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With al the stories out concerning the Holy Grail and what is meant to be, I was wondering what other people think/believe.

Is it the cup Jesus used at the Last Supper?
Is it a plate Jesus once used?
Is it a cup Jesus made while he was a carpenter?
Is it the mortal bloodline of Jesus?

Or is it something else?

I don't want this thread to be a place to case disapproval or hate towards others.

I would get into this one again but I dont feel so hot today so I thought I might post this old thread for you.It was a pretty big discussion,you might find something in there of interest.
https://www.vampirerave.com/forum/message.php?message=15527&group=1&catid=1

I would have to say the bloodline. It makes sense to me that you can live forever through family. The genetics, names, family name, inherited traits etc...

many myths surround this and with the movie it is very compelling to be the blood line of jesus. many speculated at one time it was the cup at the last supper and also the cup wich caught his blood. many could put forth compelling evedince of all of these. i believe it to be the cup of christ, the holy chalice which caught his blood.

I am on side of the bloodline. I mean why else have certain gospels been left out of the bible. And what is so wrong about Jesus being married and having a child?

With so many stories it's difficult to know what to think.

I like to think there was an actual cup, but if there was it's anyone's guess as to what happened to it.

So, instead I think about it more as being a personal quest, a journey undertaken by each of us, knowing as we go how important it is to sacrifice certain things in order to find our way home.

Good point Sinora, maybe the quest for the Grail is not about the prize at the end of the journey, but more about the journey in the first place. Learning new things about yourself, others and life along the way. So the grail may actually be knowledge and self-enlightment.

But I still it is one of the biggest cover ups of all time.

http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Talk/talk.politics.guns/2006-03/msg00686.htmlIn

A half hour special on discovery channel
researched by Jessica Cobb and written by James Manfill

Tony Robinson host and narrator Explains that Holy Blood holy grail is
a Total Fraud.

much like king aurther tale, the quest for the grail and ending up knowing about himself, a journey to know your innerself.

Bloodline...makes more sense. There is also a play of words going on when discussing the 'Holy Grail':
Sanct Grael (holy cup) or sangre roi (royal blood)? Apologies for the obvious misspelling of Latin.

Some say it is the womb of Mary....The Mother of Jesus.

Everything that everyone has said makes sense. But will anyone really know?

I agree Dabbler, the holy grail is a term bounded around in many forms from science to regilion, from work to the quest for knowledge. I know there are many stories and agruments surrounding this. And we all know many artifacts have survived from before the time of Christ. So my question is if the Holy Grail is an artifact where is it? I mean they found the spear that was meant to have pierced the side of Christ and many of this from this time. If the church or the 'powers that be' have why don't they make it known to the rest of the world.

I believe that the Bloodline of Christ is the most possible explaination simply because it can more or less be proved with gospels left out of the bible and other texts from that date.

I also that questiong for the Grail is to seek better understanding of one's self and he/her path in life.

I wonder the quest, because Belief is faith without evidence, yet people .. believers still seek evidence. Even to the point of accepting frauds.

To true Dabbler, how many times as this been seen in the pasted only to be proved wrong at a later date. For example people used to believe the earth was flat and if you sailed out of sight of land your ship fall over the edge. Then is was found to be round and people who said this were persicuted (sorry if spelt wrong) for going against the set truth.

The "Sangreal" (Holy Grail) is indeed the "Sang Real" (Blood Royal) of the House of David as well as the House of Benjamin (through Mariam, called the Magdalene), through which latter house also flows the bloodline of the Rephaim, the descendants of the "Fallen Angels" and the true "vampires" of history, many of whose males possessed the singularly unique sexual "equality" with females as spoken of in the Gnostic Gospels of Phillip and Thomas, and for which superhuman sexuality they have been hunted and slaughtered ever since.

Well said Dabbler, there are so many theories surrounding this and no hard evidance either way, that is impossible to know the truth.

I started this thread to gauge what others feeling were on this. But is evolved into so much more.

Dabbler -

Respectfully, you are mistaken. It was not the Holy Grail nor the extensively and generally well researched book "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" that was debunked as a hoax. What was exposed as a hoax was the so-called "Priory of Sion" and its supposed connection to the complex and multi-layered historical theory of the "Holy Grail" bloodline as propounded in this book and that predates the "Priory of Sion" hoax by almost two thousand years.

Regardless your opinion of "Holy Blood, Holy Grail", yet the fact remains that, as well argued by this book, if Jesus were married, which a growing body of historical and cultural evidences suggests he might have been, this would indeed provide a far greater explanation for the legends of the "Holy Grail" than that of a fictional cup never mentioned at all in the synoptic Gospels.

For a far-better examination and explanation of the "Priory of Sion" Hoax and its connection with "Holy Blood, Holy Grail", might I suggest the following link, instead:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priory_of_Sion

Such is the distortion of things. Thanks for the link, pious fraud abounds so much. Every aspect of religion opens stark avenues for fraud. Jesus' burial box being the most recent.

I would say it would have something to do with his blood line.... But I to truly believe its a hoax as well....

I agree it is a reference to Jesus's mortal bloodline but I think it had something to do with Mary magdaline too, but just in a symbolic sense, nothing literal...

I'm going to have to agree with the bloodline theory. Family is so important to most people. If you ask someone what is the one thing they would retrieve from their burning house, I would venture to guess it would be some sort of family heirloom, ie grandmas afgan, the family silver...ect.

The bloodline theory does hold up. And imagine if could be proved beyond doubt that Jesus married and had a child.

Well Thats is what I have always that it was to be, the bloodline of jesus., all though the benny hil show just pops into my mind but thats a completly different theory

LOL LDR.

I suppose the next question should be if it is proven to be the bloodline of Jesus and Mary Magdaline would the church crumble or would it survive or would it became stronger?

Yes they would, no dfferent the us Pagans, we have taken a beaten over the years, tru vast amounts of mass murderings and yet we still survive . Hmm makes ya wonder huh,brother ?

To be honest, I have no idea what to think about the Holy Grail. If it were something Jesus made as a carpenter, then it would be wood, and thus, would have eroded by now. If it were the cup from the last supper, it most likely would have done the same as the wood. To me, the bloodline theory seems to be the most logical one. Jesus was a man, and like a man he had his needs, who's to say he didn't fornicate in his thirty some odd years of assumed life?

Nighwish1977 -

Actually, the Catholic Church nor Christianity as a whole would be the least affected by the bloodline theory, even were someone to come forward with legitimate "proof" that he/she descended from the historical Jesus.

First, the Church has never specifically claimed that it would have been impossible for Jesus to have been married. Secondly, as nothing in Christianity requires bloodline connections to Jesus for transfer of power and authority (such as is largely the case in monarchies), such a verified claim would not affect the power of the Roman Church nor that of Protestantism. And thirdly, were Jesus to have had a child or children two millennia ago, the vast numbers of his descendants (such as those of King David living today) would preclude any one of them from being able to claim greater legitimacy to any authority or power over Christianity than would any of the other presumably hundreds of thousands that could do likewise and with equal legitimacy, based upon any genealogical evidence provided by such a hypothetical descendant.

Thus, due to these facts, I do not view this "Holy Grail" theory to be at all any sort of "pious fraud" in that even if someone were to rise up with evidence and claim descendancy, so also might hundreds of thousands of other people. Additionally, as Jesus did not set up any transfer of power and/or authority based on bloodline descendancy from him, such a claim would not grant to any such person inherent power or authority in the eyes of Christians.

I have always asscoiated it with the mortal bloodline. Interesting thread though because I did not know that there were other associations with the grail.

UpirLikhyj

Very inciteful indeed. I do think would be shaken by this news as it claimed that Jesus lead a celabte live and didn't indulge in sins of the flesh.

So if Jesus does have a mortal bloodline, then what else has the church lied about. But the think people forget is that is someone is a descendant of Jesus then that person is also a descentant of God, this will that person/s the most powerful religious person on the planet and hence the church would lose a lot of power.

I'm a traditionalist - according to legend it is the cup from the last supper...

... as to whether it still exists or not or was preserved...

I have no idea...

I know it isn't in my cupboard! :D

well legend has it , it is a cup made of gold and jewels it is suppose to the cup Jesus used in the last supper I dont know if that is true

I would say bloodline makes more sense to me than a cup to me, because there is plenty of evidence to suggest that Jesus lived as a man and did alot of things that we do or have done.

Good Point Storm, that book has opened alot of debate on the subject. So did the book Holy Blood, Holy Grail. Which is where Dan Brown got alot of his ideas from.

But the Book Holy Blood Holy Grail has never claimed to be factual, it was offering a different point of view.

Makes me wonder Dabbler has hidden in his house lol.

Some of the earliest recourses on the Holy Grail describe it as a platter. This platter was supposedly catching blood dripping from the spear that squired Jesus are the weapon was paraded through the streets.

One of my old university lecturers was, and in fact still is obsessed with finding the Grail, and is forever starting up excavations around the South west of England trying to find it...

...He’s a little bit eccentric.

the holy grail is mary magdeline she is the bearer of the blood line of jesus, her secret is upheld by the knights templer

Images - nicely put. I think part of the problem is a lot of people are starting with conclusion then looking backward rather than starting with data and then moving to conclusion. Popular culture also seems to be having a strong input on this one.

I honestly don't know if the item actually exists or it is a legend at this point. Maybe the question that we should be asking is - why is it important???

to some they are confronted with the whole, i have faith.. (Belief without evidence), yet then someone says there could be physical/tangible evidence, how reassuring such a concept would be, then their are those that just want to rub the nonbelievers face in it. Take the jesus burial box as a case study. Even the Big Foot in a freeze case works .

OK i am a grail fanatic, i like to prove all the lies wrong!

The holy grail is the obvious, it is Mary Magdalines womb. She was carring the son of Jesus, and the Faith back then didnt like it so they caste MM as a whore and a prostitute. In the last suuper painting by Da Vinci, To the left of Jesus there is MM If you move her to the right of him she is leaning over to him rather than PP, i think it is on the left of MM.

Good point Trepidation, the thnig is how people subscribe to the bloodline theory because of the DaVinci Code or beacuse of other reasons?

Mainly people think this because of the Da Vinci code yes, but there was a far deeper meaning to the book and the film! The reasons why i think this, is that it is far more plausible for this to be true than the chalice version or the plate version. The only reason it was dismissed in the Bible was becasue Jesus was never married. So in the eyes of religion this was wrong, so the caste MM out as a whore.

True Trepidation. The modern bible as we know was deicided on by a council of religious leaders from different faiths. Anything that wasn't liked or cast doubt on the divinity of Christ was left out.

very interesting thread. im not sure what i think about it. could be bloodline, could be cup. im rather thinking that its in the possession of a group of demented french knights in england somewhere that will taunt you (a second time!) if you try to see the grail.
thats just my theory. :c)
no disrespect ment to anyone, and no hamsters were harmed in the making of my lifes story.

Good theory, only thing the Templars no else exsist (offically) but there are rumors thet merged with the masons. So may it is mason who have the grail.

I think it is the cup Jesus used at the Last Supper.

To be completely honest I'd have to think it's just a cup with the word 'Holy' written on it.


If not that, it's more than likely a story made up by some random person.

The thing is the Knights do exist still, to this day, they want you to think that they all died, but they have just gone underground. They were good at hiding themselves back in the time so they most likly just got better at it!

In the fifteenth century, a chalice was held in the Tower of London for which King Edward IV received a bounty from several other foreign rulers. It has been documnted by visitors but was never recorded in the Tower records. I have my suspicions...

Here are a couple of pix to get you pondering.If interested further let me know and Ill explain..its all in the spin..;)

Yes,It never runs over, and it has no inside or outside, so it solves the problem of separateness.
It is a cup within a cup. It is fractal, so you can zoom in forever and always see the same thing.
In this shape, the magnetism in the blood can embedd everything. This is the way genetic magnetism can bend stars. Fractality gives you a way to grab all the little donuts by their throat at the same time. Here .....waves agree.

And gold is merely an external waveguide to such perfected embedding.
Harmonics.
So all in all I think maybe the gold cup is a representation of the electromagnetic configuration itself..Which is located in the Orion Nebula.

Yeh,Im not so bright,but I still cant help but thinking about this stuff everytime the Grail subject comes up.

I'll tell you this much,it goes much farther back than the Templars..Thats only a part of the story.you might start with the Sumenrians and Enki.But if you keep looking along this line,Im pretty sure you will begin to see what Im getting at.

ive read a few books and it always lead me to the knights templer and mary magdeline

I never read the book,but I guess I should.But if we are going to talk bloodline,I think it would have more to do with this grail vortex activating a superconductive DNA and genetics...Take me forever to go into it,but Im thinking its more along that line perhaps.

I thought of it as a bloodline way before The daVinci Code...I've read some of the books that Dan Brown got some of his material from, I think.

I believe that it could be the bloodline and I never had this thought until I read the DaVinci Code. But to me it makes perfect sense that this is what the Holy Grail could be. What would it mean to the church if direct decendants of Christ existed? Does that destroy people's beliefs or show that that church has been telling lies? I don't know if there is any basis for what Dan Brown wrote but it does make for some very interesting and thought provoking discussions.

I believe that it is the cup of the last supper because he used it in the holy sacrament of his body and blood. i think that is the reason and yes it may also be a cup he created with his own hands because if you think about it not many places you can just go and buy cups and plates back in the day. they were supposedly in hiding and they would have made things for the dinner and they would have kill or caught the food themselves.

Hmm, Nighwish, more food for the thought. Thanks for making this one interesting. I would also be very interested in the reading material that you are speaking of as well.
Deadly Desires-- you will love Angels and Demons book when you get to read it.

As for me like I stated earlier in the thread I do believe that it is the blood line of Christ. However, one of the things that I never understood with the book or the movie was why people were so apt to destory the notion that there is a blood line to begin with. I can understand the idea of proving that there was a blood line but if this is the case then why destory what is actual facts.

Cheetahcry...the way I view it is if people found out that Jesus was an ordinary man just like anyone else don't you think that would cause the downfall of the church itself? Look at how much money people put towards churches because they believe in what the bible says..which says that Jesus is the son of god. That even though he was in human form that he was the father, the son and the holy ghost. People would lose their faith and the churches would lose their money and power.

Point taken deadlyxDesire and you are right it would cause a fall in the churches because of that. I mean to find out that Christ was actually like the rest of us a mortal man should I say would seriously rock the foundation of the churches.

I always believed that the Grail is in fact a woman. Or "The" woman.

The Grail from which life is formed and grows. It is a place of miracles. Two sides come together to create something and I think it should be holy.

It seems like with all the mythology surrounding these particular beliefs (meaning no insult to those who have faith in it) I find it interesting that the female quality of things is often left out.

To me, the Grail is another story that includes the female. Or maybe it's my own wish that this particular mythology would finally include females in a positive light.

i will have to say in my most humble opinion is the bloodline of christ ..in which mary was carry his unborn child just make sence cup menaing womb upside down and the child being blood hence why they call it holy grail and in bible they say its a goblet cause they dont want society to really know mary was no virgin and was carrying jesus child

I've always understood it to be the cup Christ used for the last supper. As for "The Da Vinci Code" it's a work of fiction like "The Last Temptation of Christ", "Underworld" and "Vampire the Masquerade". It seems more and more just because something is in print or in a movie it must be true. It doesn't matter even if they find the book in the fiction section. All of those works of fiction I mentioned have the same thing in common, numerous people taking ideas from them and claiming they are fact when they are not or at least there is no proof that they are. Before "the last temptation of Christ" no one thought of Jesus and Mary Magdalen(sp) as a couple."The Da Vinci Code just took it farther and people followed. The idea of Cain as the 1st vampire and vampire clans both came from "vampire the Masquerade". Hybrids the use of the term lycan came from "underworld" Both "Underworld" and "Vampire the Masquerade" have vampires and werewolves fighting though the idea of an all out war comes mainly from "Underworld". All of those works have disclaimers proclaiming them as fiction yet people still somehow see things in them as fact.

For those who have read the book or have watched the movie will know that it does reference those things regarding females being of power because of the fact that they give life..and also above ^^^ you mentioned the cup and the womb in which was also talked about in the book and movie as well.

a combination of several sources
the cauldron of celtic mythology
the ark of the covenant
the philosephers stone
the chalice used for the concecration of the host

Thanks Cheetahcry.

Personally I don't the church would collapse, but it would lose some of it's power and hold over people.

People would also start asking what other things have we been misled over?

I also think that there would be major conflict in the world over was a desentant of Jesus. I would also have more respect for the church if they admitted it.

many untill the time of the movie believed it was the cup of christ, the vessel to give youth to who ever drank from the cup. much like the fountain of youth, many insights of one persons idea came into play after the movie, which made us go hmmmmmmmmm,

I have never believe in the cup theory, it was too easy to (pardon the pun) 'manufacture' and sell to the masses. I was reading about different ideas long before the movie came out.

I too have studied the grail...before the movie came out.

It has always been my belief that the grail was meant to be the bloodline of Christ.

The cup indeed shows how religion uses ritual to bestow super natural significants to simple object. A healthy practice in a way, but much abused by religious sects, ones that lean closer to sensationalism for example, just bordering on fanatical.

I'm not even sure I think the holy grail is an object, everyone refers to it as such but, stay with me now, what if the holy grail were a place, like the holy land, and I don't mean anywhere in the middle east, god has humor but he would not have the holy land/grail located in a place that is 85% desert. But maybe the holy grail is actually the garden of eden. That would make more sense than anything I've heard.

to each of us the grail may be something unigue a path for enlighment an actual cup or place, yet a device to search and learn is more plasuable idea, of self enlighment.

Like several of you, I have read the different things about the holy grail and other items way before the movie ever came out. The movie however is one of the things that has made me want to look more closely however at the different things or objects within religions itself.

please note though that I am not in any form downing a religion or the religion that someone has. Its a quest for knowledge with me.

In one of the Holy Grail stories Joseph of Arimathea took the Holy Grail, the cup used by Jesus, to England and hid it near Glastonbury Tor in a well. Mary Magdalene is said to have accompanied him.

I have heard of this well.

There is also a spring nearby that has red coloured water.

the holy grail is a cup jesus used

davinci code....never read the books, never saw the movie....have NO intention to do either
but the idea of the "holy vessel" being one of flesh and blood is a compelling concept

I have also heard the many stories surrounding the Holy Grail. I think it has more to do with the blood of Jesus. More then likely I feel it has to do with the cup that caught the blood.

I was always told that it was the cup jesus used at the last supper that he gave to all of his deciples and said drink this it is my blood the blood of the lamb. but I always thought tha cathlic churches had a mock holy grail that they used and wiped and let the next person in line drink from i"m not sure what it is that is just what I was told.

Ok someone explain the things above that are making me dizzy lol I keep looking at them... reminds me of the trinity knot no end no beginning

I believe the Holy Grail is non-existant. I believe it is, as with many things, simple mythology that's been given a bit too much fame over the years.

Like many religious artifacts that have not been proven to exist, the grail a lure that has for many countless years been sought for. for Hilter twas probably the last to send out forces to retrieve the artifacts for their power. but yet the quest is more for innerself belief than the actual prize.

The legend of the Grail is in my point of view, a metaphor for finding oneself as already mentioned. "It is the search for the devine in all of us" said Marcus Brodie from Indiana Jones and The Last Crusade.

When one begins to understand this concept, then they may begin to understand the true teachings of their Lord. The Nazarene was not wishing for the world to worship him, but rather learn from him.

Many throughout the world who have an open mind for theological discussions and not to take them out of context, may grasp the certain concept that many flock to believe there truly is an afterlife with a "Lord" that forgives all sins and transgressions. That through their "Lord". they may find this everlasting life.

But, by understanding the grail as a metaphor, a new quality of though might come into play and a better understanding for the teachings of a mighty teacher may surrender their minds from the banter of the world and turn them into the concept of individuality instead of the sheeple and the masses.

This is merely an opinion, take from it what you will...

Most ppl believe it is the cup Jesus made. However I think it has more to do with his blood.

I think it has to do with his blood. If he was all that he was suppose to be his blood would be worth bottling as they say.

jesus in a bottle, now that would be a miricle.


the search fro the innerself and peace, therios of what it is or what hollywood dictates is the search for the realism and a quest, but all that is fullfilled is enlightment.

A few things you need to understand about the Holy Grail. First, notwithstanding the impression you may get from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, it's not necessarily the cup used by Jesus at the Last Supper. Though commonly depicted as a chalice or as the dish holding the Paschal Lamb, in some accounts it's a cauldron, a philosopher's stone, or an emerald struck from Lucifer's crown as he plunged into hell.

Second, the Grail-as-mystical-object doesn't appear in ancient Christian texts--unlike, say, the Ark of the Covenant. The earliest mention we know of is in a retelling of the King Arthur legend called Le Conte du Graal, written in the last quarter of the 12th century by the French poet Chretien de Troyes. Chretien, who's credited with inventing the courtly romance, wrote several Arthurian tales, apparently based on Celtic sources. The Grail in Chretien's story is a fancy platter with an otherworldly (but not explicitly religious) aura. The knight Perceval sees it while feasting at the castle of the Fisher King, where it's brought in as part of a procession of mysterious objects. Though curious, Perceval holds his tongue--he's already been scolded for asking too many questions. Big mistake. Because he fails to inquire about the Grail, the Fisher King and his castle are doomed to remain in a netherworld, neither dead nor alive. To rectify matters, Perceval must embark on a quest, which drives the rest of the tale.

Chretien apparently died before he could finish the story--that was left to later writers, called "continuators," who worked over a span of about 50 years. Their versions vary considerably in detail, most obviously with respect to what the Grail was, but on the whole they made the religious angle much more overt. Other writers during the same period wrote "histories" of the Grail that purported to trace its origin to the time of Christ. Scholars have long debated where the different elements of the tale came from; present appearances to the contrary, much of the story probably is of non-Christian origin.

At any rate, it seems safe to say that early Grail writers understood they were trafficking in fiction. They felt no compunction about combining legends from far-flung cultures or introducing new twists. For example, the bit about Joseph of Arimathea using the Grail to collect the blood of Jesus first turns up in a Grail history by Robert de Boron that appeared around 1200. In the New Testament, Joseph is a minor figure, a wealthy disciple who obtains Jesus's body after the Crucifixion and furnishes the tomb. De Boron's history has him collecting the blood of Jesus in the Grail, then being imprisoned by the Jews for 40 years, during which time the Grail miraculously sustains him; afterward he travels to Britain and establishes its first Christian community. De Boron probably got some of these details from the apocryphal Gospel of Nicodemus, but that book doesn't even mention the Grail; seems pretty clear to me that de Boron was making a lot of things up.

So no, people aren't still searching for the Grail, and they never were. Though several actual cups possibly connected with the death of Christ have turned up over the millennia, the Grail of the stories came into being a mere eight centuries ago--it isn't part of early Christian tradition, much less a real artifact. You may have thought it sacrilegious when Spielberg used the Grail to jump-start a ripping yarn, but from a certain point of view, that's what it's always been for.

to read more on the research I found you can follow this link below..

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2444/what-is-the-holy-grail

Before I saw the daVinci code, I used to think the Holy Grail was literally a goblet-type deal. But now that I have seen it, and read it, and researched it more, I believe it is the bloodline of Christ. There was just so much more in it that made me think, and they all led to having to do with Pagan roots and the bloodline of Christ. Things like that.

The Camelot Project at the University of Rochester:
THE HOLY GRAIL:

The Holy Grail is generally considered to be the cup from which Christ drank at the Last Supper and the one used by Joseph of Arimathea to catch his blood as he hung on the cross. This significance, however, was introduced into the Arthurian legends by Robert de Boron in his verse romance Joseph d'Arimathie (sometimes also called Le Roman de l'Estoire dou Graal), which was probably written in the last decade of the twelfth century or the first couple of years of the thirteenth. In earlier sources and in some later ones, the grail is something very different. The term "grail" comes from the Latin gradale, which meant a dish brought to the table during various stages (Latin "gradus") or courses of a meal. In Chrétien and other early writers, such a plate is intended by the term "grail." Chrétien, for example, speaks of "un graal," a grail or platter and thus not a unique item. Wolfram von Eschenbach's Parzival presents the grail as a stone which provides sustenance and prevents anyone who beholds it from dying within the week. In medieval romance, the grail was said to have been brought to Glastonbury in Britain by Joseph of Arimathea and his followers. In the time of Arthur, the quest for the Grail was the highest spiritual pursuit. For Chrétien, author of Perceval and his continuators (four works take up the task of completing the work that Chrétien left unfinished, two of which are anonymous, one is by Mannesier, and a fourth is by Gerbert de Montreuil), Perceval is the knight who must achieve the quest for the Grail. For other French authors, as for Malory, Galahad is the chief Grail knight, though others (Perceval and Bors in the Morte d'Arthur) do achieve the quest. Tennyson is perhaps the author who has the greatest influence on the conception of the Grail quest for the modern English-speaking world through his Idylls and his short poem "Sir Galahad". However, James Russell Lowell's "The Vision of Sir Launfal", one of the most popular of nineteenth-century American poems gave to generations a democratized notion of the Grail quest as something achievable by anyone who is truly charitable. The notion that the Grail story originated in fertility myths was popularized by Jessie Weston in her book From Ritual to Romance, which was used by T. S. Eliot in the writing of The Waste Land. Eliot's poem, in turn, influenced many of the important novelists of his and succeeding generations, including Hemingway and Fitzgerald.

So, chalice (cup) or plate, it's continued actual existance is in question, today as it was introduced during the time of King Arthur and may strictly be any "object" to quest for that gives us a purpose.

Leo

I have read recently a book with an uncommon point of view of Franjo Terhart about this myth.
He says that the grail and Baphomet are the same thing: a holy cup made from the skull of a saint (maybe John the Baptist) and hidden somewhere in the border mountains between France and Spain.
Personally I find this hypothesis very fantastic, but, after all, it`s about a myth, isn`t it?

One more thing!
The bloodline so called"theory" is the work of a very superficial writer (no wonder here).
Jesus was a rabbi and there is no way he could keep the sexual relationship with a woman unnoticed.
He was never accused of this IMPORTANT SIN in the sinod (the High Council) even if he allowed Mary Magdalene to oil his feet.

History should be the source for fantasy and not the other way!

MMmm..I though that the Holy Grail was the sheet that they used to cover the lord Jesus, when they brough him down from the cross. The one that they cover his body before entering him on the tomb. Oh well, may be I was "wrong".

That`s the so called Tetradyplon.
It`s not the same thing but usually the terms are used in extension and there are a lot of guys who use it this way to trick the people and buy their books.

Markus you are talking about the Shroud of Tourin I believe...

I believe that the facts(if it is possible to refer to christian mythology as such) point toward the holy grail as being the royal bloodline of Jesus...
Furthermore I dont believe that such would hail any kind of social deconstrucion of the church as such knowledge would not be enough to question the divinity of Jesus.. The true believers in christianity would simply accept the new facts and keep their faith right where they have it.....The others would simply dissmiss said claims as farfetched theory and keep doing what they do....
Even if the divinity of Jesus came into question I dont think there are too many christians that would be upset as history(mythology)has pointed towards Jesus being one of the greatest men that ever lived.....

I might believe the grail was the bloodline of Christ if there were proof he existed. But, alas, I think it simply a cup.

The bloodline theories did not come out tell the movie hit the screen. And hollywood an their famous ways has now put a twist to the holy grail theory.

Aurther lore was in search of the cup, even Hitler sent out spies to find these artifacts.

The search for innerself is all it is, to believe in thy self...

cadrewolf -

Actually, the theory of the Holy Grail being a metaphor for the surviving bloodline of the historical Jesus and Mary Magdalene was first presented, and in quite exhaustively well-researched fashion, in the wonderful book "Holy Blood, Holy Grail", which was published in 1982, over 20 years prior to Dan Brown's plagiarizing of this wonderful book's central premise in his novel and its subsequent movie "The Da Vinci Code."

While the secondary theme therein of the "Dossiers Secret" (which was the 20th Century only aspect of this book that spans 2000 years of history) were later shown to have been a hoax planted by a Monsieur Plantard (no pun!) so as to have his bloodline seem to be the modern descendants of Jesus, yet the entire rest of the book and its fascinating theory are well documented and would seem to be quite possible, if not probable.


- Upir'

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