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Plants with souls?
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MalicSaraphim
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15:53:05 Apr 01 2008
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Do you think a tree, flower, or any other plant can have it's own soul? If you believe in reincarnation, do you think one can be reincarnated into a plant?

Some religions believe the answer is certainly yes, what do you think?




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BloodxXxOverDose
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16:08:01 Apr 01 2008
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anything is possible,even things that seem far fetched at times can have some kind of truth to it,some eastern religions believe every object has a living soul and a purpose.



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cadrewolf
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16:24:56 Apr 01 2008
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Many of HP Lovecraft stories believed in the souls of trees and tree spirits, yet a question to you is are they not living things. And for this would they not have a spirit or maybe a soul. What I believe in.



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MalicSaraphim
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16:27:21 Apr 01 2008
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So anything living has a soul you think? Does that mean all the bacteria flying around have souls too?



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VotreLouve
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16:37:02 Apr 01 2008
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Soul, no. Spirit, yes. To me they are two different things.



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cadrewolf
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16:47:37 Apr 01 2008
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why would we be the only thing with a soul, or spirit. like saying we are the only intelligent life here on this world or the next, my feelings.



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MalicSaraphim
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16:50:12 Apr 01 2008
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Souls don't equal intelligence, and just because we may not be the only ones with souls doesn't mean EVERY living creature has the right to a soul. Some living things are too puny for a soul, in my opinion.



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Gwendolyn
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16:54:28 Apr 01 2008
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I am not sure if I believe in them having souls per se or if they have a living entity in them. I do believe yes life forms, but perhaps not a soul. Just my thoughts is all.



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cadrewolf
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17:09:40 Apr 01 2008
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Gwendolyn i seem to like your answer more than mine, maybe that is what i was trying to achieve. thanks



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hottubmolly
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17:26:08 Apr 01 2008
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characteristics maybe even personality... its just... soul?

yeah ok, i have a hard time beleiving anything has a soul... so uh ... hey this isnt some april fools stunt?



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mysticwinds
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18:28:07 Apr 01 2008
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People were created from seed as well as animials. Plants are also created by seed. Do we not nourish and take care of the plants we ourselves grow?

I cannot remember what Indian tribebbelieves that the spirit of their tribal members that passed on the spirit lives in the trees.

Spirits yes.



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Sinora
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18:47:02 Apr 01 2008
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I don't know that Soul or spirit is the right word.

All of nature, all things alive in fact have their own energy.

Being that I believe in progession I would have to say no, I don't think humans are reincarnatd into plants or animals.

If it were so then that would be a backwards step in evolution of the spirit.



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WolfEye
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19:16:26 Apr 01 2008
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I believe everything should be treated as divine no matter what.



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SarraS
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21:08:42 Apr 01 2008
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For the original question one would first need to ask for a valid definition of soul.



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Hibiki
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21:17:45 Apr 01 2008
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i think so. i believe all living things have souls



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rosho
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21:38:02 Apr 01 2008
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It believe in a soulless plant, so I guess I believe in plant that has a soul.



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tknight78
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21:42:01 Apr 01 2008
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they have life energy to grow so i guess they can have a soul



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Meska
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22:12:24 Apr 01 2008
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PLants have soul anything in nature has a soul



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HeWantsRevenge
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22:21:49 Apr 01 2008
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I don't believe that every thing has a soul, like someone else before me has stated, "maybe it's own energy, but not a soul". So I do not think that any one can be reincarnated as a plant.



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VAMPIRAinacoffin
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22:24:04 Apr 01 2008
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it has to have....it's a living thing...



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Heartstrings
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22:51:16 Apr 01 2008
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plants most certainly do have souls they interact with the environment around them as being brought back as one i think that falls into the matter of personal belief on weather or not you believe in that i for one feel you come back as the same person



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WolfEye
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23:57:03 Apr 01 2008
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To me they are living and my god and goddess live in everything.



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PandorasBx
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01:48:01 Apr 02 2008
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The animating and vital principle in humans, credited with the faculties of thought, action, and emotion and often conceived as an immaterial entity.
soul (n.) The spiritual nature of humans, regarded as immortal, separable from the body at death, and susceptible to happiness or misery in a future state.
soul (n.) The disembodied spirit of a dead human.

As per the American Heritage Dictionary.

That said, I find it hard to believe that plants feel emotions and I do not believe in reincarnation.



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AgentAbhorrence
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01:56:00 Apr 02 2008
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I believe that plants have no souls, but they do have an energy that allows them to live.



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FictionalFantasy
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01:56:27 Apr 02 2008
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I believe that the plants do have a soul. Every living thing on this planet has a soul. They may not have feelings like humans do but that does not mean that they do not have souls.



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PandorasBx
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01:58:48 Apr 02 2008
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The definition of a soul says you DO have feelings so you are contradicting your answer.....



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rosho
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03:17:31 Apr 02 2008
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I certianly believe a soul has to create energy, and to grow and die. Therefore I think a plant has a spirit.



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Jamie
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05:03:46 Apr 02 2008
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I don't know. But I do know that they "feel". I saw a show once about how trees communicate with other trees. One was being attacked by something, I can't recall what it was, but it sent out signals telling other trees to be on guard because of it, and they closed leaves more and responded. It was so cool.

It physically pains me to see trees, etc. get cut down or destroyed. Some people are idiots.



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AsTrAlRoMaNcE
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05:12:21 Apr 02 2008
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Anything is possible but do i beleive this not reaaly... It seems far catched but i could be very wrong and may change my views in the future



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UTAHVAMP
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05:32:11 Apr 02 2008
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I think they do, but not liek ours, they are living organisms, I have a plant that actually will die overnight if you speak negatively to it, kinda weird, but very fasinating. As per a person reincarnating as a plant, I dont think so....we are differant creatures and all, but who knows anything is possible.



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Jamie
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05:33:02 Apr 02 2008
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They also did studies where they played Mozart and other classical music for plants and they grew very well. They played heavy metal and it killed them.

Plants are smart. ;)



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UTAHVAMP
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05:42:08 Apr 02 2008
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Very true indeed, there is something about them, maybe we could learn from plants.



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ShatteredGlassHeart
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06:24:34 Apr 02 2008
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I agree that trees, flowers, etc. all have souls. They're living organisms just like humans and animals. It would make perfect sense for them to have souls, especially for those who believe that if you talk to house plants or garden plants in a positive manner, they will have better chances of growing and manifesting themselves to provide beautiful foliage, fruits, etc.

Just like other people and animals, plants should be treated with respect. Always remember the three-fold rule of thumb :)



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MalicSaraphim
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13:10:49 Apr 02 2008
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Wow, I never knew trees were that smart! Thanks for those posts you two.. they were great.

Well if plants "feel", then they certainly have souls.



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Lightningsking
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13:19:02 Apr 02 2008
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I believe that anything that is living has some form of a soul. But I dont believe in reincarnation



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NightmareofSin
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14:11:29 Apr 02 2008
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Why would a plant have a soul? Thats like saying that anything living like the common cold has a soul. Or the flu viris has a soul. People dont believe that the cold has a soul, why would they believe that a plant does?



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MalicSaraphim
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14:13:46 Apr 02 2008
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Because plants are a bit more.. alive than the flu? They have history, they have power. Plant life is part of human life.. viruses only kill people.



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alixaryon
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I am really not sure about if do they have a soul like a human has. Plants are in hinduism described as alive, just the only difference is that they do not possess a mind like a human or an animal does, so it is ok to eat plants since they do not feel pain since they aparently have no mind. Since they do not have a mind as said, I guess the presence of the soul is also absent. On the other hand, once I was watching a documentary movie about the plants and trees, where scientists recorded on a wawe machine, that a tree or a plant releases something wich is unherable by our human ear, and wich in reallity seems to be screaming, real screaming in horror, once the human starts to aproach toward the plant or a tree with the intention of cutting it. They concluded further by some other additional research that a plant or a tree do have its own feelings. This associates me on the idea that plants and trees after all are equaly alive as we are, but since they are diferently built, they cannot expresse them selfs as we can, but I do not think that makes them less in value. I guess everything has its own sort of a soul, especialy if it is performing a function of life, like one trees or plants do. It is a sort of life, so I guess there is soul present as well.


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AngelofDusk
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I believe that every thing that breaths moves grows or otherwise shows signs of life have a soul of sorts. a rock not so much.... but things that grow live and die i think will.... I have absolutely no proof or works cited to base this on... just personal belief



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Fictions
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Hmm ...it depends. Usually the belief in reincarnation means you still have lessons to learn --some lessons probably wouldn't go well with being a tree or a grapevine, but who knows.



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sawblade
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19:38:25 Apr 02 2008
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i dont no for sure but i have friends who talk to there plants and they say that helps them grow.



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alixaryon
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sawblade, thats actually quite true. My mother used to do that, she always had lots of different plants in the house wich she was cultivating and taking care of, and was practicing the same belief(if one says to that plant that it is a nice plant, it will aparently get it, and will grow better, happier. I guess it is understanding and picking up the positive vibration in a way.) so I guess it has to be a certain fact behind that practice/belief. Plants seem to have a certain sense of emotion and understanding of their own, although we cant see it so easy.

I found that always to be a funny thing to do. lol



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karnstein
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depends what you mean by soul. all things have a spirit, but not all things have a soul. estate agents for example.

i certainly believe that a person can be reincarnated as a tree. some people believe that inanimate objects can contain the soul of a person who has died. like chucky for example. yeah, i know thats just from a film, but some people will swear blind that a car or even a chair is possessed by the soul of its former owner. some parapsychologists believe that is how a haunting works - the bricks and mortar of a house become permeated with the spirit or soul of a dead person. if bricks can contain a soul, why not a living plant?



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CherryAdvocaat
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I've thought about this before. I remember hearing once about a man who strongly believed that he was a tree in a past life. Why not, I suppose.
Too tired to think about it anymore right now though *falls over*



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Airianna
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Yes in the Native american way, everything from a rock to a tree to the animals and human all had souls.
I blieve there is a spirit more or less in them, you can feel it when you place your hand on them. I can hear them "talk" almost. I am a earth snake so yea its easier for me to hear them, more so then someone that is fire, or water.



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xLoreleix
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23:39:15 Apr 03 2008
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I believe you may have started out life as a plant when your soul was first created. I do believe plants have souls! The Aura is the energy field created by your soul... and all things have aura's unless they are an inanimate object. So for me yes plants even a blade of grass has souls.

I think I am afraid of lawn mowers because I started out as a blade of grass :P



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Thedog
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02:32:26 Apr 04 2008
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Plants have souls? Nope.

Plants have spirits? Nope.

Plants have life force, or life energy. Yes.

I believe sentient beings are required to be able to manifest a soul or a spirit. At the moment, the plants, fungi, baterium, and plankton don't cut it.



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RavenEyes
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I don't think "soul" would be the best term for it, but they most definitely have a certain life energy. Can one be reincarnated into a plant....in a sense, I suppose so. Perhaps the outflow of your personal energy when you die is recycled and could be used in the making of a plant, energy-wise....so in a sense, I'd say yes.



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JackofSpades83
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I dont think they have a soul. I think for something to have a soul it would need to have an opportunity to make an educated decision. Plants seem far too automatic to qualify in my opinion.



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Kontradiction
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03:15:47 Apr 04 2008
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honestly, i think anything living has a spirit inside of it..it comes from my Native American Heritage....



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SexyIceGoddess
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yes I think that every living thing has a soul and that soul goes to what ever heaven it or you believe in



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missmasochist
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I believe that anything that can be destroyed has a soul of some sort.



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WolfEye
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To me I believe everything has a soul. And should be treated with respect.



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JackofSpades83
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I agree that all living things should be treated with respect but that doesn't mean that I think they all have a soul.



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karnstein
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again we are getting to the difference between a spirit and a soul. a soul means free will, self determinalism, or at least a self awareness. okay, there is no way to show whether a plant has self awareness as we know it. they can react to a stimuli - but then so can a battery operated toy. that does not mean that "Toy Story" is true.

maybe a single plant has no soul - but i believe a forest can have a soul.



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SITH27
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plants are very powerful and are used for many different things....yes i beleive that you can come back as a plant



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LS
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I believe our soul is the energy that runs through us. Of course, plants are living and have energy too; so why not? ;)=



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Kryptick
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I don't think plants have a SOUL, necessarily...I mean they are undoubtedly alive and are very important things in our every day life...but I don't believe that they think, therefore, don't have a soul. To me, a soul means personality.

I don't personally think you can be reincarnated as a plant, but that's just my own opinion.



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KCMae
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i believe in reincarnation but i dont think you can become a plant. I think if plants do have spirits the spirit is too much of a difference between that of a human and a plant.



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Alyshia
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I believe that plants do not have the mortal energy to carry a soul.



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temporary2
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I believe in reincarnation but had never considered coming back as a plant. i do know each plant has a certain energy associated with them. A soul not sure.



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Primogen
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I believe they do, just its wants and needs are much more simpler.

If you want to bring it back to reincarnation a plant would be a medium to tech a soul to enjoy the smaller things in life, to limit materialism, to ground someone.



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XSilverxMoonxNightX
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I don't think it's possible for a plant ot posses a soul (no nervous system) no pain no love no hate. that sorta thing I don't bleieve in reincarnation either but I've heard others who do say that when reincanated u are reincarnated in to either another person, a bug an animal it is something that moves.



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ladydragon423
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08:25:04 Apr 06 2008
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I don't know. Anything is possible. But the reason that plants respond so well to people talking to them is because they absorb the carbon dioxide that we breath out on them. Oh, I know that's not so romantic as thinking they have a soul. I think that whole life force idea is plausible. Hell, what do I know. I can't wait to die and find out....unless I get reincarnated again...



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demonicflipper
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08:45:04 Apr 06 2008
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I don't think that they do. If they did, how come they don't have feelings and do they grow wild and without water? or with at least very little water



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Whispersinthewind
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08:47:29 Apr 06 2008
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Though I find this to be a very reaching question, since both the proof that the "soul" exists and the theory of the reincarnated being a plant.

Thoughts would be very misconstrude and taken out of context when it comes to the souls play with living matter.



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AlchemistDamned
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17:28:30 Apr 06 2008
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No, I do not believe plants have souls. I feel they have a form of connection with the rest of the world but no soul.



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menerfecious
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17:38:19 Apr 06 2008
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I believe that plants are a form of life. It is my opinion that all plants and all forms of life, no matter how obscure, have a soul.



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EternalXRage
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22:12:14 Apr 06 2008
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No, I don't think that trees, plants, or any other plant like thing have individual souls. Maybe one soul, the soul of the earth but that would be it. that's my thought on it anyway.



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NartinaLeMaliki
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22:19:08 Apr 06 2008
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_To me, all living things have spirits. Maybe not souls. When you think about it, what is a soul? It's a part of the person themselves, their personality. Maybe plants and what not do not have a soul, but rather a spiritual energy that is united and formed in the earth._



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Jyrky
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23:22:48 Apr 06 2008
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No. I don't believe plants have souls or spirits.
Energy, yes. But then, I believe that everything has it's own type of energy. Else it was not exist.
To me, plants are too close to an inanimate object to have anything resembling a soul and such.



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Dragonrouge
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00:01:12 Apr 07 2008
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Well at first, thinking that oriental teachings that a plant (or even a ARTIFICIAL OBJECT!!) could have a soul, just apeared funny to me.

Later I realized that some beings that don`t have a language that we could understand have a pretty big level of abstract intelligence (pidgeons are a good example), I begun to doubt.

Now I think that plants have a soul too.Of course thay can`t communicate.I practice the spagiric alchemy and I think that there are some forms of energy (we could call them souls) that have a high degreee of abstraction.



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Pantervamp
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00:53:03 Apr 07 2008
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Interesting question. Somehow i belive everything living have somekind of a soul even plants. But not the same kind of souls as we human have.



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Reddarkice
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09:15:41 Apr 07 2008
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I think plants and trees have souls but I don't think we come back as them.



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MorbidAngels15
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11:15:51 Apr 07 2008
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thats a hard question to answer, plants are living, and living things have souls, so maybe they do or they don't



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Pantervamp
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11:18:40 Apr 07 2008
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Plants are intelligent forms of life who are capable of intention, have preferences, a will to live and souls. Scientific research indicates that plants communicate with insects, animals, human beings and other plants in order to keep themselves alive and safe. Evidence also reveals that plants are telling us how to achieve health and wholeness for humanity and the earth herself.

In research which spans more than 100 years, scientists have been documenting botanical adaptability and the amazing similarities that plants have with animals and people. Studies indicate that what metaphysicians, psychics, shaman, tribal people and sensitives worldwide have been saying about the plant kingdom for millennia is true: plants are intelligent beings who can communicate with us, and, we can communicate with them.

In the book, "The Secret Life of Plants," authors Peter Tompkins and Christopher Bird describe how plants "talk to" people and what plants "talk" about. Staying alive and safe tops the list.

To protect themselves, plants have developed highly adaptive and strategic ways for living. According to the authors, "Plants seem to know which ants will steal their nectar, closing when these ants are about, opening only when there is enough dew on their stems to keep the ants from climbing. The more sophisticated acacia plant actually enlists the protective services of certain ants which it rewards with nectar in return for the ants’ protection against other insects and herbivorous mammals," thus serving the same function as friends and allies do in the animal and human realms. Some vegetation develop a bitter taste, some ooze gummy secretions, while others grow thorns to defend themselves.

Once plants feel safe, however, they may drop their need for defense. In one study, a scientist wanted to determine if cacti grow needles primarily for the purpose of keeping themselves from harm. Safely housed in a greenhouse, the scientist talked to numerous cacti assuring them that they were protected and that he cared about them. He encouraged the plants to feel even more secure by playing soothing music in the greenhouse. Within several months the cacti dropped all their spikes. The offspring of these bare cacti were born without needles. Defenseless within this nurturing environment, the mature and new-born cacti prospered. After a period of a year of being without their protective quills, the cacti suddenly began regrowing their bristles and new baby sprouts were born with needles again. After some investigation, it was discovered that a house cat had found its way into the greenhouse. Suspecting that the cat may be the source of the perceived threat to the cacti causing the reemergence of their means of protection, the scientist blocked the cat’s way of entry. Once the cacti sensed they were once again safe, all of the cacti dropped their prickly means of defense.

Plants respond not only to insects and animals but to human emotion and intention. Plants can distinguish between people who are feel kindly towards them and people who don’t, and our green friends cooperate with people they like. In one experiment a new scientist came to study some test plants. Surprisingly, these test plants which previously had been very responsive, were completely non-responsive during the new scientist’s tests. Investigating the change in the plants’ response, it was discovered that the new scientist incinerated his plants in his own personal research once his tests were completed. Shortly after the new scientist left, the plants again began registering activity and cooperating.

In another study, scientists found that vegetation reacted negatively to people who found the plants unattractive, even to the extent that the plants would "faint." When over-stimulated by emotions, plants will "go unconscious" or numb and can stay "moody" for weeks. Scientific studies show that once plants attune themselves to a particular person, they are able to maintain a link with that person, no matter how far away. These plants register "knowing" not only when a person is returning to the plants, but when the person makes the decision to return. Other reports show that plants respond to people talking to them in a caring, loving manner, such as asking a tree to radically change its growth direction so that it won’t have to be cut, or asking weeds not to grow excessively in a vegetable garden (see "Magic Garden" story above) .

In order to stay alive, plants have learned to move and do so in remarkable fashion, for extraordinary purposes and with high, extra-sensory intelligence. "Plants," says Viennese biologist, Raoul France "move their bodies as freely, easily and gracefully as the most skilled animal or human, and the only reason we don’t appreciate the fact is that plants do so at a much slower pace than humans. A climbing plant which needs a prop will creep toward the nearest support. Should this support be shifted, the vine, within a few hours, will change its course into a new direction." Plants will even grow towards a support that’s hidden from view. France continues, "Plants are capable of intent: they can stretch toward, or seek out, what they want in ways as mysterious as the most fantastic creations of romance." As Thomkins and Bird relate, "Some parasitical plants can recognize the slightest trace of the odor of their victim and will overcome all obstacles to crawl in its direction."

Through their animated responses to classical and heavy rock music, plants further divulge their preferences. In studies of plants exposed to heavy rock music, the plants not only grew away from the music source, but some grew either abnormally tall and put out excessively small leaves or remained stunted. In some cases the plants died. When classical music was played to the plants, the plants grew toward the music source with healthy growth. The same plants, marigolds, who died when listening to rock music, flowered when listening to classical music. The authors report, "the rock-stimulated plants were using much more water than the classically entertained vegetation, but apparently enjoying it less, since examination of the roots revealed that soil root growth was sparse in the rock group, whereas in the classical group, root growth was thick, tangled and about four times as long."

In India, Dr. T. C. Singh, in his studies of music and plants, stated that he had "proven beyond any shadow of doubt that harmonic sound waves affect the growth, flowering, fruiting and seed-yield of plants." Singh also reported that girls dancing India’s most ancient dance style accelerated the growth of daisies, marigolds and petunias. The dancing caused them to flower much earlier than the control group of plants, presumably because of the rhythm of the footwork transmitted through the earth.

Kirlian photography is now able to verify the existence of living, changing light radiating from plants. And many "seers" and scientists have seen light emanations and moving forms coming from plants. Hindu sages refer to devas. Clairvoyants and other sensitives are able to directly see and communicate with the fairies, elves, gnomes, sylphs and other creatures which live in and among plants.

Tompkins and Bird conclude, "Evidence now supports the vision that plants are living, breathing, communicating creatures, endowed with personality and the attributes of soul


Source: http://www.sedonavisionquest.com/plants_have_soul-and_gifts_for_humans.htm


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demonnous1xx
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12:25:54 Apr 07 2008
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I believe in reincarnation but not to where a human would be reborn as a tree or flower. I don't think a plant or tree would have a soul like a human does, just maybe a life force energy.



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alixaryon
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14:48:37 Apr 07 2008
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Pantervamp, thank you very much for this fascinating piece of information. It is indeed astonishing. It shows so much, it shows how much we do not know.

I believe that this is as well a perfect answer to the original question; "Do you think a tree, flower, or any other plant can have it's own soul?".

It proves that the answer can be only positive, yes plants/trees/flowers have a soul, and they are so fascinating out of the reason wich is very slow to be observed by our naked casual eye.

The research proves that they do have intention, they do have fears, they do show the tendency/wish/will to preserve them selves in best condition as possible(they defend them self by adapting), not to mention the level of communication wich plants are exibiting toward their environment, and all this at the end concludes that plants are aware of their bodies, they are very well aware of their existence, they really are alive, and with that logicaly, as the living organisms/sistems, certanly they do possess a soul(as everything living does),

as the statements/conclusions of Peter Tompkins and Christopher Bird;

"Tompkins and Bird conclude, "Evidence now supports the vision that plants are living, breathing, communicating creatures, endowed with personality and the attributes of soul"

Now this is of course catapulting me back to the other part of the question; "If you believe in reincarnation, do you think one can be reincarnated into a plant?"

Believing in to the process of reincarnation of the soul back to the material world, and taking another suitable body/form, living another life in that body/form, as a mean of further learning wich should serve to the proper evolution of ones soul, leaves us at that conclusion where we understand that the answer is as well positive, that the answer is yes, that one can be reincarnated, in to a plant, or a tree, taking that body/form as its next process or learning here in this next incarnation of ones soul. It is naturaly ungraspable to many, but the soul has its own ways of learning and understanding the whole, the way it is(as the altogheter Universe does and it works/functions that way tirelessly, toward completition/perfection as a process wich we/learning souls are part of), and until it can reach that level of understanding, ones path of learning trough experience is diverse, and it will include many forms as means of development, as well one of a plant/tree/flower.

So to finaly conclude, yes, I believe it is possible, not only that I think it is possible, but I believe as well that one is about to take that path, or one already had, as a process of his own personal evolution of the soul, trough reincarnation, trough learning experiences, learning the property and correctness of things, and they way they should be, until the completition has been reached for every single soul trough learning.



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MistressBloodDiamonds
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00:36:12 Apr 08 2008
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They have done studies and found that when you rip a carrot from the ground it screams.. So yeah I guess they could..



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Desmond
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01:09:56 Apr 08 2008
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I would like to think plants do, tho it may not be a soul like we think, i do belive the have energy be it positive or negitive.



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LivNdedGirl
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10:05:21 Apr 08 2008
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i believe Pantervamp summed it up nicely i was just gonna say that when i was younger i watched a show that took shrimp in a bucket and a plant sitting next to the shrimp they hooked up a machine simular to a lie detector test theyhad it attached to the plant and when they poored hot water over the shrimp the plant went crazy the needles moved off the chart. so i believe YES



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Druidic
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14:03:01 Apr 08 2008
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Fascintating and thanks for this thread!

Yes, plants do have souls/spirits (one and the same to me) and yes you can incarnate into one.

You can also incarnate into stones, air, light, a concept..... To trually learn all you can from physical incarnation, you must experience all.



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DarkVampiress
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17:50:03 Apr 08 2008
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They say plants have feeling like us or animals, and we have souls so why wouldn't plants. I believe people and animals can be reincarnated at plants, and that plants have souls. I wanna be re-incarnated as a Venus Flytrap...lol



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KINKYKUNTOX
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18:27:06 Apr 08 2008
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Definatley i have grown many a plant and the indoors ons like music



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QueenofxFOREVER
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19:53:02 Apr 08 2008
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yes, i believe any living thing has a certain thing as a soul, but certainly not like ours. I think when we die if we have a choice to go back as somehting else we can.



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• • • • THIS THREAD IS CLOSED • • • •
•  Closed by STABB666 on Apr 08 2008  •

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