Hi Everyone,
It seems i'm on the subject of curses today, this time i'm picking on King Tukankhaman & the curse that surround him!
I'm sure everybody has heard the story but here's some of the details again, just to re-fresh....
King Tut's tomb was disovered by Howard Carter on 26 Nov 1922 when he peered through a small hole above the door to the tob and saw the glint of gold everywhere. He and his colleague Lord Carnavon had made the greatest discovery in archeology's history. But a few days later they found a clay tablet with heiroglypics on it with translated to 'death will follow on swift wings anyone who diturbs the peace of the Pharaoh'. The following April Lord Carnavon had died of some unknown disease (at the same same all the light's in Cairo went off and the Lord's dog in England howled and dropped dead!), a mere six years later 22 other people involved in the tomb opening had died prematurely also. Other archeologist's dismissed talk about 'the curse of the pharaoh's as journalistic sensationalism. yet it is difficult to imagine that this long series of deaths was mearly a frightening coincidence.
What do u think, cursed, some airbourne disease unleashed when the tomb was opened or a coincidence??
I dont beleive in curse cast by dead or object, the only curse I beleive are the ones made by living or the help of a spiirit by a living.
I think most of the things that happen that were put onthe blam of th ecurse were simply coincidence. sorry, I beleive in logic and logic tells me, dead cant curse you, object cant curse you.
Due to all of the bacteria and mold that had settled for many many years I think this is what the true curse was
simply the fact that the egyptians new in time this would become a poison to those who breathed it
Recent evidence suggests Howard Carter entered King Tut's tomb many times before his official opening... he was looting the treasure for as long as he could before attention was drawn eventually to his diggings... this would cast doubt on the one opening as triggering a curse...
the curse was only a combination of germs and believing that their was one....
The curse I believe is a falacy because most of the place was booby trapped and what bad things befell the expedition is only because of these booby traps that were set off.
can you imagine the mold and germs that could be in that tomb...things we haven't seen in a 1000 years....
"mentioned above by me"
most likely the curse was just due to all the germs and bacteria which had gone stagnant till air hit it. thus they breathed it in with the crappy masks they had back then which really didnt do anything for the health factor
There is a lot of speculation about the so-called "curse".
A lot of it had to do with old bacteria that people at the time Howard Carter opened the tomb we're not exposed to.
I do not think that there is a curse. I think that it was just germs and bacteria that killed the people.
There was no real curse, only diseases they had not yet been intoduced to, some of which take time to work.
I agree.. germs.. poison... in the dusty tomb. dangerous working condition. would most likely have provoked people to come up with such a fable of the Curse of King Tut's tomb. After all Tut himself didn't have much luck dying at such an early age ( I believe he was about 17)
thats why i dont mess around peoples tombs!!! lol.
I was always interested in that type of archeology but the fear of unleashing something like a curse was always on my mind. i believe in it. but now that i read here that there is a possibility of it being germs and what not, that makes a lot of sense!!!
Either way you look at it... when tombs are found, strange things always happen. i guess it depends on ur perception. me, i believe.
I think it's a curse and the mold and everything else down there probably helped a lot
I doubt there is a curse here..but you never know. It could happen.
I love Egyptian culture! It's so amazing....
But I doubt that it was a curse.
I would agree with anyone who thinks about the airborne disease theory.
It's like when European explorers ventured to America, they brought with them diseases not known to the American Natives living there.
It is logical to assume that the American and British archaeologists who found Tut's tomb, experiences something similar, only with a different disease or perhaps even merely some sort of dust-mold that they breathed in after having entered the tomb. Once in the lungs of the person, the mold/virus has a chance to start thriving in the ideal conditions. Some could have taken months or years to finally overrun the host.
This is my theory on this, and of course it is mere speculation on my part as I don't know ALL the facts at hand. :)
went to phila to see the exhibit believe curses are real
discovery channel had a documentary on tuts tome
and the real cause of death to the young prince
scientist measured the mold/bacteria content
and found them off the charts
Yeah, i saw the same documentry, but i was a bit shaken when i heard the part about the lights going off in Cairo and the lords dog dropping dead at the same time. Spooky!!
First of all, all of you are correct that the curse was a disease of some sorts any one can figure that out its just common sense and yes many of you are correct that it was the beleif in the curse but heres a question for you many of you and others here on the VR believe in Vampires, Werewolves, fairies, Druid Magic and etc, so is it so hard to beleive that back in the day there was a curse placed upon the tomb, belief can do anything and besides that just like emotions are never dying so is beleif, no matter what happens, we can die, or go into comas, or even fall out of certain emotions but they always exist. So can curses exist? I think so, was it a curse that killed so many? who knows
it could be both...with the condition that the tomb was in and how long it had been concealed...it could have been an airborne disease
HOWEVER...curses can become reality only to those who believe in them
i think there is some poison in the air within the tomb, that when the door is opened, the onlooker will be affected and die later on. this is strengthened by the qoute written in hyroglyphs.
but egyptians is also known for their incantations and other mysterious deeds. so better not mess with this pharaos.. i think they are meant to rest in their respective pyramids and not anywhere else
In my opinion i think it was just coincidence....But who knows?
Maybe it was a curse....
I'm not sure but to breath in very old air might just do it.
Many theorize that a unknown disease or fungi as stated lay in wait in the tomb. Many bacterial when hit the air cause a reaction and to humans would be death. no curse but an unknown bacteria, i do believe.
oh definately and old style booby traps could have been set
If in fact there was a curse why hasn't it effected the thousands that have seen the Tut exhibits around the world???
Jens is most likely right a mold/virus breathed in at the time they found his tomb all the tombs had simular curses don't disturb etc..... The people that found those tombs didnt die did they???
Mikhail
I highly doubt its unknown rather just the minds of us all playing to that
its most likely as I have stated previously
standard mold and dust which had sat stagnant for 1000's of years no air thus all it could do was multiply in the desert rather moist heated area's where bacteria and mold can grow abundance
on top of the fact that when they open sealed tombs they usually are either blasted open from a concentrated area meaning that area will get a large rush of air which in turn would practically circulate all that mold dust and bacteria where insufficient breath masks of that time would not allow true protection unlike once thought
plus most only used handkerchiefs
I do not think it was a curse maybe a virus bad air but not a curse..
i dont think it was a curse at cause cause of all the dust and mold that was held in inside of the tomb for all of that time is problay the real reason why all of the deaths happened in the first place.
I believe it was a coincidence. Many diseases back then were not know so they said they were of unknown causes
There are many things in this world that cant, or are very hard to explain, in this one incident for example.
No one will ever REALLY know if it was the 'curse' or just someone not really taking care of themselves
I watched a documentary on it ..
It said something like there was mold covering everything in the tomb.
That the one guy inhaled it , and that what caused his death.
But I like to believe in the curse, I love the mystery of it...
I think most of yall are overlooking the fact that they were expecting bacteria and stuff in the air and knew that the old air would get them sick. They took many precations before actually going in.
It wasn't bad air.
I believe their is a curse and I am sure that history supports this theory.
It was a curse of the mind. In those days curses were true, witches ate children, demons/devil was after all the time. also the air in the tombs was poor ,could make anyone sick.
I believe it was a curse, that many people dying in that short period of time, their is no way it was just natural causes, it had to be a curse, well atleast that is what i think...
The power of Pharoh and the ancient God's kows no time limit.
I am reposting an old post of mine in this thread,as my thoughts have not changed since the firt time this went around.
The tombs of ancient Egypt are famous for their “curses” that call for death and destruction to those who enter. Many of the explorers who suffered from the alleged “curses” experienced symptoms similar to those caused by exposure to Aspergillus sp., a mold that has been found throughout the Egyptian tombs. Egyptians often buried food, jewels, and other treasures along with their loved ones for use in the afterlife. This food may have provided the perfect nutrient source for Aspergillus sp.and other molds.
The most notorious case of the mummy’s curse occurred with the opening of King Casimir’s tomb in Poland on April 13, 1973. Within a few days after opening the tomb, four of the twelve researchers that had been present died. Shortly thereafter six more died. One of the two remaining survivors was a microbiologist; he suffered equilibrium problems for five years and performed microbiological examinations of the tomb to determine any correlation between his illness and anything found in the tomb. He found traces of three different species of mold on artifacts that had been removed from the tomb: Aspergillus flavus, Penicillium rubrum, and Penicillium rugulosum. These molds produce aflatoxins B1 and B2 and are speculated to have caused the deaths of the ten researchers.
It has also been speculated that these molds may have been responsible for the death of Lord Carnarvon, who died a few months after exploring King Tut’s tomb in 1922. When the mummy of King Tut was examined in 1976, over 370 separate mold colonies containing eighty-nine different species (including Aspergillus sp.) were discovered growing on the mummy. During an analysis of 40 mummies in 1999, a German microbiologist discovered that each of the mummies contained several potentially dangerous types of mold spores. Due to this evidence, scientists now take extra precautions, such as wearing personal protective equipment, when handling mummies and exploring new tombs.
i dont believe in curses but i do believe in coincidence (SP) wasnt there a attck of parvo that made the dogs fall over and die
It could well be a curse, we don't know what the ancients were capable of. But even if it was just a natural phenomena (which is my personal point of view) that wouldn't explain all the lights going out and the dog dying at the same time...
i truely belive in the curse because look at all of those ppl that dead when they open up his tomb.
yes,but remember mold has spores..which ,in the right conditions can cover a wide area.
well do not believe much in curses , I feel it might of just been an airborn virus /bug whatever you want to call it just an opinon.
I was told this tale by my teacher in History and she told us of the fact that these tombs had thousands of diseases locked into them and many more evolving into new ones. As soon as they touched the things inside they were giving themselves up to the oppurtunity of these germs and diseases!
but then again this may be the curse that the plaque meant lol!
I think it was all just coincidence. The tablet was only there in hopes of keeping thieves from stealing the treasures Tut was buried with.
And if it wasn't coincidence, its one of those things like a grim... you just keep thinking you see it until you die of a heart attack from paranoia or something.
I think the power of belief can be so strong that a rumour of a curse such as King Tut's can easily do all that occurred and more. I personally believe that germs and belief caused the deaths.
The ancient Egyptians were experts on traps, booby traps and other such things to protect the Pharaohs treasure. And of course they would have also used the idea of a curse because they believed in it themselves.
very true RagingDarkness, not to mention they were preety advanced for their time in medical term, they were preforming brain surgery 2500 years before modern doctors even considered it!! They were proberly more than capable of conconcting something that would lay in wait for tomb raiders even over thousands of years after all the egyptians were used to thinking in terms of enternity....
i agree with most. i think the deaths were due to unknown dieseas and such. dieases due mutate over time and with it being in a desert this may have caused then to become more resilant. also this was a time when medicine was really still in its infantcy in treating and diagnosing infections, they could of died from anything in those days
I too believe that is was a simple bacteria or infection of some sort. Perhaps it was even something that could have been diagnosed with todays technology and cured easily.
Ever happen to notice that guys working in crawlspaces or other places like that,all seem to sport the 5 Oclock shadow? This isnt a lack of hygine here folks.It is a well known precaution today ,that,if one is going to work under a house or underground, one does not shave or otherwise break or irritate the skin in any manner if it can be helped.Doing so,not only invites infection and disease,but promotes it.And there are quite a few really nasty little bugs that can easily kill.If you go crawling around down there,or in a tomb for that matter,it is going to stir up anything latent that is in the soil or dust...you think flesh eating bactiria is relatively new thing? Guess again..there are so many things and vectors that could have caused the die off of those not in the immediate surrounding of a tomb or whatnot,it isnt funny.Including the simple act of opening a tomb.
I believe that it was a curse, and i was reading the following website.
National Geographics
I was wondering maybe if the people did get sick by some type of illness caused by bacteria or toxin, that could have been part of the curse, and i understand that many people die from things like this but they all do not leave behind tablets saying they are going to curse people who disturb their resting place either...
The Curse of the Pharaohs refers to the belief that any person who disturbs the mummy of an Ancient Egyptian pharaoh is placed under a curse whereby they will shortly die. Many tombs of pharaohs have curses written on or around them, warning against entering.
The belief was brought to many people's attention due to the deaths of some members of the team of Howard Carter, who opened the tomb of Tutankhamun (KV62) in 1922, launching the modern era of Egyptology. The first of these "mysterious" deaths was that of Lord Carnarvon. He had been bitten by a mosquito, and later slashed the bite accidentally while shaving. It became infected and blood poisoning resulted. Skeptics pointed out that many, many others who visited the tomb or helped to discover it lived long and healthy lives. A study showed that of the 58 people who were present when the tomb and sarcophagus were opened, only eight died within a dozen years. All the others were still alive, including Howard Carter who died peacefully at the age of 64 in 1939. The doctor who did the autopsy on Tutankhamun lived until 75. [1]
Some have speculated that deadly fungus could have grown in the enclosed tombs and been released when they were open to the air. Arthur Conan Doyle, author of the Sherlock Holmes mysteries, favoured this idea, and speculated that the mold had been placed deliberately to punish grave robbers. A newspaper report printed following Carnarvon's death is also believed to have been responsible for the wording of the curse most frequently associated with Tutankhamun – "Death shall come on swift wings to him who disturbs the peace of the King" – a phrase which does not actually appear among the hieroglyphs in KV62.
While there is no evidence that such pathogens killed Lord Carnarvon, there is no doubt that dangerous materials can accumulate in old tombs. Recent studies of newly opened ancient Egyptian tombs that had not been exposed to modern contaminants found pathogenic bacteria of the Staphylococcus and Pseudomonas genera, and the moulds Aspergillus niger and Aspergillus flavus. Additionally, newly opened tombs often become roosts for bats, and bat guano may harbour histoplasmosis. However, at the concentrations typically found, these pathogens are generally only dangerous to persons with weakened immune systems. Air samples taken from inside an unopened sarcophagus through a drilled hole showed high levels of ammonia, formaldehyde and hydrogen sulfide; these gases are all toxic, but at dangerous concentrations are easily detected by their strong odours. [1]
Partly as a result, many modern archaeologists wear protective clothing when opening long-closed burial chambers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_the_Pharaohs
i just watched a documentary on the national geographic channel on this subject and brought up the idea of the curse. they went and did a more thorough examination of the tomb itself and found that it holds a very deadly mold on the walls in which would kill some one if it entered thier bodies within a few days time. and they said tht the mold itself had been there for eons as well. so i think it may be possible that when these guys opened this tomb up, and the air or vacuum i should say, set the mold airborne and they inhaled it... but then again this was off of a documentary done about 3 years ago :)
an awfull lot of egyptologists die of the same symptoms.tuts tomb is unusuall for actually having a curse written on its walls.also its uncertain that the body is his as it was opend three times in ancient history.
ive heard that the gold is radioactive as it was mined almost next door to a modern uranium mine.
Hehe the curse Is Radiation Poisoning. :D u never know during the building of the tomb many workers may have died and maybe they jus adopted the idea that it was cursed due to the radation witch is an invisible force they did not understand at the time
I don't believe in coincidence. It was a curse. I think maybe King Tut had some sort of magic worker put a curse on his tomb after he died. Death was very sacred and important to the Egyptians. The Pharaoh would kill those who built his tomb, because it would be full of traps and he did not want to risk them knowing how to get to his treasure.
Thats an interesting way to put it. i kinda like that Idea
i never thaught of the airborn desease idea. i think it was a cursenone the lessdidnt they die in different ways?
Wow, i didn't know this thead was still active, i do like to get a good discussion going hehehehe.
There was a large amount of very bad bacteria in the tomb which accounted for the deaths but that still does not account for the dog dying at excatly the same time at Canarvon at the lights in Cairo going out at the same time as well. A bit much for a coindendence......
I don't think it was a coincedence but I don't think it was a curse either. It was most likely a desiease that was in the tomb.
the curse was only a combination of germs and believing that their was one
I believe their is a curse and I think that history supports this theory.
I think it is more likely to be coincidence than anything else, like the supposed Polterghesit curse
As it's already been suggested earlier perhaps the disease was the curse and the dog dropping dead and the light hoing off was the 'paranormal' element to 'the curse'??
The curse could have been specially put for an airborne virus of sorts.
razeals got it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,i am a history major on egyptology,,,u go sire u go
If you believe there is a curse then it will get you for the fact your just waiting for it to. you do it to yourself there are no such things as curses
Coincidence IMO. Really bad luck, but none the less this has been kind of put to rest in numerous documentaries.
I would guess it would either be disease or a curse..I don't think thats a coincidence...
I do not mean to put a damper on this subject, but it has been scientifically proven that egyptian curses are no more than myth. There is a bacteria that lingers in the air of dank tombs due to the presence of the decaying matter within, no matter how sealed it is. Once you breath it in, you will die if you are not treated. They did not know of this back then, so it was thought to be a "curse."
wow i havent heard about that in awhile but i do think it is a curse because alot of people who have encounted the tomb have died or something has happen to them. very good thread hun i have watched some docermenty about it before very interesting.
my mind tends to bend the same way RazaelRiezen's and Kage's do
when something is shut up for years the hazards to your health become very real
i have never heard the part about the lights going out or the dog dropping dead at the same time though...
i'll have to research that part :)
the story of the boy king is always interesting to me, i was disappointed when experts changed their collective minds about how he died in the first place.
In recent years a scientific mummy's-curse theory was offered for Carnarvon's death. Was he killed by exposure to ancient, toxic pathogens from the sealed tomb? Did they prove too much for his immune system, which was weakened by a chronic illness he had experienced before he went to Egypt?
"When you think of Egyptian tombs, you have not only dead bodies but foodstuffs—meats, vegetables, and fruits" interred for the trip to the hereafter, said Jennifer Wegner, an Egyptologist at the University of Pennsylvania Museum in Philadelphia. "It certainly may have attracted insects, molds, [bacteria], and those kinds of things. The raw material would have been there thousands of years ago."
Recent laboratory studies have revealed that some ancient mummies do indeed carry mold, including at least two potentially dangerous species—Aspergillus niger and Aspergillus flavus. These molds can cause allergic reactions ranging from congestion to bleeding in the lungs.
The toxins can be particularly harmful for people with weakened immune systems.
Some tomb walls may also be covered with respiratory-assaulting bacteria like Pseudomonas and Staphylococcus.
Scientists have also detected ammonia gas, formaldehyde, and hydrogen sulfide inside sealed sarcophagi. In strong concentrations they could cause burning in the eyes and nose, pneumonia-like symptoms, and in very extreme cases, death.
Bats inhabit many excavated tombs, and their droppings carry a fungus that can cause the influenza-like respiratory disease histoplasmosis.
Under the right conditions such hazards could prove deadly.
"Safer in the Tomb Than Outside"
But experts who have examined the case of Lord Carnarvon believe that tomb toxins played no role in his not-so-untimely demise.
The elderly Carnarvon was chronically ill before he set foot in Tut's tomb. Plus, his death occurred months after his initial exposure to the tomb. If he had been exposed to biological beasties in the tomb, they would have manifested themselves sooner.
"I take the position that Howard Carter [the archaeologist who opened the tomb] took before me," said F. DeWolfe Miller, professor of epidemiology at the University of Hawaii at Manoa. "Given the sanitary conditions of the time in general, and those within Egypt in particular, Lord Carnarvon would likely have been safer in the tomb than outside."
"We don't know of even a single case of either an archaeologist or a tourist experiencing any negative consequences [from tomb molds or bacteria]," Miller said. The University of Pennsylvania's Wegner hasn't noticed much concern among her colleagues at tomb sites.
"On the archaeological projects that I've been involved with, we generally don't wear masks or [other protection against hazardous materials] in a tomb," she explained. "If we do, it's because of worry about breathing in dust rather than molds or fungus.
"If someone has a compromised immune system, they might be more [likely] to pick up something in a tomb, but that's also the case in a restaurant or anywhere else they might be."
While molds and bacteria are present in Egyptian tombs, it's no easy matter to identify which may be of truly ancient origin.
"We don't have good procedures to recover the contents of a sarcophagus and assure that gas or microorganisms aren't contaminated [by more modern elements]," Miller said.
"Anything that would have hung around for 3,000 years that you could recover and prove that it's not a contemporary organism (which is not easy to do) would be such a huge scientific find that I hope I'm there to participate in the discovery."
Dangerous Digs?
Yet many archaeological dig sites do hold potentially nasty biological surprises, according to Kenneth Feder, professor of archaeology at Central Connecticut State University in New Britain.
"There is science behind the fact that when you are disturbing deposits that haven't been mucked around in a while, it's at least conceivable that you can expose yourself to some evil stuff," Feder said.
Feder is co-editor of the book Dangerous Places: Health, Safety, and Archaeology.
Researchers on most archaeological digs are surrounded by dust—and exposed to whatever it may contain.
"An old joke about archaeology is that when you go home after a hard day in the field and blow your nose, you blow out dirt," Feder said. "Clearly you have been breathing it in, and if you have been exposed to molds, spores, or fungi that lay dormant in the earth, there is at least a possibility of being exposed to some nasty stuff." Many fungi are found in soil and often fostered by small ground animals and their feces-filled tunnels.
Yet despite the presence of molds, bacteria, and other nasties, most archaeological sites, including tombs, have proven safe for science and tourism alike.
In fact, the real mummy curses may be curses on tombs, rather than on modern visitors.
"There are countless examples of tombs being infected by people, rather than tombs infecting people," the University of Hawaii's Miller explained.
"The opening of these tombs by people who are eager to make discoveries without a mind on how to conserve and protect them can expose [the tombs] to enormous damages. Moisture [has spawned] mold literally growing on walls and destroying paint and other artifacts. As many tombs as they've opened, they've had to close because of damage from tourists."
Found at: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/05/0506_050506_mummycurse_2.html
I have taken the liberty to bold the most impacting statements, apparently the molds can harm you, but the fact is that they haven't harmed anyone in years of digs or tourism.
I believe mixly here i think there may have been in fact some kind of Curse and at the same time there would also be the Mold and bacteria causing harm to those who enterred the Tomb..
I'd like to thank everybody for supporting this thread, there's been a lots of idea's and info that i had never considered and never know about before, cheers:)
maybe this is where aids came from
i mean there is no cure for it right ?
i think it came from the dust and other particles that were in the air when the tomb was opened in the first place and that is where whatever disease came from that got everyone sick and died from that bad day in history.
seen all the movies and read all about it --Don't believe it .
Maybe the curse was the germs or toxins, the people of egypt knew more about magick than most countrys will ever know so maybe they created the germs by a curse...
It could very well be a curse...as well as it has been mentioned so many times above that bacteria is the case.
But if it was bacteria...wouldn't it spread outside the tomb?
It is possible that maybe there was an actual curse. The thing is I am more inclined to say it was all the mold, bacteria, and possible disease that had been trapped in there for so long. Open the tomb and all that would be released. I think that is what killed all of the people who opened the tomb.
well i myself believe in the curse there have been studies that have unknowingly proven about a disease that is uncureable if you breathe the air in the tomb however i would find it hard to believe that the disease is still unknown to man as sophisticated as we are today