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Jadeibobs
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08:19:53 Apr 23 2007
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now it is said to believe that taro cards tell the past present and future and also alot of other reasons of yourselves.


So do you believe in this?
You do you think it is not right how we should know our future?




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CyrilDeticus
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08:25:22 Apr 23 2007
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I believe in them just as I do rune stones. And what future is read to you isn't necessarily the future that will happen. It is merely one path that can happen. The cards choose the most likely path that you will take. Besides knowing what happens in the future can help you avoid a bad occurence.



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Jadeibobs
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08:34:51 Apr 23 2007
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i find that extremely true to thnx



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Tyrtheoldone
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08:36:00 Apr 23 2007
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It is impossible to know your own future for that’s the problem as soon as you know what was ahead of you its no longer there something similar could be there but not that same thing. The only think that I believe is possible is for you to know what dangers there are ahead of you and try to avoid them as they come but that just makes more obstacles for you to avoid. So I just try to think of the future as a large spiders web you start at one point and there’s so many things you can do or chouse to lead you one way or the other the best you can hope for is to know what the chooses are and make the best one



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CyrilDeticus
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08:38:33 Apr 23 2007
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That is a very good point that you made there.



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ReaperHunt
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08:39:05 Apr 23 2007
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When it come to divination I look to runes which have many similarities to tarot.

Tarot cards and runds don't predict the future. They give you an idea of what may come. It may just show you some of the difficulties you may encounter

" In motion the futre is"-Yoda

Your future is altered by the choices you make. The future is not a fixed point.

When you look to tarot cards you have to remember that the reading can depend on many things.

First how specific is the question your asking. 2) How experience is the card reader 3) What kind of tarot deck is being used.



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neonate
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08:41:11 Apr 23 2007
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Depending on how you do the reading, you can get a feel for something in the past, how well you and another person will mesh, and potential glimpse into the future.

Tarot has many meanings though. One card symbolizes several meanings and based on its placement, those meanings may be altered.



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Jadeibobs
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08:42:59 Apr 23 2007
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i think also we can get addicted to taro cards
and they tell us nothing sometimes because you want something really bad



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neonate
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08:48:54 Apr 23 2007
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There are so many loops and holes in a reading though.. it ends up you see what you want to see, unless you are TRYING to be impartial... so you may not get a useful glimpse at all.



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GrieviousAngel
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09:02:16 Apr 23 2007
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I sometimes use them to help me.... in ways I may improve myself (the minor arcana for this...)
*nods* or I ask a simple "whats my day going to look like" with major arcana and then go to the minor arcana in ways to improve my day (especially if its a bad reversed card lol).. or improve something so the bad won't be so hard...
(check out my journal sometime when you have time ^_^)



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BellaMalattia
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12:00:19 Apr 23 2007
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I am not entirely sure weather I believe in them or not. I have had taro readings done many times and each time they have been so dead on that it's scary but I still can't decide weather or not it is just a conicidence



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XTCraver
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12:01:12 Apr 23 2007
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all of this is true. my mother used to work as a tarot card reader and a lot of the things she said were very true. especially about the future



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DeathNotes
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12:02:51 Apr 23 2007
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Tarot cards provide insight, they do not supply direct answers. Tarot cards provide trends, they do not tell the future... for anyone.

Tarot cards are excellent tools for divination. They provide a degree of answers and a current as well as past trending. They also point towards influences that might be coming into play. But they do not state when you will win a million dollars. They do not tell you when you are going to die, nor do they tell you if your love life is going to last forever with person X.



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DeathNotes
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12:05:58 Apr 23 2007
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Neonate, I have done card readings for people online from VR whom I have never met and never known the full extent of their individual situations.

I believe tarot cards to work on a mystical level, but they aren't a be-all end-all for answers, that's for sure. It is, however, more than just 'what you see'. Doing readings online is as impartial and disconnected as it gets. I must respectfully disagree with your statement from personal experience. Now does that mean I'm always 100% on? I certainly hope not! I want to be accurate when I can, but I also like to know that tarot doesn't hold the answers correctly 100% of the time.



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Antonius
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12:09:18 Apr 23 2007
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I have to say that I do not believe in tarot cards at all.



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DeathNotes
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12:30:22 Apr 23 2007
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And I'm wondering what "I don't believe in tarot cards at all" has to do with the main question or subject?

Belief in the tarot was not the original question. The original question was whether or not it is right for us to know our future.

And to that extent, I personally believe that if one can see a portion of the path ahead and can tell from what little is seen if a situation is dangerous and threatens to undermine what we wish for ourselves, then why not work to avoid it?

Likewise, it's always nice to know if you are on the right track.



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dragonspawn
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12:44:43 Apr 23 2007
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I use taro cards myself and find them very useful



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mysticwinds
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14:01:23 Apr 23 2007
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I have used tarot , runes and the oracle cards. Tarot can show you a path. This may be off the subject, but for a few days before my niece's graduation a voice kept telling me don't go, change your plans. the day of the graduation i pulled the raven card. ill-fate. That day we were in a terrible card accident. I have read tarot for many the pass events had came to pass to the querant. The present also, the future we can always change the path.



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huntinginmoonlight
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14:23:18 Apr 23 2007
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i belive we can see the past present and feture, i have been reading the cards since i was 18 and have done a good job i belive them to be very acruate



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DireConsequences
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14:34:10 Apr 23 2007
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I agree with Jenova on many points. I believe tarot cards show us the most probable path of our future but that is based on our current decisions.

As for whether it is right for us to use them to figure out our future. I don't think there is any harm in it. I have used tarot cards before and have two decks of my own. They only give us guidance at that time, not the definite answer for what is going to happen.



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xRoguex
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14:36:28 Apr 23 2007
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I read the cards myself and yes it can be very accurate on the past and present. As for the future it doesn't go that far into it, well not my readings 6 months at the most and it just gives you a general idea of what will unfold in the general future. Like a significant change. I don't believe in fortune telling though, or what I consider fortune telling such as deaths, accidents and lottery wins.



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Krowe
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15:03:50 Apr 23 2007
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Ive only had a tarot reading done for myself once... but Ive done many... what ive seen, is that people dont get the future out of the cards... they see what they need to change.. like I had one women, who had a reading that told her in many different ways that she had to change her additude to move forword.. come to find out she had just decided to break her marraige off, and was taking her bad mood out on everyone around her.... I havent seen her since and hope shes ok.. but I dont think we see the future in the cards.. we change out future because of the cards.. its our ablity to see what will happen if we stay on this path that lead to us thinking the cards give off what the future holds... (thats what i think atleast...)



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xRoguex
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15:12:20 Apr 23 2007
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I totally agree with Krowe explained what I was thinking lol thanks Krowe! Thats exactly what the tarot does in regards to your future.



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CryingMist
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16:01:05 Apr 23 2007
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I would say it all depends on a couple of things, the surounding when you read them, the energy you radiate, and the time, plus also depends on who reads them.
So its more of a take let go depending on these.



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dragonjss31
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16:17:03 Apr 23 2007
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I have seen a few readings done and been told by the reader that many different meanings can be gleamed from each card. So really how do you know the reader has the right one.



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Death
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16:42:23 Apr 23 2007
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sometime the knowledge of the future can help, change the present, but if we see the future, and try to change it, what we for saw will happen....



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lindar
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16:46:40 Apr 23 2007
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I believe that it is possible to learn things about the past and future through tarot cards. But I also believe that the message that one receives from the cards depends upon a large variety of factors.

For example: say the card reader knows what you're asking about, they will try to tailor the reading to answer that, even though the cards may be trying to tell a very different story or idea.

It also depends on the kind of deck that is in use, as well as many, many, many factors.

And as to whether i believe that trying to glean information about the past or future to be right or wrong, that's a difficult question.

As far as the idea of the past. You can't change it at this point, so what's the harm in knowing about it?

The future is different though. It's not really something to meddle with since it changes every second that passes.



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EternalXRage
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16:54:07 Apr 23 2007
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I would rather not know my furture. As for Tarot Cards though, well all I can say about them is that I will never touch them ever again!



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xxLadyShadoxx
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16:58:54 Apr 23 2007
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I use and read tarot cards, I don't really understand them but I know the give you a definate yes or no answer when you ask them a question



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LadyChordewa
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18:02:57 Apr 23 2007
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I've only just had my first tarot card reading a couple months ago. I was scary at how accurate it was, but I think it also is more accurate, when the person doing the reading knows you well.



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Wildsorkid
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18:13:58 Apr 23 2007
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I believe in the powers that the cards pocess. The cards are used in order to get clarification on issues. for me they are a tool to help guide us into the next step in our lives



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hot4blood
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18:18:18 Apr 23 2007
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It's uncanny on how that works. I've had several readings with native cards which are very similar. It always hit right on the money. Said things that no one would have known and predicted things that came to be true.



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DarkestDesires
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18:32:58 Apr 23 2007
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I have had several readings over the years and I agree with Jenova - they are used as insights and are useful and insightful into what is and what can be. We all have different roads to take and sometimes having a bit of information will help determine the path.

I am self teaching myself the tarot



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AngeliqueCollins
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18:54:53 Apr 23 2007
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The tarot cards are also good for meditation if you encircle yourself with the major arcana.



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Samarka
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20:03:08 Apr 23 2007
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The possible futures are infinate, by knowing your future you are effectivly altering it to suit you as events progress.



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Darkangel81
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20:07:55 Apr 23 2007
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Tarot cards for the most only tell you what is in your subconscience and tell you a possible path to take, they do not tell the actual future.



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menerfecious
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20:12:50 Apr 23 2007
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I believe that tarot cards can not only predict the future and tell your past and present, by they can also offer some impartial very sound advice as to what action you should take in a particular situation.

Coupled with that some cards have certain magickal properties and can even be used to contact certain entities.

I have found that the enochian deck (this is just one of the many that there are out there with magickal properties) can call on the ancient enochians for assistance and guidance, and when used correctly, you can even feel the power within them and the presence of something powerful.

As a warlock, and a long time practiser of Tarot among other things, I have found the cards of some use in my work.

M



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CapriAl
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20:22:18 Apr 23 2007
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These are alot of great comments and thoughts. I tend to agree with AC though. They are a great divination tool, surround yourself with the higher arcana for meditation.



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hurtsoulless
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20:28:12 Apr 23 2007
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Growing up I lived next to an asian lady that would do "I Ching", which is an asian variant of tarot, readings for me to help guide me. I would generaly give her whatever possible choises I had and she would do the reading and it would aide me in my decisions. I wouldn't give her a lot of detail about my options but the readings were spot on. There were details given that the reader did not have access to. I had faith in the cards and I think because of that, I was confident about the choises I made with the guidance of the reading.



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FETISH25
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20:48:57 Apr 23 2007
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i find this a very hard one to answer.
i dont believe that they can tell your future as i believe you make your own future by the choices you make in life.
i do however believe that there are psychics out there that can know your past and present



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Tzaddi
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21:03:23 Apr 23 2007
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I love tarot cards. I have several beautiful decks. Tarot cards can be considered a "light weight" divination tool, as they often give us choices and different paths. I wouldn't rely totally on the outcome. This is because it can be something that "may" be. It is not written in stone.



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Brokenaxe13fallen
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00:39:44 Apr 24 2007
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i believe in them, but as for the future part. that is up in the air for me. A few readings have been to close to call.



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Eldar
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00:41:42 Apr 24 2007
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I belive in them. They can tell one possible outcome of a situation, not the whole future, nor do they say the exact future, only what may come.



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WhippedKitty
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00:48:38 Apr 24 2007
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I do believe in them cause I use them about every 6 mths, and they have always been correct and even helped me out a few times. I feel it is neccasary to not over-in-dulge ourselves with any of it cause we could see something we do not like.



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platinumwitch
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02:42:54 Apr 24 2007
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Tarot cards in the hands of a skilled user can allow a view into a "possible" future that is not set in stone but can be alterd through our actions.



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Law
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06:40:02 Apr 24 2007
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I do believe that they can tell tell the future in a sense.

If used right they can also tell you more about you and how you act. One reading someone might do on you might be for one thing but you might see something else in them if you look.


We make what will happen, any input into what we could do is great.



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phoenixrising
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15:35:24 Apr 24 2007
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Tarot cards show you your past and present situations as well as any possible future ones. I have read them for others but not for myself. And they were usually on the mark.



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NocturnisOrchid
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16:00:46 Apr 24 2007
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I do believe in tarot cards and that they do see past and future.As to whether we should know the future, I think it's ok to know.



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sexychica
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16:25:55 Apr 24 2007
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divanition is very imprecise, it is possible that they work but all the readings that have been done to me never worked



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Kglitterous
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16:53:55 Apr 24 2007
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The cards are an inanimate object. They do not mystically rearrange themselves into an order specific for that particular reading. Why would you believe in them?

Your reader is the one you should believe in.

On that note; tarot cards are believed to be like a book of life experiences, with microcosms and macrocosms of meaning. Thus in any given life every person should experience every card in teh deck on most of it's levels... but particular individuals "TEND" to have particular cards reoccur again and again, because they are integral to their personalities or that those cards are pages of the life book that they do not "get."



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dragonmonk
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16:56:10 Apr 24 2007
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while there are many ways to tell the future you must keep in mind the future can easily change.



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titangoddess
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16:59:38 Apr 24 2007
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Power of perception. The cards do and can work. Someone that can read them well is better suited to use them. But cards do work....:)



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DevistatedAngel
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17:29:35 Apr 24 2007
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i belive u have the choice to live ur life and shape ur own fate.
if sum1 tells a person that they read that that person was going to die in one week. then that person is likely to die it might just be the panic of thinkin about dying that kills them, and if they were never told they may still be alive.
living as if nothing had ever happened.



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TheHellequin
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19:35:29 Apr 24 2007
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I think Tarot is too limited and its interpretation too vague to have any real validity



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twilightsmile
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20:16:49 Apr 24 2007
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I believe in some aspect they work. But I view them more as a more in depth horscope



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Aoibheal
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20:31:59 Apr 24 2007
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Well said M'Lady Titangoddess! The cards do work, and as in all things the more you are in tuned with your intentions, the more clear the response will be.


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MissDevilLove
MissDevilLove

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20:33:36 Apr 24 2007
Read 967 times

whenever i used my tarot cards i was always near or close to the readings ... careful what tarot cards one use, they must call you not you seek them



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MooniePie
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20:50:09 Apr 24 2007
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I have been a Tarot reader for about 12 years off and on. At the present time I have about 25 decks. So yes, I would say that I believe in them.

I think the more in tune you are with your intuition and "psychic" knowledge, the more accurate they will be. I also feel that the connection to the deck plays a very big role as well. I've noticed that I can use two different decks that I feel drawn to and pretty much get the same reading out of both of them. Now if I use a deck that I just feel kind of iffy about, it's a totally different reading. I am not to keen with reading a lot of people with my own personal deck. I use different decks for different people.

I think decks tell the future in a sense. More like a path that you are on and what the outcomes could be. That could be different for different people though. I know when I read I lay out the spread, get a feeling for the card, maybe read the meaning to myself a few times, then I kind of zone out. And just start talking. It's pretty creepy in a sense but, people say I am pretty good at what I do.

As far as thinking we are right to know our future, I think knowing some is okay. I don't see the harm in knowing bits and pieces of what your future may hold. As far as knowing it planned out word for word, I think that's impossible. Even with true psychics. They may see things one way at the time but, the time comes and it can be a totally different out come or event.

I feel the most important thing is to leave your options open. Just because your path might be different from what you’ve read, doesn't mean that either one is right or wrong, maybe you just need to take some lessons from each path. And make the path that seems in the middle and comfortable to you.



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cheshiresmurf
cheshiresmurf

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21:10:48 Apr 24 2007
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yes I beleive
I have had my tarot cards read on many occations and always found something to help me with a decition or just the course in life I need to take to get where I am heading in life



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bloodydamiana
bloodydamiana

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21:18:04 Apr 24 2007
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I believe they can be correct but everyone is in charge of their own destiny



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vampierjazz2010
vampierjazz2010
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21:19:44 Apr 24 2007
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i believe that they tell you thae future but it is your choice whether or not you want to know what will happen in the future...



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Eldar
Eldar

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21:39:27 Apr 24 2007
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You can also "see" with Tarot. It is like remote veiwing.



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Trivia
Trivia
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22:32:26 Apr 24 2007
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I believe in the power of the cards. I have had too many readings that are right on target.



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EmeraldLust
EmeraldLust

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01:07:14 Apr 25 2007
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i believe in tarot fully. i also believe that it is okay to learn our futures from tarot because its answers are not specific. there is room for questioning & holds mystery still.
Another thing i believe is we already know what is going to happen in our lives & that when we were disembodied souls we chose what would be our happenings in life.



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BloodshroudDream
BloodshroudDream
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02:31:01 Apr 25 2007
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Runes and Tarots are just tools used to open the inner eye and mind. Nothing is ever set in concrete. We has humans pick and choose our path, and will all choices and decisions come reactions to such



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Marjon
Marjon
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03:54:44 Apr 25 2007
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The way I see it tarot cards really only tell the mostly thing that is going to happened based on the path you are currently on. If you change something the outcome will be different then what the cards say. The way I see it that is the whole point of doing a tarot reading. There is no point in doing one if you can't change anything and make the reading inaccurate.



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Riska
Riska

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04:27:26 Apr 25 2007
Read 913 times

Personaly I love my tarot cards. They dont tell me exactly whats ahead of me but they have helped. I think that its important to cover all your abses and tarot card is on of my majior things that i turn to in a bad time.



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luna1sierra
luna1sierra

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04:37:52 Apr 25 2007
Read 911 times

tarot cards work as a viewing of possibilities tool. the skill is in the reader. the future is highly mutatable...i have had more accuracy with a deck of my own design and makeing than i did with storebought.



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ghost21
ghost21

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06:58:37 Apr 25 2007
Read 900 times

I have always wanted to know what the cards say about me and my past I have no interest in the future. I want to know why I have the dreams of this past life I want to know more about the past. Yes I believe the cards work.
Ghost



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HauntingThoughts
HauntingThoughts

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07:15:58 Apr 25 2007
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I believe in tarot cards and I also believe it is a good thing to know your future because then if there is something bad you can try to fix it before it happnes



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theblackwidow666
theblackwidow666
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07:47:35 Apr 25 2007
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i believe in tarot card but that it does not indefinatly mean that is your future



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UrielArnauld
UrielArnauld

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07:50:06 Apr 25 2007
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I suppose I believe some what but in some aspects I'm sceptical, specialy when the death card comes into play of course everyone is gonna die sometime in the future it makes no sence to me.



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drkangel
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08:22:02 Apr 25 2007
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I believe in the tarot cards, i think it just gives you a hint what might be occuring sometime soon. I find it helpful.



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Lonewolf2000
Lonewolf2000
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08:30:16 Apr 25 2007
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Is it possible that the missuse of Tarot cards can also open a gate to the spirit realm by accident just like the Ouija board? I have heard of some cases like that when someone didn't really know what he or she is doing.



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Phoenix
Phoenix
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09:26:50 Apr 25 2007
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well i do not believe we should know everything about our furture but a litle heads up never killed anyone lol i do believe in tarot cards and it is a very easy way to tell the future my wife is very skilled woth them so yeah to me



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CyrilDeticus
CyrilDeticus

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09:40:17 Apr 25 2007
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Sometimes cards and runes are evil little things. One night my friend tried to give me a reading and the runes pretty much told him nothing and not to give me a reading. That was on a Friday, and every Friday after that has been the same. So Saturday will have to work instead.



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GrieviousDemon
GrieviousDemon
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10:38:52 Apr 25 2007
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Past and present sure , and possibly whats to come, but those are just forcasts and things in life may change the out come with what path you follow



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lusciousbbygrl34
lusciousbbygrl34
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12:42:44 Apr 25 2007
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I think it is fine to know our future its being able to go there and change it that is not right. everything happens for a reason. to know a little bit of your future may help you understand certain things or to change it before it happens.



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virtuous
virtuous

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14:41:27 Apr 25 2007
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Believing that they can tell your future would mean that you believe that your future is already set and that you cannot change it. I tend to agree with Tyrtheoldone on this. To know your future is to change it. That said, Tarot cards are extremely helpful in helping you along the way.



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Jadeibobs
Jadeibobs
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20:11:03 Apr 25 2007
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yep
but thn if people read your hands it could tell a different story



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Goblet
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20:16:45 Apr 25 2007
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I strongly believe that Tarot cards are 100% accurate. Like a sniper through a scope.



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ScarletVamp29
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20:42:11 Apr 25 2007
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Tarot is not set in stone...
It only shows what the POSSIBLE outcome could be if things remain as they are.
I'm fairy new at reading the Tarot, but have found it to be a rewarding practice.
One should never base their decisions/actions totally on the reading of the Tarot....



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secretnightsilence
secretnightsilence
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21:06:47 Apr 25 2007
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I personally use runes, and my friend uses the tarot.

I beleive that you can never look to deeply into what the runes say. They do not give the exacts, but only a general overview of your life, and what you should do about things.

My friend tells me tarot is the same.



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WynterMourn
WynterMourn
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21:09:16 Apr 25 2007
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I've never had much luck with tarot. It's been good for an overview, but the same explanations came up over and over and it's always presented me with vague answers.



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Natriel
Natriel
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21:21:26 Apr 25 2007
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I do believe in the tarot cards as well as Rune stones and think that a probable future prediction is to your advantage. By knowing where you will be, you will know weather to let things happen or be watchful of the happenings in your life in order to make certain changes that will wor for the better. Some may say that that is not wise for dooing so will alter the predetermined future for you and those involved in it. Yes, doing so could, but it could aslo spare those involved from suffering at the same time. I am all for what will happen will, and what is said to be will be. But at the same time, I am one who will not stand off to the side and watch "what is meant to be will be" happen and see someone I love or know and respect deeply get injured or suffer. I would rather die then left someone I love be hurt emtionally or physically when I know it is at my expence.



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Georgia
Georgia

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22:30:52 Apr 25 2007
Read 839 times

i do believe in tarot cards...i had a set and i could read them very welll..i got rid of them after i did a reading and my life completely turned upside down...now tarot card don't predict the future they line you up with possible choices and possible outcomes of a situation...i also don't think people should get paid to read tarot cards it really is a sacred thing...but this is only what i believe.



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BowieX
BowieX

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10:04:51 Apr 26 2007
Read 829 times

i neither believe nor dont believe my belief is ppl have there own beliefs and they r welcome to it. if it is done one on one (ie in the persons presents) then yeah i believe but when it is sent over ur ph by sms then i dont believe...ie find ur true love by sms-ing their name and urs...please....



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ThEsInEaTeR
ThEsInEaTeR

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10:11:34 Apr 26 2007
Read 826 times

I use My card's to Help me in times of need, Esp if i need closure to a situation They can help Dicide which path not to take.
Angel card's are also useful.



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ghost21
ghost21

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10:17:36 Apr 26 2007
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I would still like to know more about the past the learning the future will only make me think more then I do now but learning the past will keep less off my mind.
Ghost



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Druidic
Druidic
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11:29:20 Apr 26 2007
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Cyrildeticus said it right from the start.

ANY form of predictions show you a likely path, but the option to walk that path or not still resides in your hands!



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Mortangia
Mortangia
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16:05:29 Apr 26 2007
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I believe in it.

I do it alot, and they are always right;)



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Jadeibobs
Jadeibobs
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16:11:47 Apr 26 2007
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i do it too but i duno if it is always tellin the truth



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DevistatedAngel
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17:31:59 Apr 26 2007
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i believe we make our own fates.
but if sum one tells sum 1 else that theyre going to die in two days then they might just die on that exact day from the panic that they were going to die and if they hadnt been told that then they would of lived.
see wut im sayin?



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gothicboy69
gothicboy69
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01:03:35 Apr 27 2007
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i hate tarot cards i believe we make our own fate



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Kasaidia
Kasaidia
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01:11:54 Apr 27 2007
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I hear they were evil. Meh I almost had a card reading done a long time ago, but my Aunt made the girl put it away since it was satanic. So, I dont really know...



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Aoibheal
Aoibheal
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01:26:27 Apr 27 2007
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Tarot Cards are NOT Satanic...they are as everything else. Fueled by the energy of the one who handles them.


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TsarinaOfNight
TsarinaOfNight
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01:29:13 Apr 27 2007
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I believe that Tarot Cards can reveal some emotions that you are feeling and your desires but sometimes they can't



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LordVlkodlak
LordVlkodlak
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08:10:37 Apr 27 2007
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I am a bit rusty, but I have read the Tarot and been read. I would strongly agree that they can tell you of your past - and help you focus on the present. When it comes to the future, they can represent a good idea of where your path lies based on the path you have so far travelled.

Should we know what our future holds? I do not believe the fates would allow us the opportunity to see without a doubt what our future holds - that would take all of the fun out of life.

When I teach Tarot reading to others, I fall back to a classic story that almost everybody is familiar with ... A Christmas Carol. Just as Scrooge was visited by the Past, the Present, and the Future - so does the Tarot tell the same story. And when it comes to the future; one must just remember that these are visions of only what might happen; and not that of what must happen.



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ThEsInEaTeR
ThEsInEaTeR

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10:39:46 Apr 27 2007
Read 763 times

I agree...But they Never Lie...& have Never failed me.



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suavevamp
suavevamp

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11:54:58 Apr 27 2007
Read 759 times

I believe in the power of tarot cards,although ive never used them and wouldn,t know how.maybe one day i,ll have a tarot reading done as i,m curious.



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VR System
VR System

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11:54:58 Apr 27 2007
Read 759 times

This thread has been automatically closed for length.



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• • • • THIS THREAD IS CLOSED • • • •
•  Closed by VR System on Apr 27 2007  •

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