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I'm not very goth myself in that I don't wear only black or purple and no make up or even style my hair but I'm in to all things dark and different and I listen to the music so I'm not sure if I could call myself goth or not and so I ask what is it that makes you goth?

Nothing makes the person goth. It is society that stereotypes them into said category.

i agree you are you...an individual...society just wants to clump people into different categories...i have been told that i'm goth, also been told i'm emo & of course that i'm a vampire...this all comes from the way i dress & what music i listen too...i just let people call me what they want because that is how they want to be...i refuse to classify myself other than me :)

from what i know, it's far more about the state of mind than how you look.

one of the gothic writers that started off in the 90s, he goes by rabbit, but i have never seen this man wear black and i've known him since i was 16 and that was a long time ago.

What makes me goth is being who I am on the inside,displaying the real me.Its something I don't have to hide and I am not going to hide.

I choose no title to categorize myself as, Im just dark, I dont care for the gothic title, guess if I did fall into a form of classification it would be Industrial, by society standards..

I like some of the clothing, and I like dark eye makeup
Does this make me Goth?

No, if I like it I buy it.

I am not even making a statement it is just how it looks on me
and it does'nt mean that is all of the clothing I buy is Goth.

Shame people judge someone on what they wear.

I don't really think that you can describe a person as goth-oh certainly people do but because it is easier to say "that goth kid" rather than "that kid with a flare for goth aesthetics." Labeling people legitimately is a trickier thing than objects and ideas and so I usually reject the intimate liberties taken. I don't believe that you can label yourself either. Once you do you become an actor, feigning a part, automatically the label is inaccurate, worthless. Therefore we do not have power over the labels we are given, we can play the part but rarely is anyone fooled. Our true natures are sure to emerge even if we refuse to acknowledge that fact and play on. We can't see the whole picture. But others do and therefore only the vaporous "they" wield the power to bestow a proper label.

according to someone in another thread, nothing can make one goth...goths no longer exist.

yeah i was amused as well.


what makes me goth (yes, ill use the title proudly) is my love of the darkside. i root for the vampires to win when i watch movies, i love to wear dark fashions from the victorian era, i enjoy music that has darker lyrics, etc.

but then i also own my own coffin (everyone needs a coffin-table...yes) so what can i say?
lol

~W~

I disagree that accoutrement make one goth. It's an attitude. What makes me goth? My innate nomadic nature and aptitude for harrying the Roman Empire ;)

State of mind. Everything else seems to follow.As I posted elsewhere, everyone veiws goth in their own way-and, as some of you here have stated, categorizes. If you wear vests and paisley and stetsons, people will say your a cowboy, even if your not. I don't wear dark man-make-up but I do dress dark, and have many interests in what some might consider dark subjects-paranormal, heavy and industrial music, horror movies, etc. While that certainly doesn't indicate Goth, I consider myself such because thats what Goth represents to me. However, I never tell people I'm Goth; I don't have to...They usually ask me if I am. To which I usually respond, "Are you not?"

which of my statements is the interesting one Aizen?


some think being goth is an attitude....what attitude is it that is exclusive to the goth?

(but yes, id say sacking rome is pretty definitive!) lol.

goth is a subculture. its about music, its about fashion...but attitude?

ive seen the same attitudes come from rappers, cowboys, goths, and metal heads.
prolly find that attitude in big band zoot suiters if i knew any still alive.
~W~

It is funny how a few of this audience seem a bit insulted by stereotypes, but if we called someone a differant stereotype, it may be seen as a compliment if they are trying to be that stereotype and the provocation nailed them.

If all a person has one outfit that is drab, and they wear it when they plan to be around people who dress drab.. they likely have a " punk" costume in the same drawer.

Strip a Goth down, and he/ she will still be goth.

The difference between followings trend, and being an acylote of a sub- culture.

Too often individuals that are novices to a sub-culture are reluctant to admit novice status, sadly they represent themselves to others as geniuine
and often perpetuate trend stereotypes.

This Is a matter for most sub-cultures that are have sprouted trend factions.

dabbler, you're totally right. a rookie goth won't admit that they are new to this. but all the goths that are longer in the fang than two years can spot them a mile away. like the girl in the manson shirt with the messy black lipstick trying to get me to play korn because they are on the soundtrack to queen of the damned and that is "SO GOTH". yeah right. and yes that really happened about a week ago.


but at the same time, i know someone that if you looked at him you would never think that he was a goth, and yet he knows more about the music and the culture than most people that say that they are goths.

I phrase it as " Custom, vs Costume. In California most established subcultures are represented, yet only a fraction of those that would appear to be " in" any subculture are actually " in". This includes Hippy, Hip Hop, Rave, Punk, Metal, Skater, Stoner, Grundge etc.

Trendsters however are often more expressive then those actually emerged in the culture, they are more about expecting people to react to their appearance too. They speak more about how " people just can't accept me for who I am." When they encounter acolytes they phish for intel, to present as a script for later encounters.

In a way such individuals are a subculture of their own.. Trendsters..Poseur.

Being goth is a choice of mind and body.

i dont put a label on myself-other ppl do it for me. i am just being myself so if that makes me goth then so be it.

My interest for dark things, my interest for many things that are outside the 'norm' and the feeling of being a fish out of the water everywhere I go.

However this is partially myself, there are lot of other things which make me, as me and not just one thing.

being goth can either be a state of mind and body, or it can be a cagatory place upon you by others

Pretty much being dead or stuck in the 80s makes you a goth... since goth only existed in the 80s (lol the middle ages and such don't count. Silly Germans).

I think it is crazy to limit yourself to a group of people if you will because I think everyone will agree with me when I say that yes.. Alot of us have simular taste in clothes or lifestyles or music.. But if you guys are anything like me.. You are a lil bot of everything you haev walked through in life.. You cannot be limited to one certin lable.. I am content with just being what i am.. ME.. and nothing else.. Cause come on.. Anyone can try to immitate a "Goth" Or an "Emo" But no one can be you...

"Being goth can either be a state of mind and body, or it can be a cagatory place upon you by others."

They are one and the same. Once someone places said category on you, you are automatically manipulated to create that state of mind and mayhaps body from the suggested thought from the categorization.

To me being goth is a state of mind more then just having on all black clothing ect, we see the world in a different light rather than looking at life through rose tinted glasses we tend to love the darker aspect of life hence we go toward what others fear. I tend to always look for the hidden truth in life.

I thoroughly agree with thebatt...its more of a state of mind than anything.

What makes anyone a goth, really? Perhaps leaning toward what some consider dark and not exactly 'mainstream', however the same thing can be said to those who are 'punk'. I don't believe I am goth, though I am not what most consider normal.

*They are one and the same. Once someone places said category on you, you are automatically manipulated to create that state of mind and mayhaps body from the suggested thought from the categorization.*

maybe just cause someone categorizes you and u "Automatically change into said category." but dont go telling me what happens to me if somebody categorizes me. just lately somebody told they thought i was emo and they had no reason to think that. if they knew me they would kick their own ass for sayin that. hmm...hmmmm.....

What I mean is, when they put the suggestive thought into your head, your mind argues and may come to its senses in pondering as to why they suggested the stereotype to begin with, thus your mind takes another look at your physical features and draws its conclusion(s) from there.

i see. kind of like psychology play

Stereotyping is the alter ego of self actualization. You tell me what to where, and I may do the exact opposite just to mess with your head.

"You can do it your own way, if it is done just how I say." ~Metallica

Well states SS.. A break thru.. By anyother name..

" Reverse psycology, no problem.. but can you Parallel park psycology?"

not in this unparallel universe, lol.

To me i like the way I dress . But if anyone knows Goth is an agraculture . It a lifestyle . Most people think it is the way we look . Its not . Look at history gothic churches .Gothic art ,gothic design . Its a lifestyle . Like american ,canadian ,victorian . Simply a lifestyle not a look lable for us .

Hmmm, i think goth is a state of mind! I think it shows through your personality even if you are not into wearing black etc (personally i love black) but even if i wear another colour people still look sideways at me, like they have some sort of built in radar for anyone slighty different lol :)

i discovered from this thread that there is nothing that can make you a goth.
me...i just like to explore my dark side, listen to a darker shade of music and enjoy wearing victorian dress.

but nope,....not a goth. i apparently am a cowboy. they said i can be a cowboy..but not a goth.
LOL
~W~

what makes me goth.....
reading bad poetry in a cemetery in candlelight while drinking cheap vampire wine and pining about how my lace frilled shirt got ripped
wait.....no......oh yeah it was just finding beauty in the darker side of life

No what makes one a goth is being born to a tribe in sweden before the second century...

I wear all black, black make-up, chains, spikey dog collars........i scare the SHIT out of people

I am Goth, therefore I am.

I Was Goth Before it Became Popular , I,m 47 , Its A state Of mind And your Beliefs It had nothing to do with how you look or wear makeup or Dress.

Dark 666 you assume people are scared of you..

Interesting..

well if there was a stereotype I was to be catagorized under I would love to be stereotyped Goth But I agree with SS on this subject.

I agree it's a state of mind. I do love the culture and black and all that but that's just me. Most would categorize me as being goth, emo, etc but I like to consider myself unique as I don't really like labels. As I always tell the ones that label me (and really piss off some of them) that I'm unique and not a soup can. Lol. But I just enjoy the culture and the clothing styles of many things.

I'm goth because society says I am 20% of the time.

Seriously . . .

My fav color is pink, I collect barbies & I look like the typical "soccer mom". When the mood hits and I dress in black society calls me goth.

Goth isn't a way you dress.
Goth isn't wearing weird make-up.
Goth isn't acting depressed or sad all the time.

Goth is just a way someone is. They don't choose to be that way, because then you aren't truly gothic.
It is a lust for darkness, for older styles.

Society has chosen to call someone who wears black goth. That isn't my problem.

Goth is in your choice of life style.

I dont think anything really makes a person goth. People dress how they want and they do things that they like to do, not caring what other people think or say about them.

Its other people, like the preps and everyone else, that are stereotypical and they say we are goth just because we dont dress a certain way, or we wear black almost all the time or some stupid nonsense like that.

No one is goth, goth is, to me, a genre of music. Just like emo isnt a stereotype, its a a type of music.

I have to agree with vvSoulshroudevv. Individuality in a modern society makes others perceive you as either a Goth or Emo. One doesn't have to wear black or purple, have dog collars or even piercings or tattoos, to live a life of individuality. Same could be said about the Vampyre Stereotype too.

I love everything about it. I wear Gothic fashions, I decorate my home in Gothic style and I practice Pagan Arts.
So yes I deem myself to be gothic.

Society doesn't label people Goth, it's with in ones self.
I know plenty of people that appear to look Goth, but when asked if they are they say No, I just like the look, which doesn't make them one.
If you dressed like a monk, does that make you a monk????

How YOU choose to live your lifestyle.
If you dress, talk and act like a cowboy, then you're a cowboy.

Goth doesn't have to be all dark and gloomy. If you know how it can be quite sensual.

I do indeed tend to wear only 3 colours, black white and red but not for a scruffy effect, I prefer to wear suits.

There is also my interests in blades and gothic ornaments and such go towards it.

My reading of aethist and satanic material.

All this, and my ex-boss still said I seemed much more clean cut than my friends. More of a "Normal" person.

Not a big fan of the term goth though although gothic as a description is fine by me.

I've never actually reffered to myself as 'goth'.I do wear black and /or red 90% of the time,I love horror&my taste in music is definitely considered unique in my neighborhood.Kids began calling me 'goth' in high school.I never embraced nor denied it.I prefer not to label myself.

To me a Goth is to surrender to the Dark, they do and they almost always come back.

It's a trust thing and not one to be abused...

honestly...i dont know. i feel it deeply inside of me.
i do like dark things..."dark writers" (poe, lovecraft, lumley), dark music (from bauhaus to static x), to my love of gargoyles, and the coffin in my music room.

ive never had my hair black, and only occasionally wear black, but still...

im a goth.
dont like it?

dont really care. lol
~W~

A surrender to the dark?
Never.

Not to say you are all wrong and im all right, but to me, I have always viewed goths- the true indivuals, not the "posers"- are the strongest people on Earth.

We take the criticization from everyone else, and refuse to change. Refuse to be a part of what society has become. We have moved others, and they decided that we were worth trying; or at least accepting.

I don't dress goth but I love anything dark, morbid, mysterious and different. I also have an open mind to things...I think that's an important part of being goth. :)

well said mikey and vampchica, well said!

a large part of it is the ability to say i dont really care what you think, added to a love of the morbid.

those two things combined make a pretty good definition for me.
~W~

.. What is it that makes you goth?

Identifying with certain attributes.. A sense of Goth - ness. Awareness of self..

We can set this occasional myth to rest..

I am relieved that it was only apparently trendsters that attempt to make it a "fact".

Is Goth Synonomous with belief in the occult?


Yes 7 12.73 %
No 48 87.27 %

just because you don't wear all black or you have friends doesn't mean that your not goth. goth is a state of mind and a life style in which you are into the ocult and your are a dark person you and you don't go with the trend in things you are different but you are still unique in your own way.

That is perfect!

The best answer in my eyes:
What is it that makes you goth?

My ability to be who I was born to be.
Someone who stands out.

I don't care what goth really is or that it's a stario type...really whatever, everyone groups other by type we all know we shouldn't but it's a learned trait.
What makes me goth? It started in third grade when my mom said I could NOT wear all black so as the average kid I did exactly what she told me I couldn't I dressed in all black all the time. The music, fashion, additude, style and love of culture soon followed. I've always been one varient of goth or another (in slang terminology). I've always been this way, I always will.

State 'o mind.

Vampchica,

Intresting use of words.. ' Stand out' is it your conclusion that goth should be "in your face"?

I hear people say "I don't care what people think." then condridict it with...

"Why don't people just accept that we are different?"

I think as it is now, a majority of the general public is indifferent to the ever present "misfit" dressed in black, and projecting a "mysterious" demeaner.

There seems to be two groups (not making an assumption of the population here, just the world in general). Either they are my age and were there when New Age turned into Goth, and they feel some sort of ownership of the word or right to decided either way. Or they are of a younger generation and wish to separate themselves for the purpose of claiming some stake in the word or right to decide either way. Bah, It is pretty much unanimous that it is a state of mind, so I think it should stay in each persons mind as to what they feel on the topic.

That smug entitlement that trendsters adopt is rather transparent, via their candor.

When you see so much being Grafted into their ideals, it becomes obvious that they are "playing the field" and are often scattered thru various subcultural intrest, though few will boldly admit that they are simply curious visitors.

Others that stereotype me that way... lol

id have to say the way u think is what does

Personally, I don't think of myself as goth. I am simply just me. Nothing more. Nothing less. However, if society says I am because I like wearing black alot, read horror stories about anything especially vampires, werewolves, ect. Plus I have alot of books on the occult, magick, vampires, ect. I like gore and blood and such. If those things alone mean that I am goth then so be it. It doesn't bother me at all.

well... looking from the outside.
I am not goth, by any means really
I consider myself more of a metal head and
music freak than anything else, but when people
decribe someone who is goth they usually go off
of appearance... usually long dark hair/ often times
they have tattoos/ darm makeup/ dress in dark
clothes... people have their own ideas of what is goth
when they claim to be goth, but to someone who
doesn't feel like they are, they usually go off of
appearance alone. Just like if you were to call someone
and emo/ jock/ prep/ valley girl/ ghetto

you know?

Ask me if I'm goth, and I will look you in the eyes and say, "No." Other than my stark interest in the darker nature of humankind, and the darkest myths of this world, there is nothing I wear or act like that even remotely brings me close to the stereotype that surrounds the term, "goth." As far as I am concerned, Goth is a period of time, not a specific qualification for a person or persons.

Now...if you were to ask me if i was an individual, someone with my own brain, someone who refuses to accept the norm, and steps outside of society's definition of rationality and logic every so often, I will look you in the eyes and say, yes.

It doesn't matter what the person looks like, so long as they share common interests with myself, I will associate with them. I try my hardest to shy away from such stereotypes as "Goth," "punk," "gangsta," or even...erk...."juggalo," and choose to look at the person's actions. This is what makes me who I am. This is what affects who I speak to, and how I interact with the world, not a title.

A trend is a trend, and "goth" or at least what it used to be no longer exsists in reality.

Me, I am not "goth" nor am I "punk" nor do I place myself or am placed by others into any such catagories unless you count "mature" as being one.

Things like "goth" exsist in highschool when people are still trying to figure out who they are and what they like. A person will eventually mature and realize the idiocy of such labels.

What I find interesting is that some people who fall under the label say "I don't want to be labeled" and then go and describe themselves as a "goth"

These are the same idiots who yell 'anarchy' just because everyone else is. The reality of anarchy is dismal and literally "dog eat dog" and "only the strong survive"

The people who still claim that they are outwardly goth, still do not yet know what they want in life and some of them are not the sharpest razorblades in the boxcutter.

To be honest, most are just looking for a way rebel.

DISCLAIMER: I'm not talking about everyone, just some of the idiots I've met. Don't offended by my rant please :)

i do consider myself goth...but it has to do with an atmosphere that i enjoy more than my appearance or anything else.
i enjoy darkness....physical darkness, dark movies (clockwork orange for example), dark music (marilyn mansons holes in happiness is a fine example).
when just meeting me day to day im just a guy...nothing to comment on i think, but

if im going out to a club, or playing in a band, my clothing is victorian bdsm for lack of something better. (cravat, waistcoat, leather).


i suppose because i like being goth. the world for better or worse is all about labels.
white/african american......
straight/gay
sub/dom

im goth...

~W~

Someone who likes the darker side of things. They usually listen to death metal and goth music, such as Dismember and Bauhaus. Marilyn Manson is NOT goth. He's just...weird. Real goths are not depressing and suicidal like the posers you see at Hot Topic. Goths are fun to be around and aren't afraid to laugh at themselves every so often. They don't worship Satan and aren't evil despite what some ignorant people might say. Goths don't all dress alike either. They like to create their own unique style. Goths are also very intelligent and creative. A lot of them are writers and artists. Goths DON'T envy the popular people. They are what they are because it makes them happy. Goths would rather stay who they are and be among the so called "freaks" than be like everyone else and be popular. They understand that there are more important things in life than popularity, and usually succeed in life while the popular ones don't become much of anything.

....what is it that makes you goth?

Blood. Despite what Prophecy may say. The Ancient Germanic and Austrian Tribes were the first Goths and I for one am proud of My heritage. That is the Goth I relate to most. The Goth that inspires Me to be Myown person. What others see Me as is what they see Me as. This is how I see Myself. Goth or Not.

My lifestyle,my beliefs,my clothing

I would not describe my self as goth, though most of my friends would, mostly because of my intrests, clothing, and the way I behave.

has anybody noticed that the goth culture is closely based on the SS?

I always had the impression that goth harbors contempt for pop culture, and trends/fad. Yet what became mainstream is anything but..

Yeah... goth is starting to become a fad. It makes me effin sick. We got made fun of for dressing in our own unique styles, and NOW all of a friggin sudden, it's "CooL". Oh, barf.

I'm not really sure if anything about me could be considered goth. I generally stay away from social activities, but that's because of extreme social anxiety. I don't really dress the part. The only thing I can think of is my sense of morbidity. I am completely turned on by gore and dead things. I'm not educated on the gothic mindset or subculture, though, so I'm not even sure if that is considered goth at all.

personaly i'm not a goth. i'm just me and no one can change that. i think being goth is a choice not a need. it's just like fashion, it changes over time

Goth to me has always been about being Custom, rather then costumed. goth to me reflects goth, even in the buff.

Gothic architecture defied customary design. It step outside the box

that is pretty interesting... some people go off just appearance when they classify things as goth.... unfortunately MOST people go by just appearance

which is why when goth went mainstream it became trend.

I have seen people refer to Primitives, and Savage Folk as Goth. When those Sub Cultures branched from Punk, and Death Metal.

The fact that I was there with the first Wave; felt/saw it all back in the late 70's/early 80's.

Now those were the days, yo...!!

:)

You yearned...granted.My Lady.

yEA! the CURE brill :)

goth is surely more a state of mind/attitude than the image one tends to associate with it because you could be wearing your frilly pink vest and still be goth. you can take all the paraphanalia associated with the goth lifestyle away and remain a goth in the truest sense methinx

my dark and twisted state of mind that norms dont understand and are afraid of.

I think sometimes there's confusion between the noun and the adjective (e.g. a person who is A goth vs. someone who likes goth music).

I like some of the previous posters who have said it's a state of mind. I would presume that the people who make gothic art, music, etc. need to come from a certain mindset. Likewise those who appreciate it.

No one needs to be dressed in black, have black eyeliner, combat boots, be a cutter, and on and on in order to make and/or enjoy the culture.

So what makes me goth? Check out my profile and see!

What does it matter though, really, we are all individuals who dress how we want, society labels people and puts them into categories, i don't think a Goth is labeled as a Goth anymore now the Emo label has come into play.
Just because i dress in black doesn't mean i'm either, i wouldn't class myself as anything as i wear different styles of clothing depending on the mood i'm in and where i'm going. it's the press and media that tries to state who and what we are and what should be worn.
People shouldn't be judged on what they wear, if you class yourself as a Goth then so be it.

goth and emo are two totally different things. and if I am to believe my sister no one uses the term emo anymore in daily life.

Well I confess I am diffenert and darker than most. *With good reasons* But to me goths are those who wish to be of the darker side of suburbia. I see the ones labeled as Goth as a dreamer of wanting to be among the dark breads.

screw labels i am who i am and i rock what i like. I dont pay attiotion to these fashets labels that society is so overly obsessed with.

To many fret over "fitting in", they are obsessed with social identity, and how others receive their adopted identity.. so much so, that they lack in developing personality. while some go through this phase, others dwell there.. because it is the path of least resistance. Sadly they attempt to by pass social etiquette, and impose on others with their Identity.. sort of "Accept me as I Present myself, or reject me." So the failure to be 'accepted' is blamed on their adopted identity, rather then their lack of social adaptability.

Thats the problem these days, all the sheep out there as I like to call them dress accordingly to suit the media groups so that they will fit in, they are too scared to dress how they want incase they get slandered for it, if the media shown some super models and actors and actresses in some red and black stripy tops and pinstrip jeans and said this is the in thing right now could you imagine how many of those idiots would go out an buy them just so they could say i'm in fashion, its Bull, wear what you want, who gives a sh*t what anyone else thinks as long as your happy, so what if people look at you differently, you'd still be the same person inside as if you were wearing different clothes.

Someone once told me that the last true goth was Edgar Allen Poe. The writer of stories, and a possible murderer (one of his stories about a little match girl is identical to a murder that occured at the time the story was written, many believe he was the purpitrator of the crime).

Many people seem to view the Gothic subculture as being based on Litrature, music, fashion. But to ask somebody what makes them goth, is the same as asking what makes sombody a punk, a metal head or a chav.

It is society needing labels, to pigeon hole individuals so that they can understand, well at least think they are making an attempt to understand somebodys character instead of getting to know people as individuals.

Saying that, world goth day was fun, and that was a day I was happy to label myself, lol.

i think if ur vamp ur a lil goth lol

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