My mind has been racing since being told about biblical Adam's first wife, Lilith. Look it up. Why isn't information like this more well known? Why doesn't the King James Version of the Bible have it? Is it because it shows women as equals?
it's because the churches in charge of the original scrolls and what not don't believe it to be valid.
i think thats not in the bible because it show women as equals and it makes adam as good as any other man alive today
There is lot's of information on this subject out there...Including many forum threads...
Being interested in the cultural aspects of the bible as I am, I have studied the lost books of the bible. Culturally christianity wanted to remove any interest in female dominated aspects of society.
Actually Lillith has been known for quite some time. Movies, books, maybe even the bible. Kain and Lillith, Adam and lillith. the first marriage to the fight of equalty to being banished from adas side then the birth of Eve. adams perfection. the half of him.
The first time i even heard that Adam might of had a wife before eve was watchig a movie and then i came on here and saw that it could actually be true. In the bible they make the women seem less important then the men and submissive. Like animals or furniture. they could do what they pleased with us and it was a good thing. B.S they didnt want to show us that we are equal with man.
this is the reason why i don't read the bible. everyone is different in someways bc it was translated wronge.
Many churches didn't want it to be known that the first wife of Adam was replaced because that would mean that the first divorce was preformed by god and the church didn't want people to know they could do that
think about it for a second if god made a mistake with the first wife then he would not be the perfect god that everyone belives him to be :) if you buy into the whole god thing to begin with :)
Actually the Hebrew Lilith originates from the Goddess Lilitu who was Sumerian I think. Look it up.
Masque, I belive you are correct I was just answering the part about why it's not in the bible :)
Well there are many things not in the bible because king James did not believe in divorce so Adam having a first wife was not an option he wanted in it. There have also been many books of the bible taken out of it by King James and the church like 2 written by women and 4 written by the devil.
I agree with everyone here. There are more contradictions in the bible than just lillith. I was watching a docuentary last night on where they think Eden is and they mentioned Lillith and how the bible takes different things from different cultures and they are added in the bible. There were numerous scrolls but only the church would allow certain ones to be added so the church is the one that allows people to believe what they want them to believe. I think there is more to the story but that is my opinion. They say that Lillith is the first vampire.
Different versions of the Bible leave out different aspects.
Adam's first wife could've been left out of some for various reasons: she was equal (which would go against what many parts of the Bible indicate about women), divorce (a sin), etc.
The Book of Nod has a good description of her, also genisis does mention her
There is a lot of information out there about Lilith for those who wish to find it. I've done extensive research on her, so if anyone would like to know more, message me and ask. I'm more than happy to share the knowledge I have on the subject.
but in general the history of lilith in many cultures in very interesting and not just in our own it is important to some extent as well as others like the greeks
Uh...well first, Because Christians picked and chose what to put in, and a willfull woman is not something they wanted in a chauvanist, male dominant culture. Though she is in the Hebrew text, as are mentions of Nephelim and many other things that Christians deemed unchristian.
This is just another example of the Flores and indescrepencies in religions.
I've read the bible and a few other religious works. I've even read a German version of the bible and it differs in parts from the English version slightly. To me this proves that the translator of the work was biased in some ways. Unfortunately, in times of olde, men were often the ones who did all the work, while women looked after and raised the children. So it is natural for men to bias what they wrote towards the male gender. This is another reason why I cannot accept the word of any bible as the original translation has been corrupted by man since that time.
there are books of the unofficial or the books not put in the bible and she's in there once or twice and those books are kept out becase of women equality yes.
Cool, another reason to no be religious! I prefer gender equality. :)
It isn't there because as some have said, they don't want women equality. Im not going to go into any real detail as I will offend alot of people.
Women were kept in their "place" ;)
Lilith is found in Jewish apocrypha and in some Muslim mythology. There is a book called The Other Bible, by William Barnstone. Her story is found in the Book of Jubilees. You can find the book at Amazon.com.
Here is another good link for Lilith:
http://www.pantheon.org/articles/l/lilith.html
There are some translations of the OT that mention her as Lilith, some translate the word as night creature and others as an owl. I think that reference is in the Book of Isiah.
Another good link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilith
It may have been possible that many church people believes that lilith may have never has existed but been placed as another part of mythology. I keep hearing about Lilith being Adams first mate before Eve came about.
Just like jesus' wife,mary; the book she worte isnt included either....cant show women in power..
there ae many instances, in all major religions, where the strong female is erased thru the retelling of history... HIS STORY
Except for the Nostic Gospels book it has most of the details, but time has almost destroyed some of the evidence in it.
Here is what I have found on Lilith through my searches. Every Bible does mention her if you check the wording properly. God created man and women.Later God created Eve from Adams Rib. Lilith is spoken about in the Jewish community as the First wife. Adam wanted to be on top...and Lilith got angry and called out Gods true name and he took her away from him. The People do not want you to know that ,that early on in life women were already having their own opinion. The church today still says men should be on top and women shouldnt enjoy it.
Man that doesnt sound right, from what I understand that both men and women should be equal. Its shouldnt be a contest to see which gender is better.
Oh snap! That's messed up. I didn't even know that either. Wow, I need to catch up on my reading..
What I understand from researching this, Lilith was Adams equal. I believe this was one of the greatest reasons she was left out of the bible. Eve was never an equal to Adam and that is why she is part of the bible. But, if you really researched the bible in great depth, you would find there are many discrepancies. Many things have been left out.
The information on lilith has been known for a while, just not widely known, as most people aren't interested.
It also makes the church look bad as for years they've been promoting Adam and Eve as the first humans, when Eve, if you take the bible literally, which i don't, is the 2nd woman.
Its all rather odd.
I agree with moonspirit, it is a great read....but I have trouble believeing in something that has been passed along for so many years and re-vised, transcribed...blah, blah, blah. It's like the game telephone, once you get to the end of the line, the end statement doesn't even come close to matching the original statement.
Much information has been suppressed over the years by man. The Bible is Divinly inspired but we must remember it was filtered through man. When the Bible was being compiled the passages were carefully chosen by what is now the Roman Cathloic church to prove those points which they wanted. Women were carefully eliminated from any positions of power (even though they were a very important part of Jesus' ministry)
Perhaps its because the church doesn't see it as legitimate. It doesn't exactly put women in a good light, you know...
But then it could also be because they're sexist gits that realise women could take over the world if we were given chance =]
Oh come on, you know its true.
For years the Catholic Church has put women in a lower position. Even more, we are responsible for Adam's sin... remarkable women are prostitutes, like Mary Magdalen, who was indeed a powerful woman belonging to Benjamin's tribe. The problem is we are in a culture man-oriented. The church couldn't lose power recognizing women in our real importance...
The King James version of the bible was made not to establish morality but to enhance the wealthyness of his kingdom and in the catholic religion they have set women below men on the scales of humanity this may have been a reason for shrouding the fact .
History channel had an interesting show about it.
Lillith was an interesting person
I wrote about this in my other journal a little while back- I'll just paste it here:
Easy enough: The Bible in fact mentions a woman BEFORE they talk about the creation of Eve from Adam's rib. Male and female, He created them. Rabbi scholars look to age old myth for answers. Lilith, she is a succubus, the power of female sexuality untamed. Sexual imcompatibility is the supposed cause for why she left. She refuses the submissive sexual position... she believes she is an equal- Adam is not happy~ she says the secret name of God and disappears in escape.
She represents the first feminist, the first marriage, the first divorce.
Well its my belief that the bible has no information lon Lilith simply because she demanded equality and expected it. This doesn't fit in with the christian idealology that women are just breeders and nothing more. Christianity is male dominated and always will be and if females found that there is such thing as equality in their religion all their ideals, theories and beliefs would come crashing down on their heads!
DemianA is correct , The storie is from the Jewish Tora in the begining, She was also known as the first banchie, sucubus, child hater and more, She was also said to question God on his judgment, It was her that tempt Eve with the tree of knowlage
Lilith is mentioned in the King James Bible a couple of times... Screech Owl nee Lilith.
Also If the truth be known....
The bible holds only a few passages about women, and these only in a passing sum, Women were at the begaining of the bibels history, no more than trade goods, For cleaning, cooking, raising childeren and wifely duties. A lot of religions still teach that a woman is lesser than a man and is in no way influencial in desistions of important things
It doesn't have anything to do with Christian ideology- this is an ancient Hebrew text.
At that time, the Christian religion did not exist...I don't believe religion existed. I may be wrong...
Anyway, man has always wanted to be dominant over woman, and I doubt it will ever change...with the exception of a small number of men.
There are many things left out of todays "modern" bible as it was in the old testament. As far as women being property this is still a problem in many countries.
Lilith has been made out to be all things evil for 1000's of yrs. She was the first feminist... She was chastised and cast out just because she wanted to be adams equal. She was the "all Mother" and "god" knew no man could give birth or suckel a child and she was to strong to be controled.... so alone came Eve. And the rest is ancient biblical history...
To me the bible is like any other history book... you read it you know that it is full of what the many arthors were thinking at the time. You accept it as a opinion; not as "gospel". But it must be said here that I am not christian either. But I do believe in tolerance for all religons.
So like always this is just my opinion... we all got em...
SD
christianity wants people to follow their god, but if their followers knew and believed about lilith, how does that show a god worthy of praise? their god supposedly disagrees with divorce, and wants sexual purity for every soul. lilith has gone against both of these factors. If christianity showed this... and that their god himself allowed it to happen... the christian people would be deemed liars and fools.
wicca on the other hand... which is a Goddess-led religion, is not afraid to show or believe about Lilith since the Goddess does not have any sort of "sin" or any punishment other than the moral laws and Karma.
okya please dont hate me for this: but I studied it for over 18 years and never saw the name of Lilith, still I am open minded so I still do research even after all this time and dont close my mind into the possiblity that she existed and was there in the beganing.
LadyHex is correct that indeed Adam and the first woman were created simultaneously and equal.Found in Gen. 1:27.Then Eve was created as a subordinate in Gen. 2:21-23.My opinion on the matter of them omitting more about the first woman would be that they didn't want to start the movement of the female gender wanting to press them for rights in political and religious areas.Man wanted to suppress all beneath him.Hmmm...sounds a little familiar does it not?Anyways there is no particular mention of the name Lilith found anywhere in the popular version of the Bible,yet is found in the Midrash as being the first woman whom didn't agree with the submission that Adam wished for.
I believe the church has always tried to suppress woman. Look at what they did to Mary Magdaline and all the rumours of her actually been Jesus's wife and not a prostitute.
Plus I think Lilith was is more prominent in the Jewish religion...
Oh the joy of the Lilith discussion. Well everyone here is correct. However, she was left out for the most part because it would destroy the thought of God being perfect. Christians later decided to edit her out due to the fact that her presence made no matter. Just like, why are the only people first mentioned, Adam, Cain, and Eve. Can you truly believe that no one else was created? If so then incest was acceptable in biblical terms. Also, the King James version was a total wreck for translation.
Well you have to understand that the Old Testament was absorbed into Christianity. It's actually a part of Judaism. They did not teach from one book and many things about her are found elsewhere such as in the Talmud. There are apocraphal writings that are not considered canon. It simply is not a tenet of the Christian faith and even those who say they don't follow that faith have been impacted by what they teach and not usually what they left out and is why they don't know about her. It's the same for any religious philosophy...one is taught only what they believe and not usually what they don't believe.
The wikipedia can be erroneous but this excerpt is fine:
Lilith (Hebrew לילית) is a female Mesopotamian storm demon associated with wind and was thought to be a bearer of disease, illness, and death. The figure of Lilith first appeared in a class of wind and storm demons or spirits as Lilitu, in Sumer, circa 3000 BC. Many scholars place the origin of the phonetic name "Lilith" at somewhere around 700 BC.[1] Lilith appears as a night demon in Jewish lore and as a screech owl in the King James version of the Bible.
Hebrew לילית Lilith, Akkadian Līlītu are female nisba adjectives from the Proto-Semitic root LYL "night", literally translating to nocturnal "female night being/demon", although cuneiform inscriptions where Līlīt and Līlītu refers to disease-bearing wind spirits exist.[2][3] The Akkadian Lil-itu ("lady air") may be a reference to the Sumerian goddess Ninlil (also "lady air"), Goddess of the South wind and wife of Enlil. The story of Adapa tells how Adapa broke the wings of the south wind, for which he feared he would be punished with death. In ancient Iraq, the south wind was associated with the onset of summer dust storms and general ill-health. The corresponding Akkadian masculine līlû shows no nisba suffix and compares to Sumerian (kiskil-)lilla.
Around 3000 BC, Lilith's first appearance was as a class of Sumerian storm spirits called Lilitu. The Lilitu were said to prey upon children and women, and were described as associated with lions, storms, desert, and disease. Early portrayals of lilitu are known as having Zu bird talons for feet and wings.[1] Later accounts depict lilitu as a name for one figure and several spirits. Similar demons from the same class are recorded around this time frame. Lilu, a Succubus, Ardat lili ("Lilith's handmaid"), who would come to men in their sleep and beget children from them, and Irdu lili, the incubus counterpart to Ardat lili.[4] These demons were originally storm and wind demons, however later eytmology made them into night demons.
Lilith's epithet was "the beautiful maiden". She was described as having no milk in her breasts and was unable to bear any children.[5][6] Babylonian texts depict Lilith as the prostitute of the goddess Ishtar. Similarly, and corresponding to Babylonian depictions, older Sumerian accounts state that Lilitu is called the handmaiden of Inanna or 'hand of Inanna'. The texts say that "Inanna has sent the beautiful, unmarried, and seductive prostitute Lilitu out into the fields and streets in order to lead men astray". That is why she is called the 'hand of Inanna'.[7][8]
Identical to the Babylo-Sumerian Lilitu, the Akkadian Ardat-Lili and the Assyrian La-bar-tu presided over temple prostitution. Ardat is derived from "ardatu", a title of prostitutes and young unmarried women, meaning "maiden". Like Lilith, Ardat Lili was a figure of disease and uncleanliness. One magical text tells of how Ardat Lili had come to "seize" a sick man.[1] Other texts mention Lamashtu as the hand of Inanna/Ishtar in place of Lilitu and Ardat lili.
Lilith is also identified with ki-sikil-lil-la-ke, a female being in the Sumerian prologue to the Gilgamesh epic.[9][1][10][11] Ki-sikil-lil-la-ke is sometimes translated as Lila's maiden, companion, his beloved or maid, and she is described as the "gladdener of all hearts" and "maiden who screeches constantly".[1] Another female being (or ephithet for Lilith) is mentioned alongside Ki-sikil-lil-la-ke: Ki-sikil-ud-da-ka-ra or "the maiden who has stolen the light" or " the maiden who has seized the light" and identifies her with the moon.[1][12]
Likewise, the earliest reference to a demon similar to Lilith and companion of Lillake/Lilith is on the Sumerian king list, where Gilgamesh's father is named as Lillu.[9][1] Little is known of Lillu (or Lilu, Lila) and he was said to disturb women in their sleep and had functions of an incubus.[1][13]
Hope you find this interesting. People in the community have spoken about Lilith so much that she isn't interesting to me anymore and I don't believe she is the Mother of vampyres.
Forgot to say something...I don't pay much attention to gaming books such as the Book of Nod unless I have researched the author of the particular book and know for sure that all information was extracted from a good source. With games they sometimes put mythology in and add their own. One cannot take it as absolute fact. Many think Nod was a place but it wasn't...It was a metaphorical phrase meaning a nomadic lifestyle. No settled place to live. Put out to wander.
The Church has a vast amount of scrolls and information that do not appear in the Bible or as common knowledge. They only release the information that THEY want you to have. Usually the information given is that which benefits them in some way.
does anyone know what chapter and verse that they mention lilith in? I have looked and asked no one around me knows.....
Very insightful Lady. I do agree, game books take certain things and twist them into something sellable. The Book of Nod, however neat to read, is nothing more than a Whitewolf novel.
Hypothetically, and assuming such things might exist, wouldn't it just be grand if there was a whole conspiracy about her? Something like the Da Vinci Code? Hypothesis:
The snake (Satan) helped her to eat the Forbidden Fruit, and God struck her down before she could "taint" Adam, and gave him a new wife. When they both eat the fruit, again because of the serpent, God struck him down as well (noting the fall of Lucifer) and him and Lilith were in Hell. They were Hell's "Adam and Eve" and they had seven children together (see where I'm going with this?)
They're first sons were the Seven Sins, and that's how they came to be. Thus humanity in itself began to fall when they were unleashed on Earth.
This makes for a good story, I think.
Then again, how ridiculous does this sound? lol.
The only reference to Lilith in the Bible (Old or New Testaments) is Isaiah 34:14, probably written around 540 BC; it's a description of desolation, jackals and ravens among nettles and briers, etc.: "Goat demons shall greet each other; there
too the lilith will repose." Most of the other creatures referenced in this poetry cannot be positively identified. The KJV, following the Vulgate, translates "the lilith" as "the night demon," confusing the lili- with the Hebrew word for night. But presumably Isaiah meant some sort of demon.
people forget that men wrote history and with the churches they only put what they feel is relevent to be known to the people and that is sad that they have that power yet many have still wrote the truth and we just have to look and research for it...
true, men wrote many of the bibles and deemed what the other factions of society would believe in. lilith a figure in history true or false, first bride of adam or first vampire facts or fiction I believe both
I personally don't understand why the fact that the theory of "Lilith" isn't mentioned in the Bible's version of the creation of man and woman has any bearing on anything. There are tons of different manuscripts that have many different opinions on this particular thing..none of which can be proven.
You believe in what you believe in. While you may disagree with one ideal or another, you really cannot say what actually is..because you can prove nothing.
What we're looking at isn't a conspiracy of the church, or anti feminists, or government control, or a drunken scribe of King James tampering with reality..it's simply "What do I choose to believe?"
Discussions like this will go round and round without ever reaching a conclusive accepted theory..because there are no absolutes.
religion and politics..they do go hand-in -hand..there have been many versions of the bible. king james was not the first or last ruler to have his own version of the bible.....henry the 8th started his own church!
I believe that the bible doesnt reconize this fact because she rejected Adam ..
And I don't understand you saying 'The Bible' doesn't recognize it. What you have is a fragmented story. The Bible DOES recognize the creation of a woman before Eve- before Eve was created, Genesis says, 'male and female, He created them'.
Now... i am curious... (and lazy)
Is lilith mentioned in the apocrypha?
If so, could you quote chapter and verse?
The bible and anything to do with the bible just really confuses me. That why I prefer to stay away from anything religious.
I have a king James version and i will look to see were it is but it does mention Lilith but mine is also like 27 years old.
There is a pretty good book called the Book of Lillith that talks about her and shows scriptures of her. It pulls out pieces of the bible and other books and talks where they fit in and where she fits in
I actually ordered mine through Walden Books. I had to ask for it.
Also you might be able to find it through Amazon.com
"The Book of Lilith"
Written by: Barbara Black Koltuv, Ph.D.
publisher is nicolas-hays inc
She is also mentioned in the Hebrew-English Babylonian Talmund and in the Zohar.
Thankies :) more research for me, yay! I would never be caught dead having a normal summer and hanging out with friends!
lol. you're welcome. the book of lilith is a long read. its a short book, but it goes in depth and is hard to follow in some places.
Sure haven't I did read one called the Historian. Good Book..but took me forever to finish it. i got lost multiple times
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Cartomancer Arch Sire (194) Posts: 1,252 Honor: 32,415 [ Give / Take ] |
I just deleted a couple posts here- please stay on topic and take the rest to private message, thanks :D
If I find anymore Lilith Books I will post them./ I think the Book of lilth was like $14
Oops, sorry... I get sidetracked. Anyway, I stick by my (supposed) theory lol. It just makes sense to me, if you believe in such things, that after her brief stint with Adam, Lilith would have sons with Lucifer. I would, anyway, over Adam.
Lilith was actually cast out of Eden because of her veiw on her place, in bed or out. She wanted to be dominate in the garden. She would not be on the bottom in bed. So she was cast out of eden and turned to the fallen angels. when they mated/bred they created the demons and such that now plague the earth. She's kinda like a biblical Pandora
Lilith is never mentioned in the bible because she was a "starperson" (someone from another galaxy "so they say") so the church made her out to be a demon so they banned that information from being put in the bible.
its because men wrote the bible. they portrayed women as evil and lillith was their pet peeve. she refused yo haave sex with adam when he wanted so, she was a no good wife. evil. vampire. theres where it came from!
Remember, only what was approved was viewed a scripture and the other stories as folklore. Men put this together so you can see the conflict. I'm not a Hebrew scholar, but the Hebrew scriptures were meant to show a clear line between "good and evil". The story of Lillith (and many more) do not fit the "mold".
Always been a fan of lilith.
And yes, i have wondered why the king james bible never mentioned her.
I have yet to look into this.
But kudos to a nice topic of a forum!
It was King James who didn't want it to be known that women and men we created equal and meant to be parteners so that part was left out or changed so that women were to be subservient to men. King James also liked to see women in pain so during child birth made women lay flat on their backs to make it more painful to give birth rather then squatting which was how it was done originally.
I personally do not believe in the bible so I don't know why it would not be mentioned their, but what ever. I don't know what to tell you, sorry.
Interpretation..
If you try hard enough you can find whatever you want to find it different literature. Why else would there be so many different religions who believe in the same book...but different theologies.
One interpretation is that the first chapter of Genesis is viewed as an introduction, and then the second chapter goes more deeply into detail about the creation of Adam and Eve. This is the interpretation that most "Christians" use today.
You will never prove either one. It will ALWAYS come down to personal faith.
What does religious control have to do with this topic?
There are many different religions in this nation...and they all have control within their own realms, over their own followers. There are areas of predominance, where a majority of the population is a certain religion, and therefore they carry out their lives and interact in their neighborhoods in the manner in which they believe. That doesn't actually give reason for the idea that they have control. It's simply location and beliefs of that region.
There are literal thousands of religious groups in the United States alone..all believing differently, none in utter agreement.
The world is not governed by religion anymore than it is governed by a person's definition of love, or a person's views on morality. Influenced, yes. Controlled, no.
The Bible is no more a scandal than the Koran or the Book of Mormon, or any number of vampiric books meant to give instruction to it's followers.
That's why this is an ongoing controversy..because no one knows for sure...so they speculate and find reason to believe how they want to believe.
It's not an issue of control. It's an issue of choice.