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Victorian graves recycled at £3,000 a time

by REBECCA CAMBER, Daily Mail

A cemetery which is running out of space is leasing out graves to be used again.

The 1,000 plots which are being rented out still contain the remains of the first occupants, who died more than 75 years ago.

For £3,000, a family can 'adopt' one of the traditional-style graves and Victorian monuments for 50 years.

They can even have the name of whoever is buried there scrubbed from the headstone, obelisk or cross then have it replaced with an inscription of their choice.

The scheme, which is the first in the country, is being advertised by the City of London cemetery in Manor Park, East London, as a solution to burial space shortages.

Officials claim the original inhabitants of the plots were buried so deep - most at least 10ft under - that there is room for more on top.

The 200-acre municipal cemetery was built in 1853.
It is the largest in the capital and one of the biggest in Europe, yet experts estimate it will still be full within ten years.

Since the scheme started, nine families have 'adopted' plots. Officials are anticipating a high demand for the antique memorials.

Cemetery manager Ian Hussein said yesterday: 'It is like a lease on a property for a 50-year period. Most of these
graves were sold as family plots for four burials, but in most cases there is only one or two in them and there is room for more.

'It's a complete change of our culture but we have been surprised by the uptake.'
Not all of the plots in the cemetery, where England's 1966 World Cup hero Bobby Moore and inventor Robert Hooke have been laid to rest, are up for 'adoption'.
Sites can only be leased if there is room for another burial without disnames
turbing the original remains and no living relatives object.

Family plots could once be passed down for generations. But in 1974 leases were restricted to 100 years.

After paying £3,000 for the rights to the plot for 50 years, families will be charged an additional fee of £850 for every burial in the grave.

Under the scheme, assisted by English Heritage and the Institute of Cemetery and Crematorium Management, the names of the dead can be erased from the monument if it is in a bad state of repair, or families can have their names added to the original inscription.

Experts claim it is cheaper than paying for a newly-dug plot, which costs around £5,000 plus £5,000 for the monument.
Mr Hussein added: 'The monuments you get these days don't compare with the Victorian and Edwardian craftsmanship.

'For a starters you can't get the stone any more. I've known people spend £15,000 on ones that aren't a patch on them.'

It is currently illegal to disturb human remains. But in a separate move, the Government is considering allowing authorities in London to re-bury old bones in Victorian graves deep enough to allow for more coffins.

Annie Kiff-Wood, of the charity Cruse Bereavement Care, said: 'It will seem very strange and disrespectful to a lot of people.

'But while so many of us want to be buried, these issues will have to be faced.'

Thankyou sabre for this.....GRRAAAA!!!
This has made me cross!!another way of making money from the dead.Some one bought those graves along time ago so that there loved ones could be remembered.

*It will seem very strange and disrespectful to a lot of people.*
Yes i feel like this,i do think that this is very wrong.It makes me not like are government even more...IF THATS POSSIBLE!!!!!

that's soo wrong and disrespectful =/

the human being does everything for money

Great oogley moogley - grave condos now? But to share a grave, and to have permission to deface the headstones already there????????????????

Then what happens in 50 years???

Thats horrible. I am disgusied at being english. Arrrrrrr No no no no! You do not do that.

: ( : ( : (

damn thats messed up i think i'd flip if someone messed with a family members grave

that is just freakn wrong ...

That is horribly disgusting... but there are worse things in this world... lol but my question is what is your actual discussion question other than to show how wrong this is?

we have dug many civilisations up in history. no wonder i want to be cremated

These ppl that start the graves should have known that has many ppl that die they would run out of room eventually. i think these cemetery's should just try and look for more land to start another site. they should not be disrespecting these buried humans for more money. the only way this should be done is that the family members should have the choice if they want to be buried right in with family members. i would not however do it unless it was my husband. foreplay after death.

Thats wrong!

That is just discusting... how can people get them selves to do that.. you do not disturb the dead, let them rest in peace.

It really makes me want to be cremated and set in a jar at home. again i don't want to be buried with anyone other than my husband. again the foreplay comes to mind. I cant see how the government or any other could let this happen. cu i know to have some exhumed you have to go through a shit load of red tape just to dig a whole. my mom had my grandfather exhumed and it took 2 yrs to have it done.

over here in the usa i know that there starting to burie couples like husband and wife on top of each other like who ever dies firs will go six feet the the 2 will go 4 feet insted of beside each other i know that i woul rather bee next to my husband than on top of him i know this stuff lol my grandfather work for a funeral home lol

I to would rather be next to him but if it were to come down to it and share a grave i would rather be the one on top not some stranger 50 yrs down the line.

There is a cemetary near where I used to live. They put in a highway, so pulled up the graves of that cemetary and buried them in another, or more appropraitly, on top of another cemetary. The other was a 'negro' cemetary from a long long long time ago, both were old cemetaries.. I honestly thought it was kind of neat to see two who were not related buried in the same plot, but I don't agree with it one bit no.

That is wrong on so many different levels, I cannot even begin to imagin.

That is sooooo very very wrong.

yea that is wrong i am so gonna be creamated

Well, in the case of those I am talking about. I would rather see it happen than have the graves relocated away from the lands they were on. Alot of the people in these.. three hundred old cemetaries, founded the lands there and were born and died on those lands.. they've a right to stay there.

I think that is like the worst thing to do, I know I would not want some one to come and disturbe my grave or any of my families we paid for them to have that final restimg place everything seems to come down to the all mighty dollar. I do not feel it should be allowed just an opinon..

*shakes head in disgust*
That is wrong on so many legal, spiritual, and moral levels. Not only are they usurping paid for property, but they are defacing property, and ruinging family memories. Some of those family members may well still be alive and tending those graves. Did they get permission from any possible survivors?

That is disgusting. It goes to show how unrespectful and money hungry people really are, they even rob you when your dead...ugh.

People will be people

Yes, this is so wrong in so many ways...

One has to wonder what the usurpers are thinking about the prospects for the future of their own remains.

OMG that is so wrong to do this............What utter gaul of these ppl..When I lived in San Francisco you couldnt be buried inside of city limits unless this has changed since I've been gone they have Colma otherwise known as the city of the dead yes ppl live there but it has more cemeteries then any other place I have seen in one place..This is sick....I know London is sprawling but why not find an area outside to bury the dead..They cant go and visit mum or dad that way?? What geez this is just sick....I want to be buried but not like that

If they are running out of space, then maybe more people should be encouraged to be cremated. If they have objections to that for religious or other reasons, I really see no harm in burying where there is room. I do have a problem with removing the original names though. The names of the first occupants of the grave should remain and the names of the new occupants should just be added some kind of way.

Two Words... Not Cool... Not Cool At All

that aint even right,i'd be pissed off if someone moved in with my deseased family member,adopting for 50 years ,lol no that is just Wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

that is so fucking wrong on so many levels,ppl pay for those sites for their loved ones to be honored and remembered,i'd beat someones ass if that ever happened to my family ember's or even a friends grave!!!!

that is extremely disrespectful to the dead!!! once again, people are overlooking the wellbeing of the dead in order to make money. that pisses me off. >:-(

What ever happen to Rest In Peace? fi there are ghosts seeking revenge for desecration of their place of rest they'll know who to find . this is both disgusting and immoral.

thats pretty fucked up.

I found out that in Mexicoand otherSouth American countries that if you cnt keep up the payments on the grave, they ig it up and send the remains to you and charge you for it.

Now I do draw the line at digging up remains to someone's remaining relatives and then charging those relatives for shipping the remains to them. That is wrong and a little too digusting.

money it screws everyone even in death

erg, i can't stand some things in the world, how can they be that messed up?

Very informative thank you

thats terrible

wow can we piss off the dead anymore than to throw some other person they dont even know on top of them

It is such a pity that people are being permitted to desecrate graves...but I read in the article that is is only for graves where the families have raised no objection....

This is repulsive. Let peopel rest. Those graves are the origanl owners rightful spots. They should not be sold. This is a spit to thier face. No one can Rest In Peace anymore can they.

add a little ignorance, a dash of stupidity, mix well within disrespect, stuff it into an asshole and you have got these people.

pathetic

true words could not have been spoken...

.....thats soo wrong, what kinda person would do that, thats soo dissrespectful!

That is sick. Completely and utterly sick. The exact definition of 'disgraceful'!

So what do they do if the family of the original “occupant” still visits their ancestor’s graves to pay their respects? Do they have a say in the defiling of the gravesites and the defacing of the headstones? I’m sure they figure that they were buried so long ago that no one is still around to care. But what a shock to someone who comes around maybe once or twice a year to pay their respects their great grandmother, grandfather, uncle, aunt, etc.

I guess it’s true what they say, money is the root of all evil, because what they are doing is just that, EVIL. How would they feel if someone did that to one of their loved ones graves? Then again, they’re probably rubbing their hands in greed waiting for their loved ones to die. After all, they’re worth more to them dead than alive.

Disgusting and pathetic.

Now of all the disturbing things I have heard to save money this is one of the sickest and strange I have ever heard of.

Next thing you know they will be re-using caskets and burial clothes and ornamental flowers and dead bodies.
Anything for a buck or 3000+.

REdR0se, that has been happening a few times now, even in North America !

The Victorian recycled graves idea was bound to happen sooner or later.

I've heard of people being buried on top of other people to save space, but defacing the headstones to act like the original person was never there sucks ass.

i agree that defacing headstones is wrong... rubbing out the names of the original occupants.
as far a burying people on top of people... this is nothing new.
in louisiana where they have to "bury" people on top of the ground in above ground crypts some places let the bodies decompose to skeletons, place them in a cloth bag, push them to the back of the tomb and place a new body in the grave and so on and so forth until the tomb is full... this is space saving where there is little space and a hole in the ground is not feasable... they do not take the names off the stones but add more names,birth and death dates ect...

This is soooo wrong on so many levels! I'd come back and haunt the hell out of the families involved!!! And the government officials who dreamed up this scheme!!!

Yeah it sounds wrong to bury people on top of others, but you need to think logically. Over the years with all the people who have died and all the people who have been burried, imagine what would happen if we had a brand new hole for every single body. Eventually, graveyards would be everywhere, we would run out of room to put them and they would start growing into are parks and other places. It may sound wrong to do it, but you have to put the comfort of living people over the comfort of the dead. In 100 years I won't give a damn if someone else is resting above me, but right now I do care if there are graves everywhere I look.

The sad thing is I can actually believe it. People have become so money hungry in the past years they will do anything to earn a buck. I guess that even includes messing with the resting places of people.

There are even old cemteries that have history that are being either built on or moved because the property can be sold.

It is so wrong on so many levels. -shakes head-

That settles it, inceineration for me thank you. That is just wrong, in so many ways. There is nothing humans won't do for a little extra cash.

Yes it is wrong, but there is never justice in life.

Well in the land that i am from, people can't afford eternal burials, plots are recycled all the time, after like 50 100 years whatever the date is. I have a service that is going to cremate me I signed up for that ages ago.

You have got to remember, these peoples plots have expired, and they would be removed anyways. The Vicotian era was an amazing one, the literature, the archetecture, the art, the music, all of it to pay homage to a woman Queen Victoria, who had a celebratory time in the 1800's partying non stop, keading to such greats as Oscar Wilde.

I have talked with some awesome writers, much better than me, who have told me about the amazing times under this female Queen who carried the hemophilia gene into the English royal houses. It was also a time in which England created many ntions like India, and other principalities like Hong Kong. They were in the think of things and when a country is at such a state of dominance the resulting times could be considered romantic, even on a gothic level.

and the other thing is, we are all related. We all come from the same forefathers forebearers, and are the progeny of the first humanoids millions of years ago. Since families are often buried in the same plot or side by side, since we are all related, except vampires, since we are a different species, it is ok for a dead human to be buried next to a dead human. Of course it is a ghoulish undertaking, but ... modern life is rubbish so we look to the past for magic.

The dead will be most displeased by this. One does not mock those who has passed on by disrespecting them so. People who fear not the dead have not crossed a necromancer. Not to say the dead themselves won't express their displeasure. I'll let karma take care of this one, the universe isn't one to reward acts like this.

Dark Greeting's,This is the reason if I am fortunate to die,I want creamated,Save's space and I can be thrown to the four wind's.That is the most derespecting thing I've heard of in years.
Dark Blessing's,
KA

OMG i hate that does anybody still believe that you can get cursed if you disturb the dead and why would you do that i think that you have to have the familys permission of the person that was in the grave first but whos gonna do that its family why would you even want someone you love to be burried in the same plae that soneone else was .... can you tell i dont like this?

wow, thats very disturbing... wow, thats all I have to say...

We will all leave our human forms eventually. This is certain. There is a land crisis in this modern world and a loss of honor and traditions as society changes. Use this as a lesson, as a tool or a reality check if you will. Teach your House, your Coven, your peers and your children the values that you hope will linger throughout generations to come. Be consistant with your actions and give as you wish to receive. It's all we can do. The greed of many outways the compassion and good of the few. In Darkness or in light, as Icons or outcasts we can only walk the path that leads us with out regret or emptiness. The world is full of death, pain, cruelty and injustice. Somewhere scattered in between is love, honor and goodwill. Even Vampires posess these traits.

Let them dig up the dead...They will not rest in peace at their end in this world.

that's just wrong... :( why would someone want to do this?

Erasing history for cash *shakes head side to side slowly* I find that not only offencive but down right dispicable. I hope sombody does not come up and erase my memorial for a few bucks. I would be breaking out of my coffin on that note. The hell with rolling in there.

That's really poor planning by the government. They could have been planning for this with the population growing the way it's been for years. But the worst part is erasing the names like those people never existed. Sometimes many decades later decendants come looking for their ancestors,, guess they won't find them there.
I'd haunt them too..

this just shows us all how disrespectful people can be, no matter how kind that are to the living, they defile the deads only place of rest, this is absurd

i think that it is a little messed up to rent out graves but when there is no more room i geuss that is going to be the new trend... i cremaited my son so i didnt have to worry about someone else renting his grave and pissing me of my ex off.....blessed be my friends

I say Rowiel put it right, anything for money ... BUT, my boyfriend makes a valid point (after reading this with me) ... It would really depend upon just how old the grave site/cemetery is ... (having read this article in full I do realize that they are talking about remains of only 75 years or more) ... but if they were to do this to a site where the graves are say 100 years or better, it is very likely that there are no remains left ... coffins way back then were made of wood, or bodies were buried without coffins using lyme to disintegrate the body and to keep away smells ... by now those remains are long since gone ... I honestly would not put it past there being many cemeteries that have or are already burying people atop original inhabitants of the grave ... on one hand I had planned to be buried beside or as close to my mother as I could, but more so lately I have been leaning towards being cremated and having my ashes spread somewhere special to me ...

The dead should be respected. They have lived and suffered through this live to earn a peaceful slumber. Why can't people just give it to them? Oh the power of greed

They were expired plots which they keep the bones of the first occupant in

they also said they were plots which have like family members missing so there is room

the only horrid thing about this is the erasure of the name a lot of people all they leave to this world is a perpetual tombstone and a pile of trash in a landfill, as well as all the recycled sewer waste to be spread on crops to make it healthier. For these people who have made no other impact on the world besides using it up and then demanding space for eternity to mark the fact that they did indeed exist, even though they probably didn't even have an obituary is the true shame. When all that is left is a plot that your own family did not even want to be buried next to them for whatever reason, and all that is left is the headstone, it is a shame to erase someones attempt at immortality.

For those of you who say you want to be creamated or however else you spell it, well, you better do something about it now, you could die tomorrow and no one knows how you wanted to be buried because you feared to be disturbed disrespected....

I will be cremated, I don't "wish" "dream" or "plan" on being cremated, it will happen because I am part of the Neptune society which will pick up my body when I die, and I will be converted into ash, so that I don't have to clog up the surface of the earth with what is left of me,

I don't need to have a tombstone to mark that I existed. I will leave a very nice legacy to the world, in arts and letters and finances for the people that I love. NObody plans their death, but I have planned my life in this fashion that so when it comes everything I have done will be etched in stone on a permanent level. It really doesn't matter what your name was, you didn't choose your name, you didn't even have conttrol over when you were born and you even will try to prevent your death but fail. Listing all these items on our tombstone is a futile attempt at having control over our life or death.

I am sorry I am being so harsh. But because I don't believe in heaven, I have done all this work to ensure I leave this world better than I found it.

That`s horrible!

I think this is disgusting, your family plot is sacred

thats very bad.

That is totally outrageous! how would they feel if it was thier great great grandad's name being scrubbed off of the tombstone for someone else's name to be put there instead..... grrrrrrr!!!!

Money scamming grave digging.........well you can use you're imaginations what the next word's going to be.

well.....thats interesting to say the least. not sure I would do that, but hey, to each his own.

Just goes to show you how overpopulated the world is!

Cool! I'm getting cremated...heck with that

I am totally appauled by the lack of hummanity in this world. My son passed away and to think of them defacing my poor infants grave would be extremly painful and morally wrong and i agree with some of the other responses people will do anything for money, no wonder this world is going to hell.

I don't think anyone is going to mess with a baby vampire's grave. You can rest be assured of that. Children are well respected in the cirlces I have been included in. They are sacred. The hope of mankind, when they die, the air goes out of the planet. Sorry to hear that.

Some names cannot be erased from history. If you don't like the idea of having the lone vestage of your name upon your tombstone scrubbed by some minimum wage worker in a cemetery, then do something about it. Make a legacy, but tap into the worlds legacy and find your place in it.

Hazzah!

that is bad it sounds like some kind of curel joke but it is true.these days nothing is sacred not even death and burial

this is so fucked up!!! but i suppose id pay to rot in a victorian grave.... wouldnt you?

Jazzy is right. What good will money do you dead. Why not die content with the knowledge that you will be buried in a place that you know that you would like. And have a roommate.

death is not sacred because life is disrespected just the same.


what is worse? disrespecting graves or treating the living wrong? The dead don't feel any emotion, but the living just want to die, sometimes.

thats messed up! havent they heard of respect!!!

The disrespect of the living hits our broken he arts like stakes, these mistakes make you go goth and dress in black. At least they have the disingenuine courtesy of opening our graves, they let out the vampire.

why thank-you Lance... it's good to see that there is intelligence on this planet.... i'd LOVE i nice grave with a humongous angel watching over me.... and yes, a roomate. ; )

thats sick and could start a spiritual war

This is truly disturbing, thank goodness I'm being cremated. The thing I'm wondering about is what type of person would actually buy something like this? I don't know what's worse the people selling or the one's that are buying?

As much as I find it disrespectfull to the family's of the dead, and trust me I do, what is to stop them from starting that B.S here? Everyone has a right to being remebered in stone. If they want it. I will be remebered in stone. And I am the 00.01% of the population that does think about what will happen after I am gone and do plan things to happen after I am gone. Maby I am nuts, who knows? I just hope if my stone is still readable in 300 years that sombody doesnt come along and ruin it.

I have a feeling I will leave no stone for people to forget...but a mark they will carry with them in there hearts forever

no, tombstones weather away too. You have to make a mark better than a tombstone if there is anything at all to prove you ever lived at all, beyond the landfill, or fertilizer, or a story about you that lives in the lore of the land you once lived.

I think that this new money making scheme is disgraceful and disgusting.
I doubt very much these people would be too happy if they found out that somebody had payed £3000 to destroy and sully their loved ones final resting place.

I cannot believe the length people will go to make a buck... the disrespect. i can imagine the kind of person it would take to come up with such a horrific scheme...

I don't think I'd mind too much, if it happened to me. So long as they didn't start fiddling around with my corpse or erasing my name. I mean, if I wasn't dead and unable to know any of this. If I could be aware of it I'd probably be bored out of my skull. It might be nice to have a room mate. And as the article says, if a family objects they don't do it. Period.

It really wonld not be that bad. It's not like I know there doing it to me, and I am just rotting in a hole.

no matter how long they have been decesed...it is still disrespectful to tamper w/ the ever resting bodies.
they are only doing it for the money, and i think that money is the evil of the world today.

It is wrong. But, you also need to remember that most of these families are dead and gone. They cannot take care of the graves. Who do you think is going to be paying for all of the upkeep?

You also need to remember, when the cemeteries were built, they were outside of the city limits of London. London had urbanized around those cemeteries.

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