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I have a very simple question. What is goth to you? A frame of mind or a state of dress? Feel free to expound on this....

dressinin black and being depressed lol

haha..

Goth is a style, Goth is an art, Goth is an age.

A style of.. wearing black, iconoclasm, and not really fitting into normalicy, (and loving the hell out of it) and being open-minded.

Goth is an art, because it just is lol..

Goth was an age.. i think it was the early 1800's?

A very detailed response... thank you!

Style, yes. But you can be goth with out all the black.

Mind set? Thoughts? Believes?

To me, its more of a state of mind, an outlook on life. The clothing, the music .. those don't make the subculture, though they do lend to it. You don't have to wear all black, listen to depressing music, be depressed, mournful, etc. in order to be one that embraces the 'goth' subculture. It's in more than just what meets the eye.

today i think it's a state of mind that can spill over into how a person presents themselves through dress
however i don't think that just because someone dresses a certain way that's how they are. when i was a little younger the outside represented the inside... BUT i can't exactly dye my hair strange shades and dress a certain way and expect to get work as a wedding photographer... now if i were doing every 'goth' wedding on the planet then sure no problem, but in reality no one wants me wearing a corset and big black boots to shoot their wedding ;] so i had to tone down the outside in order to do what i love doing. i feel it was a fair trade over all, and i'm still ME, no matter what i look like

Being Goth is a lifestyle, a way of thinking not just a dresscode to me.

Goth is a state of mind, not the way you dress or the music that you listen to. its not how much art work you have on your body, how many piercings you have or the color of your hair. doesn't matter if your happy mad or sad.

your either Goth, or your not. its up to you.

I agree that it is a state of mind, as well as to some artistic expression.

i think its a stigma. BUt it is also a state of mind,a form of expression, and a way of dressing.

It depedns on the person and how they are and why they feel they are goth. I think it also has a lot to do with darkness. because there is a thin line between goth and emo. i think. but all of these are just labels... and i think we should be too advanced for such things.

I believe it's a state of mind. Some express it through artwork, dress, music, poetry but those are just outward responses.

It mainly consists of a state of mind. what people believe in, how they choose to express it. poetry, music, etc. wearing black is a cliche image. you dont have to wear black all the time. its who you are inside, although one thing that annoys me in todays society is when people confuse goths with emos.

Goth refers to many things, architecture, literature, a lifestyle and forms of art including music. Often times when dealing with buildings and written word, it is a specific time period or authors that are highlighted.

Yet to determine if you should call somebody Goth or not, is to only look on their outer appearance. I find this rather ironic since many of the "Goth" people I know do not seem to be what most would classify as "Goth".

Over time if you are to determine what is and isn't Goth, with people you have to look at several factors. Lifestyle, dress, interests and desires. To know all of these you must first know the person, not how they appear.

goth is a frame of mind. I'm a teacher and I can't go around dressing in all black or with my hair 4 different colors. It's like an aura that surrounds people. Even though my clothes come from NY and Company, people can feel something in my attitude that makes them stand back. I'm an individual.

Being goth means different things to many different people... to me, its a state of mind, even though I do wear a lot of black, its more of a mindset.

Thats like asking 'what is art?"

But to me goth was the older style, early 80's stuff. Siouxsie, Bauhaus, cloves, and the occasional urge to dress like a deathrocker!

I agree with Raynne that goth is a mindset that can be expressed through dress, but that dressing goth doesn't necessarily have to mean you are "dark inside".

Personally, I believe I've always had a dark mindset, but I didn't actually start dressing goth until a few years ago (all black, nail polish, make-up, etc.).

LOL, Kristiana that is the first thing that sprung to me as well.. bizarre how being Goth is perceived as people who are depressed, or worse.

I was listening in to a RTE radio documentary the other day and it was being discussed what is Hell, and it was the general consensus that Hell was a world full of Goth culture! I found this amusing and would of called into the radio station but I was driving and didn't have the hands free on.

Well,

over here in Germany the elder ones of us still prefer the term Grufti.
Goth or Gothic is by those considered a hollow phrase with no meaning behind no more.. just nice black clothes, being gothic to be hip or cool or whatever, arrogance instead of tolerance, sold out comercially etc. pp.
Luckily there still are enough younglings willing to listen and reconsider their expressions.

Grufti itself is considered a fringe group, roots in the former british punk movement and dark wave scene, yet with multiple split ups. Its a state of mind, a feel of heart, a movement in itself (just come over here to Leipzig and visit the WGT with me) and none of the persons considering themself a Grufti will give you the same description of it twice =).

it's definitely a frame of mind, not to say a state of life proved through time to be real on most of us. i think clothing is not really necessary, but comes with the individual. feel free to dress how you like, you goth people.

Goth is a lifestyle and an artform

I agree with mdshai; True goth is a mindset and lifestyle, regardless of what you actually call it. Goth posers don't count; the ones who just dress in black or claim they are different just for the sake of being different. And saying the word "goth" is empty or meaningless is absurd when it obviously has meaning for so many. Clinging to an older German word just because it came first is both arrogant and elitist.

Well, yea I think Goth is sub-culture, but what I don't like is that some people think it should be linked with all things immoral. I think thats the height of ignorance.

captainglobehead how do you know if someone is a poser? Are you talking to them and finding out?

Too many times I deal with the arrogant Goths- that then see pictures of me from 1983 when I was at a Bauhaus concert and their opinion changes.

That was my point, unless you get to know someone you have no idea what they are no matter what they look like on the outside. After all in the punk scene that was part of the point for the outlandish clothing and styles.

i really think that "Goth" is a state of mind and i would agree with most others that it's a form of artistic expression, not a dress code

I find te term"goth" to benothing more than another labelling that society cannot fit into the nor. It saddens me, we are so intelligent adn curious; so much can be learned if we worked togtether

i think goth is more of an expression of oneself. looking to different than the norm and to stand out in a crowd. it seems we all think of goth when we see someone dressed in entirely black.

I think goth is a label used to describe the way one dresses and ones mindset on things. But I think like any label it doesn't really portray most of the people in that subculture.

CryDuchess.. it seems to be nearly a pre-requiste that society bunches people up into groups and labels them. Isn't it a sad fact how we do that

To me it's always been about individuality and finding beauty in darkness; finding the beauty in things normally shunned by the rest of society. It's art, expression, literature, music, individuality, being brave enough to be yourself in the face of a conformist society. It's definitely more than being adorned in black and mopey.

goth is not wanting to be like everyone else. not blending into society or the latest fashion trends. believing in what most pple wont. Having an open mind and excepting everyone as they are.

A Goth is an open minded person who doesn't care what others think

goth began in the early 6th century bc, as a form of artwork, architecture and dress. Now adays the goth culture has changed into a crazy cycle of morbidity and black dress.

Did you know that goth originally becamse popular as a way to go against the 70's disco era?

so to me goth is a form of expressionism, but lately the word is a joke.

I would say that the best way to describe a goth is someone whos dresses in black and does not care what others have to say about them....also the enemy of a chav (f***in chavs) !!

I think they've goth many article on wikipedia... sorry couldn't resist playing on the word :P

Perhaps goth is an outer outer reflection of an inner darkness

To be truthful, I do not understand what makes a person any kind of label. Superficially, a goth is one who wears excessive amounts of black and is kind of dark and morbid by nature. I hate to think the true definition is this shallow in reality, but, like I said, I can't quite grasp the concept of these labels and therefore am not the best person to ask about it lol.

So is a politician Crow =)

goth is a person who dressess in full black maa that dint all ways have to be fucked in the head ... :D

*sighs*

Goth was formed as a state of expression with music and with style. Peter Murphy amoungst others created the idea just by looking at the Glam influence of Ziggy Stardust (Bowie) and even Alice Cooper's shock rock image. Combining that with the Punk image as well that is were Goth was created.

Today most bands are just influenced by it and by the scene. Goth today is nothing more then taking that image or sound and creating something new around it. It is nothing more then influence.

goth is nothing but a state of mind think about it imean punk emo and goth the close the styles that give them this name is all the same so it has to be a state of mind

i think goth is like a type of viking tribe form way back when. a bunch of savage conquerers . i also see goth as a style of fashio.n , or a lifestyle. to be goth i think you have to be born into it or have serious depression. i think you cant be goth when just wearing black i mean look at the amish they wear black but they are completely diffrent from goths.

There are many perspectives about whats goth but nobody can officially determine goth. One reason being that goth is a word used for different meanings.

@ Crow:
Rather an open minded person who DO care for others thoughts. Have we not enough superficiality yet, either because younglings don't know better or because the 'image' of goth says so and thus a lot of people just try to 'fit in' again?

I'd say, being gothic is rather to be yourself than to have to fit in somewhere. The roots lay not without reason in the punk szene and the dark wave was not without reason prejudiced as überromantic and extra macabre.

If souls and minds feel alike, they are alike. Hippies of the darker times we may be still.

@ CaptainGlobehead:
Well, I am a German. ;) Yes, I use the german word, but not to be elitist. You may have noticed, that I rather like to communicate with the people but to push them away, if they do seem interested.
Against posing there I have words. Thus divides them and us.
Oh, and btw.: the 'gothic culture' or szene as you know it today, as the GoblinQueen stated all correct, has its roots in Europe. So what? =) I learn from 40-50 year old Gruftis every time I meet them and it really gives you an interesting new picture!
But I will surely not tell you what to think. Hey, it is your life and your opinion. Feel free to share it with me, so I may share mine with you. =)

And yes, RavenEyes, if it comes down to labels my understanding is just way off too.
This might of course also be a reason, why not two gothics or Gruftis or whatever you want to call them, will tell you the same definition as asked in the starter.

Goth is not just wearing black because not all goths wear black all the time myself i wear black but not all the time and i don't act all depressed .. goth isn't a faze its a lifestyle.

What makes it a state of mind?

Yes it is partly a state of mind because almost anything associating with music or lifestyle is a state or mind however Goth is in fact a style of music and also a subculture. People forget these things and just go off on how Goths can be anything and it is only a state of mind..... blah blah blah.

If anything Goth is a form of music (not refering to historical meaning here) and has been a style since the late 70s and early 80s.

Today what goth has become is more influence. Very few bands still keep the goth rock sound but most bands are just bands of influence that had create new styles. Darkwave being a big example of taking Goth influence and EBM based music.

In truth it is not an "opinion" on what it is because it is already been stated thousands of times what it is. I think people just debate why to much on Goth that is loses what it is... When it is pretty clear what it is.

Goth is an individual lifestyle. It's living on the darker side. But, you don't have to wear black all the time or be Wiccan or Satanist.

It's creativity and beauty. It's that dark black thing inside you.

Sometimes it's very big and sometimes it's microscopic.

Everybody has a bit of goth in them. It's just how much they have.

Sometimes it's evil and sometimes it's just dark. And when somebody's goth side is larger than normal, it let's them see things way better than a normal person.

I think its more of a personality, all the other stuff just comes along with it.

I don't think I actually qualify for having a gothic personality or sense of fashion... But I have to admit, I truly love deep wine colors that are sometimes associated with goth culture...

Goth is a culture...a total life style. It is a mind set, a mentality, also i believe appearence should be taked into consideration. Wearing blue jeans and aropostle shirts all the time kind of kills the concept of goth. So in a nut shell, if you have the goth metality, you have the goth style.

Many people have different interpretations of what goth is, I do believe it's a lifestyle but exactly what I don't really know. I know It's dark but it's not always the clothes. Now people are starting to call themselves emo and other new terms. Renaming what appeared to still look like goth to me. Does anyone l else know what I'm talking about. It would be nice to know what the differences are, if there are any.

goth to me is both a state of mind and dress. people want a place in the world and for some people that is goth. they dress in black and act very drepressed, but it is also a life still for some people. These people are normal, there is no true definition for normal really though, but as i was saying, they are normal, but they life a certain way. thats all.

I feel it's a state of mind more then anything else. I feel I'm goth but I dont dress all in black all the time.

It is expression, it is being different... Sure the black goes along with!! But the clothing is only the fashion side of what Goth is!!

goth is actually a religion, but nowadays if u were lots of black..ur goth xD

Goth isn't just how you dress, although many people believe that it is. And, that is their right to think this way. But, there is more to goth than your outward appearance. It is in your being. How you view things. The art you enjoy. The music that you listen. Yes, some of it is style of dress. But, not all Goth people wear all black. And, you don't have to be in a state of deep depression to be Goth. I believe that being Goth is a completely misunderstood way of life by many people.

black in old style none of this pvc stuff

Depends on the people, but to me personally it is a state of mind, belief etc... I used to dress all black & was moody but even though i no longer do that i am still "Goth" at heart no matter my looks on the outside

there are now also diffrent types of goths from oldschool to cyber.

goth has become little more than shock value with the younger generation there was an era refered to as gothic but it had nothing to do with wearing black that is a modern media interpritation. and it was a long time before the 1800s try pre-chistian era gothic contruction was during the early part of ancient greece and roman empires. btw most of them wore white not black as dyed fabrics were for the wealthy

This comes in handy, I was ask that question th eotehr day at work and I was rtotaly lost, I mean, I know what goth is but I have NO clue how to explain it, als the guy (its a TM, team manager) ask em to show him what a goth looks like, I mean its hard cause the only thing kind of related to gothic at work ( please dont kill me for this) is a guy that is emo, and some gilr that has a couple of peircing, big boots military with buckles and long blakc hair and blakc dress, black nail polish, he told me this was no direfent cause it was easy to just wear blakc cloth and he said he has black cothes and also he had gages and peircings plus tattoos and did not consider himself goth.

Now from what I red so fare its in the mind, its a lifestyle a way of acting and thinking, but what way and what style, how to explain to "normal" people?

PLus what is the difference from and emo and a gothic? (please dont kill me)

just tell him what it is to you because its a subjective thing

It is a made into a lief style of some many teens..

btw I wear all black normally have a tatt and piercings and am being treated for depression but I'm not goth I generally dress mostly western but I'm not an uban cowboy either I do actually own a horse. I guess if you really wanna know what goth is ask Tim Burton.

I think that goth is a state of mind.

i'm going with state of mind of looking at the world with OPEN eyes. not passing judgment on other people just cause of how they look but who they are.

the younger gen put no effort into it

Goth to me is a state of mind and darkness that dwells within ones soul.Not everyone has the dark edge in their soul but the ones that do are goth.

Goth is about being yourself and not giving a shit about what others say goth is mistaken for emo alot though .

The dress is part of it, but I think the state of mine has more to do with whether or not you are a goth. My son left for work today dressed totally in black. He is as far drom being a goth as David Letterman.

its much like the old punk style it is a way of life not really dress but thats just my thinking.

goth was an age in time.
Now its jsut a stupid label or a chique that everyone goes into.

Damned labels.

I think its a state of mine... who care how you dress... or live... its whats in your heart! LOL im probably one of the less looking gothic ppl there is... But I dress how I please and really dont care what anyone thinks... and you dont have to be depressed to be goth... this is probably the first site I havent been judged on {that i know of} we are who we are and thats good enough!

to me goth is a state of mind. Being open and creative not following the norm.

Goth is a way of life. it isnt how a person dresses evern though i love the color black. Goth is rich in history, religion, and a way of life. there are many different types of goth. thats what it is to me. i have been studying about the ancient goths all my life. my people, my ancestors.

it really is all about perception

I know if I dressed continually in black, had tatoo's in view, and earrings my professional image would be zeroed.. is it any wonder I do look forward to the weekends :)

Whatever goth is, i find that this stereotype, as well as all others, limits people to act in a certain manner. When i am labeled, i tell them that i am much more than that. I am completely open to new things that arent considered "goth" for example, i listen to rap, i dont care what some people may say, i like it. Some of the scenesters believe that since they are goth, they have to listen to certain music and act a certain ways. That is terrible, for it limits them, and in the end they will be the lil depressed gothic stereotype.

a state of mind and also how you live -------attitude -

A lot of people consider Goths as anarchists..what is your take on that?

I read more than once phrases as 'acting this and that' as a definition.

An actor acts. He/She is not his/herself while doing so but pretends to be someone else.
Should this be the meaning of it?
Pretend to be?

Well: anarchist, why not? If it fits you?
I'd rather cut out the maybe violent part.

goth is a state of mind. ive seen hell and its not all black. its far worse. the black is just a bit some do to get some peace.

goth isnt a state of mind and has nothing to do with your cloths it mean in dictionary terms different if you know your different and are seent that way to others you are goth or in another dictionary term it means old so come on think and exsplore

The great thing about being Goth is that there is no "cookie cutter' stamp that you have to conform to. I beleive that being Goth is about free expression and being a bit off-beat. True Goth followers don't have a ridged dress code (although I do admit I love the black cloths and chains, makes me feel almost naughty). You, as Goth, have allowed yourself the freedom to expand your ideas and thoughts to see the real world that is buried underneath the candy coated 'normal' world everyone else or the 'normals' take as real. Vampires, werewolves, spirits Totem protectors...we in the Goth community know that these things are real (as many of us fall into one of these catagories or know someone who does) So called normal people laugh at us when we try to explain, I think that this is one of the main reasons so many Goth are ridiculed. Thus we become angry or depressed that people won't open their eyes and see the fangs before they sink in, so to speak. So... then, you have a person who dresses in black, has unpopular views and is angry or depressed. Hmm..almost sounds how you would describe our countrys Founding Fathers, wouldn't you say? Just something to think about.

very well explained mamadog.

mamadog and bathory... I think you got it pretty close to what I believe.

Goth has nothing to do with a style of dress, a taste in music or art, or even a certain mentality.

A lot of the goth people I know are some of the most actuated, intelligent, artistic and open (not to mention sweet) people I know. I was a social butterfly of sorts before eventually coming to the "goth group", and I can say from some experience that "goth" people also have a certain sense of practicality.

They do not define themselves by any boundries, but with a lack of boundries. They do not shut out anyone, as is custom for deviants, and they are open to themselves. They know who they are and where they're going. They take pains to go against the norms and make people question their perceptions, even as they challenge theirs. They have a love for learning, and in doing so, are constantly challenging their beliefs.

I personally wore black and chains because it flew in teh face of everything considered "normal", I hate confining myself to the norms. Now, I simply be who I am, and leave the rest. I have found the "goth' community to be the most accepting and individualistic of the groups I've known. I do not fear saying or doing something and being ridiculed for it.

For some people, the clothes are simply used as a barrier to keep people away and as a mask to hide from the general population. The color lends itself to invisibility and allows them to move around essentially unnoticed.

There is no "dark spot in the soul" as a few of you have said, simply a desire to seperate from the norms in society. I like to think there is nothing at all dark about me (well, for the most part) and that I am actually more of a light to others than a shadow. I know that there is nothing "dark-souled" about my friends, just misconception and rejection from the masses. I guess in reality, that (misconception and rejection) it what drives people from the norms and into cultures like the goth, emo, death rocker, skin head, industrial and punk movements.

Isn't it funny how the overly skinny, overly fat, morbid, crazed, highly intelligent, super-sensative, angry, depressed, confused, homosexual, highly artistic people are drawn to these cultures in an effort to escape the general population?

Actually I think being GOTH is about expression, and following the culture!! All this trash about OH I had a hard life, is crap... No one should be a goth because they have had a bad life!! True Goth is acceptence in yourself, believing in yourself and expressing oneself through dress, and through that culture... All this fame of cutting and so fourth is not what goth is!!

I have to admit... gothic cathedrals and other gothic style architecture is fascinating and awe-inspiring.

Further more, being GOTH is about free thinking, not anarchy... not cutting, no drugs or drink, it is about people who do not fit into any sort of group because they want to live their life in a way that normal society doesn't.

When you mix Goth with Anarchy and cutting, drugs and drink you get a result of Columbine high...

Being a Goth is not about being into blood, vampires or cutting yourself because you are hurting, being a Goth is about expression... How you feel and how you decide to live your life... And trust me there are a lot of newbies on VR that seem to think Goth is about Drugs and drink and cutting... I have been an Industrial Goth (sub genre) for as long as I can remember, and any that I have come across do certainly not dabble in drugs and so on!!

But at the end of the day GOTH means different things to indidual people, so the question of Goth or not!! Is already void!! People will decide what Goth is or is not!! that is the beauty of it!! BEING DIFFERENT!! BEING UNIQUE!!

Nows days its confusing..there are ALOT of thoes who Think goth is a fashion.It's hard to tell..untill they start talking to you.LOL.
Being a true goth..is appart of the mind body and soul.Embracing death and darkness as true nature and being all all things beauty and an art of passion of many ways.
Putting on black clothes and chains and spikes and skulls,is just to express to 'others' what we are.Many choose to keep them to themselves and not put on the goth clothing.They wish to blend in and hide away.
Alot of wannabes dress goth,
cause they think it's the 'IN' thing.
You know when they are not goth by chatting with them..they will say somthing like..
'OMG..Like,That shirt so sooooooo CUTE!'And
she smacks her bubble-gum.lol.

goth is a stat of mind and style. its your style and dark creativity

I am sorry Belmont but if you think Goth is a state of mind your very wrong there!!

for some its one or the other or both,some peoplenever grow out of it

goth is not a style or a mind set or anything else... it is a word... use to describe anyone... goth has become a "bad" word.... it has because what people fear their childrent becoming... it has become a way to rebel.... it has become a way to fit in even when you don't.... even few people out there understand what they do,,, they think but wearing black and by being sad and pissed off they are goth.... if you need a label in order to feel you belong feel free I believe all these names we give ourselves are just new ways to show we still need to belong... why are the tittles needed.... why do people have to be grouped... why do you have to only have one style or one mind set.... I don't know about anyone else but I am nothing but me and that changes moment to moment

goth is being and knowing who you are and not caring about what others think about you.for some it may be a fashion statement and for otheres its a state of mind.

I think Goth is another form that people choose to express themselves. It is in the form of dress and style and even a way of living. I know our youth have drawn off this and now call themselves Emo etc.

In my honest opinion, for me it is a state of mind and a style, because you put a piece of yourself into what you wear. Though there are a lot of people who think "im depressed, and love wearing black i must be goth" Please .... you arent .., you are just confused and need to find the real you.. before you label yoruself.. or even better.... DONT LABEL YOURSELF at all!!

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