word) doesn't always have a choice on who changes them. For those who are so against the way this site is set up as far as inductions, there are other vampire sites that do not have a society or statust type set up.

True there are other sites, But I like this one cause the friends I have are awesome and the site is much better set up and more informative..

This thread seems to be going around in circles and getting nowhere.

here are the rules of induction on vr

Induction


Induction into any House or Coven is forced. You do not have a choice as to whether or not you will be a member of a House/Coven. An exception to this rule are members who hold the rank of Sire. A Sire cannot be forcibly inducted. A Sire can join any House/Coven (with the Master's permission) and leave any House/Coven at any time. A Sire can also start their own Coven.

Your Master can sell or trade you to another House/Coven. You do not have a choice if you will be sold or traded.

Induction Requirements

A perspective inductee must meet the following:

# Be at least level 5 (Caitiff)
# Be free of affiliation
# Not be a Sire.
All Houses/Covens are limited to 5 inductions per 24 hour period.

If you do not understand the underlying concepts behind forced induction you should not be a member of Vampire Rave.