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Are aliens living among us....
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jdviper
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22:04:54 Sep 14 2008
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There is alot of hype these days about aliens and E.T.'s. My question is do you think the rumors are true that they are living among us ?




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Sauron
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22:06:45 Sep 14 2008
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yes I believe they have been among us for a long time



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XxMikhailxX
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22:17:36 Sep 14 2008
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Personally wouldn't know. I do like to think we're not all alone in a vast Universe I hope they are friendly and not out to get us like in so many movies on the subject.

Mikhail



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rockingXrobin
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22:24:11 Sep 14 2008
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not sure if they are or not and if they are what they want from us .



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LovelyXDEATH35
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22:49:22 Sep 14 2008
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its hard to imagine we are the only living creature in this solar system so yes



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Nightgame
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22:55:00 Sep 14 2008
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Okay folks make your answers count and that means more than one or two words.


Personally while I have never met nor do I expect to meet an alien I do think they exist simply because the universe is so large and filled with so many planets of all different types, that to think life developed only here is silly to my mind.



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WickedWhisper
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22:57:13 Sep 14 2008
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I know that's it's madness to assume that we are the only living planet in the entire universe and some parts of the universe are older than the space we inhabit so it's certainly possible for 'aliens' to have travelled here to check us out, after all we have been sending satelites,probes, radio signals and recently digital signals into space for decades. We bound to have drawn attention to ourselves.



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meeper
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23:09:31 Sep 14 2008
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There are tons of illegal aliens living among us!

As far as extra terrestrials go, I think I would need one to show up on my doorstep and say, "hello I am an alien living among you" for me to believe it. Of course there are the theories out there that the human race was brought here from another planet- a theory I shy away from as well.



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Indulgence
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23:21:49 Sep 14 2008
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This is a 'yes' or 'no' question.


Unless you wish to further expand this topic I see no reason for it to remain open.



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jdviper
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23:54:52 Sep 14 2008
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and why or why not??



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catseye
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00:09:26 Sep 15 2008
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UFOs all come from america and the fourth reich in antarctica.



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dabbler
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00:10:53 Sep 15 2008
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I settle for the idea that an existance for away can be statistically possible. Yet I will not buy the "They are here Pitch." I can imagine, like a historic list of Fiction/Sci-fi writers.. but I leave it at the Sci'fi imagined phase. I ask what purpose does aliens being here serve?



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WickedWhisper
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00:23:51 Sep 15 2008
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None, i think if they are here, they are just here to observe us. Unless they crash and we end up with their technology, then things could get interesting.



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Daileus
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00:39:57 Sep 15 2008
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yes I do. I don't think that humans are the only ones living in the universe.



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Ravena
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01:17:10 Sep 15 2008
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I'm not going to say that they aren't living among us, but i do know that we can't be the only life forms in this universe, it's to huge to only have us!



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AlexandriasAwakening
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02:32:54 Sep 15 2008
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I believe that if they are not living among us they are definatly watching us.

There is no way that in such a vast universe we are the only ones...



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xXxSKULLYxXx
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02:48:23 Sep 15 2008
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I believe theyve been around as long as human kind was around!

Photobucket

This picture is dated from 1330!



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Azzriel999
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05:13:42 Sep 15 2008
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it is believed that we have an exchange program with the aliens that visit this planet.

they are living on some of out military bases and they like vanilla ice cream.



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Juggalita
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05:42:15 Sep 15 2008
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Nah I don't think so.

If there is really life in outerspace, they will be smart enough to stay away from us.

-Juggalette givin MMFWCL



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sweetblooded
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06:01:55 Sep 15 2008
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I am sure if their is life out there that they would visit us like we visit them. I would also be surprised if we considered them life. We have a basic idea of what life is. I think that we developed the way we did because of where we live so think about it other planet require different abilities to survive on. we might never recognize life on another plant



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CryingDutchess
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08:14:39 Sep 15 2008
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Sure, why not? I have an ego -- but not one that believes humans have cornered the market on existence in the universe.


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Beastt17
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10:24:49 Sep 15 2008
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It is a known fact that humans are not the only life in the universe. I'm not sure where anyone would get the idea that we are. We're animals. There are many different species of animals right here on this planet.

Are beings from other planets living among us? It's possible. I would say it's highly improbable, but certainly possible.

Are there beings living on other planets in the universe? The odds that other beings don't exist on other planets seems astronomical.

We tend to think of the Earth as being fairly large and compared to us it is. But if we expand to the scale of the solar system, we find that all of the planets combined account for only 0.135% of the mass of the solar system (the rest is the sun). Ninety percent of that (.1215%) is distributed between Saturn and Jupiter. The tiny speck that's left (0.0135%) is split up between the other 5 planets and the Earth (plus dwarf planets, comets, asteroids, etc.). Obviously, even on the scale of the solar system the Earth is but a fleck of matter.

If we move outside of the solar system we find it would be necessary to travel for 4.3 years, at the speed of light, to reach the star nearest our sun, Proxima Centauri. But that still leaves us nestled down deeply into our galaxy, the Milky Way. The Milky Way contains between 100-billion and 125-billion stars.

To get to the galaxy nearest to ours, (the Andromeda Galaxy), we would have to travel at the speed of light for 2.9 million years. And that accounts for only two of the galaxies of the 100-billion or so in the known universe.

It seems beyond plausibility to even entertain the idea that we (the organisms of the Earth), are alone in the universe. But I think it's relatively safe to assume that all of the organisms presently on Earth, derived from Earth.




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Daileus
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11:19:33 Sep 15 2008
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yes but who is to say that life forms don't exist on other planets? it is possible that there is an unknown planet out there that is inhabited by a completely different creature. or maybe even another planet inhabited by humans!!!



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Beastt17
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11:47:19 Sep 15 2008
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re: My question is do you think the rumors are true that they are living among us ?

To answer the question as it is asked, thereby remaining on-topic; No, I don't believe it to be probable that creatures native to other planets are living among us.

As for whether or not they exist on other planets, I suppose that's another topic, right?

*saved*


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mysticwinds
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17:44:48 Sep 15 2008
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The Egyptian's had writings on the walls of the pryramids of distant travelers.

There has also been theories that Teddy Rosevelt was aducted for three days by aliens. These aliens taught him about saving nature.

Also, another theory is Hilter was visited by aliens and that is were he gained his knowledge about warfare.

I attend a lecture years ago on this. Whether theory or fact...it may only remain a mystery until I see one.



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fallenangel51
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18:06:08 Sep 15 2008
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Yes I believe they are here and have been among us for some time.



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dabbler
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18:22:18 Sep 15 2008
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"Nah I don't think so.

If there is really life in outerspace, they will be smart enough to stay away from us."

You go Juggalita.. High Five on the direct approach.



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dabbler
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18:32:19 Sep 15 2008
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Sweet Blooded makes a point here, what would qualify as life extraterestrial, I hear we would be egotistical to think that their is no other existence on far away planets, yet it seems the same people are egocentric enough to think that that life is comparable to us.

We have only begun to explore our own anatomy, yet here people are projecting the possibility that "others" are here among us.
Some use the alien case like Christian use Jesus, they are coming to save us, somehow there is this unspoken thing that if you believe then the good aliens will share with those that believe, if not then the alien bad guys will whip us out. ?? But that's just fringe.. right?



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Lestatslittleslave
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19:27:39 Sep 15 2008
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Of course they do. Wehre would the paranormal idioms be if they didn't?



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cryingmoon
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23:41:10 Sep 15 2008
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well why the heck not, space is a big place out there, there is no way we are the only things out there



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Spiritwalker
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23:47:58 Sep 15 2008
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There's a great possibility I'd figure. We cannot be the only intelligent life-forms in the universe. That would be far too illogical.



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Ninjawoman
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01:19:08 Sep 16 2008
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I belive that there is aliens living among us they always the smart ones too (*Giggles*



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dabbler
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01:29:22 Sep 16 2008
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Out there, I can handle, here among us, what gets me is the people that claim to be "in the know" about them, I mean these guys are really out there, I have a reason to wonder if they are not Oddterrastrals Odd Earthlings FYI. I have done research on some of the other things these guys promote or endorse, and they taste anything that is served them.. on a plate labeled Super Natural.



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CherryAdvocaat
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01:39:13 Sep 16 2008
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No I don't think they live with us, I think that idea stems from seeing too many films. I am certain however that we have been visited by them many many times in the last few thousand years. This topic if you really look into it is fascinating.



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dabbler
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01:44:51 Sep 16 2008
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The fad of it fluxes, the genre changes as well, it is a cultural anomaly actually, once I think it was the70s- 80's it was Satanic Child Abuse (again a doctor taken advantage of the movie Rose Marys Baby, Then it faded out, and Aliens Merged in, in the same quack driven practices, a Fad phenomena..



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Daileus
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02:16:16 Sep 16 2008
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i think most of us agree that there is probably lifeforms on different planets. But how would they survive here on earth? Other planets don't have air right? if so maybe they came from an unknown planet. Heck, maybe they are all over and we just don't notice because they look just like everyone else. Who knows. I know a little "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" but still a cool thought.



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Jypcie
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02:25:36 Sep 16 2008
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I dont believe they are living among us. I think some one would notice, some one credible at least. Then again I could picture a Jane Goodall version of an alien blending in.



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Anansi
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16:07:13 Sep 16 2008
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Why would they want to visit a bunch of idiots like us? Well, I guess it's the same reason we like going to the zoo. ;)



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alixaryon
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According to what Alex Collier says, aliens do move among us on daily basis, those which are very similar to us, or equal looking, so we cant say a bigger difference, descending from neighboring planetary systems in our galaxy called the Milky Way.

The population of planet Earth is already of various composition, that biology that was native Earth, and that one which found its was from other planetary systems long ago, so the differences are noticed in our daily lives, but less acted upon, as perhaps first seen, so these similarities might easily enable those which are from some where else, like a different solar system per chance, but similar anyway, to move, undisputed among the mass, for who knows what purpose.

And it is not astonishing as well. The planet Earth is going trough such period of development, where shortly, it would become an interstellar force, capable of its own interstellar flights, movements, and plans, and with that capable of influencing the universe with those actions.

It is quite normal that we would have aliens roaming among us, and inspecting us in detail, what are we doing, are we dangerous, what kind of people we are, and with that what exactly influence we might release on the already existing races, and organizations, once we are fully capable of reaching those heights.

Of course, there are all those which would still stick to the thick stereotypical idea, of being the only ones in the universe, denying any possible logic idea, and which type I do not believe.



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dabbler
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19:38:08 Sep 16 2008
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Heheh.. damn thats funny .. every time..

I suggest for a grand read, "Dragons Egg", Sci-fi, by Robert Forward the all time awesomest book.



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wolfunknown
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20:09:47 Sep 16 2008
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My answer and sole belief is YES!. Why believe we are the only inteligent life forms on earth?



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Cheetahcry
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20:50:46 Sep 16 2008
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I don't think that they live among us. But I do feel that there are others in the universe and I think that they have visited us from time to time. Humans are not the only intellegent beings in the universe or on mother earth. Just my views though.

Alixaryon I think has hit the nail on the head.



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Undervampsgaze
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21:03:36 Sep 16 2008
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I mean if we are here why not other beings from other planets.. Are we that closed minded that we think we are the only ones in the universe.



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RootedinEvil
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Interesting. You know, this is totally possible. But I think that it would be pretty darn hard to hide yourself if you were from another planet.

I think our world egotistically paints a picture of an alien that is very human-like... because we can't seem to step far enough away from ourselves. For all we know, they could be floating spheres or something weird like that. To most, either all look like a Hollywood version, or they have these magical powers of morphing themselves to look just like us to fit in. I think if it is true they are here, we could never notice with the way our minds work. Because maybe they are, but we brushed them off as 'ghosts'.



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Beastt17
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I think there is quite a gap between noting the incredibly good odds that there is life elsewhere in the universe, and concluding that some of them are living with us on Earth.

One needs to consider the tremendous distances that must be traversed and what we currently see as the physical limits to traversing such distances. Warp travel makes for a good theory, but I think it's premature to conclude that it's a reasonable possibility or that other forms of life would have developed such a method or any other method which might allow them to travel from their home to ours.

That said, I think it beyond argument that we are most certainly not the only intelligent life. We have many different intelligent species living on the planet with us which appear to be indigenous to the planet. Perhaps the problem is more that we have difficulty seeing past our own focus on what constitutes important intelligence and what does not.

That extra-terrestrial life exists is highly probable.

That it exists with us on this planet, I see as highly doubtful.



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ValkreanDragoon
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22:54:09 Sep 16 2008
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I Believe there are, I have always felt since childhood a weird knowing of them and was never sure of what it was exactly until I got older, plus I have always thought, the universe is so bug that we cant be that damn speacial to be the only ones to exist in it when there are so many places we cant even go.... not to mention the different dimentions in which we dont fully understand but know of some sort of life co existing in the unseen...



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gealachlass
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05:39:19 Sep 17 2008
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I would feel sorry for any life form living here. Imagine stuck here with low technology and our treatment of others. Poor ET- go home were your safe.



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XSilverxMoonxNightX
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06:46:31 Sep 17 2008
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I think it is very true thats why we wear foil on our heads :] smiles we don't want them to control our brains those pesky aliens will do anything to learn more about our species



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Jamie
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06:55:44 Sep 17 2008
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Well it sure seems that way sometimes. And there are times that I feel like I am one of them! I bet many of us do.

Some call these people, star children.



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TrashCore
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11:51:31 Sep 17 2008
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I dont see the harm in believing they are.. But personally.. Im a skeptic, and until im shown evidence, i tend to believe its a myth..


Unless we are on about the Easter Bunny...
'cause we all know how real he is...



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Wink
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16:30:54 Sep 17 2008
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I feal that there is to much evidece of Aliens to not beleve a little bit but in my opinion they wont ever attack our planit becouse they have been watchin us 4 hundreds of years and have never shown eny sort of hostility 2words us. because they are both spiritualy and interlectualy advanced.



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dabbler
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18:33:13 Sep 17 2008
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A race that is advanced enough to travel between galexies, do they really need to probe some farmer, and butcher cattle to figure out a bunch of primates?



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CrazyOne
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19:30:37 Sep 17 2008
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i think there is but there hiding from us but who can blame them for that lol...



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Oceanne
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20:33:18 Sep 17 2008
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My opinion aside,I thought I might post this in here as well as the other ET thread...



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dabbler
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21:55:08 Sep 17 2008
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If they are here, and they did come out of hiding, the tabloids would really smother them, I mean aliens Here to take our high Tech Jobs, Putting Scientist Out to Pastor (one imaginable head line. The fringe groups will only find a new spetacular fantasy to persue.



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normski
normski

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22:30:01 Sep 17 2008
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no i dont think aliens are among us ! as there are that much famine and accidents ,earthquakes and other tradgedies that one would turn up in a morgue somewhere and it would be found and exposed! the press would spread it all over the place and we would know so no i dont think they are?



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atyourwindow
atyourwindow
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06:44:12 Sep 18 2008
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dont be silly people , hollywood has not been warning us for years in movies about aliens being here among us nor is there any such thing as et life.....ok who believed what i just said? lol



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MOONLITDREAM
MOONLITDREAM
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06:53:51 Sep 18 2008
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i think it is possible... i mean there are so many unexplainable things out here ..



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xTigressx
xTigressx

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13:07:17 Sep 18 2008
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No I couldnt say that they would be. Not saying that I dont believe they could be but I dont think they will be able to blend in.



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Trikki
Trikki

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13:36:35 Sep 18 2008
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I hope so and I hope they hurry up and take over REALLY SOON!!!



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BV
BV
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13:55:35 Sep 18 2008
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Yes and you can only see them with special sunglasses….no hang on that’s They Live, my mistake.



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Xzavier
Xzavier
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14:46:53 Sep 18 2008
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I don't see why not, I have met a few people I wonder about lol.

If aliens are "humanoid" then it would fairly easy to masquerade around as a human. Of course I fail to see the reason why an advanced species would care to come down here except for vacation or to keep us from killing ourselves.

Just a thought :)



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TragicMind69
TragicMind69
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14:59:45 Sep 18 2008
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I'd like to think so.
As a child I always liked the idea of aliens sharing the planet with us.



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Jynx
Jynx
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17:47:20 Sep 18 2008
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If they in form of spirit or Para-psychicly they can leave among us as our body can carry two souls at the time. But with their body, they can not leave unnoticed. if they are living they might be living away from human.



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Anansi
Anansi
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18:00:32 Sep 18 2008
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Give how amazingly huge the universe is, there has to be other life out there. How huge? Well, next time you're in a place where there are little pebbles, like maybe your driveway, parking lot etc, imagine one of those pebbles as being the entire solar system. Now, the rest of the surface of the earth would be the rest of the universe.



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LostKitten
LostKitten
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18:01:06 Sep 18 2008
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I believe that they live among us. I believe that we see them everyday, maybe the aliens are not so much like the ones we see on television, but they are here. It would be crazy to think that we are the only ones in this world.



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dabbler
dabbler
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18:14:08 Sep 18 2008
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One got left behind once, and my brothers friend was one of the squad that went in and domed the house to extract the alien, a young boy, and his sister found.



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Jynx
Jynx
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18:45:26 Sep 18 2008
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Yes even you are the part of the Gallaxy and the Universe, Unbroken, Your spirit, your soul till wonder in the universe, else the elemets ( your body ) you are part of the universe... Just meditate on one element space and merge into it... you will find amazing...

Aliens can not live among us in mutant form... each being love their own identity. One can live as spirit in others body and change its pigment to their own pigment... but cant live as other being downcasting their own identity... and this is the matter.... when soul take birth in one being or kinship, they treat its own kinship and can not transform into other kin if at such advance state... they cant be free to the state of no matter. this is the universe. if you are free to no matter, you become free of elemet and matters and you become infinite...

staying in body controlling the elements gainig no matter state its little highly advance state and confused me that whether it can be achieved with the use of physics, chemistry and bio-science. its like the state of drunk ambrosia or tureiya state the bliss state where when body leave you, you dont matter... coz you become the part of universe and whole universe your body and cover. you increased your age this way.

Many possibilities... I am kid not knowing this...



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Jynx
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18:54:53 Sep 18 2008
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well...

aliens already on project in Usa, Usa is working with them... its all rumours of it...



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Jynx
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19:43:22 Sep 18 2008
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They are advanced than us they rescued human kind too earlier from ice age... they are on anciient art papers too.... they raised rosewell matter too...



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MOONLITDREAM
MOONLITDREAM
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20:24:12 Sep 18 2008
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i think them aliens out here are very smart.....
and im sure the government knows this thats why its a big secret there holding there probally over taken from the aliens thats why its so secretive im sure aliens can do alot of different things as for turning into human form or blending into things or what ever it might be there aliens im sure anything is possible with them



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Novus
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15:40:36 Sep 20 2008
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I think that if aliens are intertwined with society as we know it, that they have already placed themselves in positions to blend in, and to run the world. Only my thoughts, but I have yet to meet an alien.



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raziel
raziel
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15:56:04 Sep 20 2008
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I think aliens are where we have decended from, infact its the only logical hypothesis for "Intelligent Design" if we were put here by beings from another world or galaxy. And i do believe in aliens, i have saw 1 UFO in my life, and then i actually had what i thought may have been an encounter with an alien being about 7 years ago, its a long story so i wont explain it. but i dont think they are living amoug us, but i am certain they are watching us



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Beastt17
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16:16:47 Sep 20 2008
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Panspermia (the idea that humans may have been engineered or raised by aliens and transplanted to Earth), fails to answer the question of our origin. It simply pushes the question back one notch. If we were created "from scratch" by aliens, then from where did the aliens come? Who created them? It leaves the question of origin unanswered.

The idea of Intelligent Design suggests that we should find an intelligence behind the structure of the human body at all levels, not just some levels. But when we look to the body we find many mechanisms which are best described as "unintelligent designs". For instance; a throat that serves double-duty as a passage way for food and for air. This flawed system leads to the death of thousands of people every year and yet, we find the same structure among many non-human species. The retina of our eyes has a blind spot right in the middle where the optic nerve is attached. An intelligent design would place the optic nerve to the side where it wouldn't obscure vision. Our teeth don't heal themselves or keep growing like the ivory teeth of some species. Our eyes degrade rapidly with age as does our hearing. Why would aliens construct an organism with an appendix they don't need?

We can always speculate as to our origin and whether or not there is sufficient reason to assume that extra-terrestrials are living among us yet remain unknown to us. I see no more reason to believe this to be true than to believe that real fire-breathing dragons exist in underground tunnels. Perhaps we'll find such a dragon someday. Until that day, I find disbelief to be the logical and reasonable choice and must apply the same logic and reason to the concept of aliens (extra-terrestrials), living among us.



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meanmelissa
meanmelissa
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18:01:19 Sep 20 2008
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I think anything is possible, we never know. Its possible that they have been for a while now. LOL Its funny but I used to think that my grandparents were aliens when I was little, I dont know why but maybe its because my grandma can sense when I am in trouble or having a bad day. Who knows, but the alien thing has stuck with me for all these years.



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Jynx
Jynx
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20:16:48 Sep 20 2008
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They wont stay here on earth theydont want over populated area and polluted to this level. they cant be with us to ruin there level of the advance ment and the growth of brain....

they dont like the world which fighting each other and destroy self.

we are only a being sanctuary to them and they just come to watch us, our levels and bug styles of fighting and polluting self.



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jaggedxtears
jaggedxtears
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20:32:25 Sep 20 2008
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I really don't know but I do believe they probably are amongst us posing as the average joe bag of doughnuts!



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ThisTimeImperfect
ThisTimeImperfect

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21:25:03 Sep 20 2008
Read 940 times

I think that really anything is possible. I have met some people that I really have to question rather they are human or not.



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BillytheJust
BillytheJust
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21:25:54 Sep 20 2008
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TV alien remarks and border crossings have been deleted.
~ billy



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DeadlyXDesire
DeadlyXDesire
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21:43:13 Sep 20 2008
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I do not believe that they personally live among us or if they do they must look exactly like us because I personally haven't seen anyone who would look like an alien.

However, I believe that if "God" created us what is to say that we are so arrogant to think that we are the only world in which he created? So yes, I do think they exist but don't believe they are living among us here on earth.



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MorbidMorte
MorbidMorte
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23:20:16 Sep 20 2008
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Possibly.

There's no proof that aliens exist, however saying we're the only intelligent lifeforms in the universe is ludicrious.



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Beastt17
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01:13:11 Sep 21 2008
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Re: "There's no proof that aliens exist, however saying we're the only intelligent lifeforms in the universe is ludicrious."

Especially since we have many forms of intelligent life right here on Earth, human and non-human.

I wonder when I see assertions concerning what aliens would like and wouldn't like. The truth is, we have no way to know.


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gealachlass
gealachlass
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07:03:44 Sep 21 2008
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We may never know. If they are ,their to afraid to show themselves to us. Would wind up in a lab or some dumb show on tv.



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xTigressx
xTigressx

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07:05:05 Sep 21 2008
Read 913 times

They are here, listening and watching so they would have to be amongst us somewhere.



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xTigressx
xTigressx

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07:10:51 Sep 21 2008
Read 910 times

If you have a look at the advance in technology there has to be an outside assistance in it. As soon as mankind reached out to space we have made ourselves known. We are a young and violent race I am sure that anything living in the universe would want t o keep an eye on us and what better way then to have their kind living amongst us. It would be like the old saying "being a fly on the wall".



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Beastt17
Beastt17
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09:06:56 Sep 21 2008
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The advances in technology are exactly what we should expect if we're driving the technology without help. Note the number of years Moore's Law has gone unbroken. Advances in technology drive further advances in technology so an accelerated rate is exactly what we should have and exactly what we see. Be prepared for that to continue.



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xTigressx
xTigressx

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09:53:38 Sep 21 2008
Read 900 times

very true, the human race has always advanced. There is proof showing that alien life forms have dated as far back to the caveman. In all the cultures leading up to the present day there have been some form of documentary of an alien life form. Over the yrs the form of this alien hasnt changed.



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normski
normski

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11:09:57 Sep 21 2008
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until one comes up and slaps me in the face i wont believe!



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WickedWhisper
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11:57:52 Sep 21 2008
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Like many other’s have said already, there is logically a diverse amount of ‘alien’ life out there given the size of the Universe, but personally I find it unlikely that some would actually be on this planet, but on the other hand, in the right disguise it would be a great way to find out about human’s before we actually get 'out there' as well as pre-warned is forarmed.

I think I'm going to hedge my bets on this question:)



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xTigressx
xTigressx

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13:48:44 Sep 21 2008
Read 889 times

anything that we find unfathomable we call alien to us. Therefore if there is someone who we have no idea on what, why or how they do things we call it alien. Just because something is called alien it doesnt mean it comes from outer space.



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Beastt17
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16:12:28 Sep 21 2008
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The word "alien" can have a range of meanings, however "E.T." (meaning "extraterrestrial"), is a bit more specific.



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DeadlyXDesire
DeadlyXDesire
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16:43:29 Sep 21 2008
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Beastt17...point very well made in the differences in the terms as alien is something foreign or unknown and ET being a life form of another planet.



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IveXtastedxthexrainbow
IveXtastedxthexrainbow
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07:25:40 Sep 22 2008
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i dont think or we would of discovered them



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BowieX
BowieX

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09:44:03 Sep 22 2008
Read 862 times

true very true in regards to the meanings of aliens and ET. If we take it in that contect then yes there are aliens living amongs us and no I dont believe that ET's are.



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VR System
VR System

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11:03:49 Sep 22 2008
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This thread has been automatically closed for length.



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• • • • THIS THREAD IS CLOSED • • • •
•  Closed by VR System on Sep 22 2008  •

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