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Throughout time there have always been rumors, stories or evidence of serial killers and forms of cults that pop up here and there. Some stories of cults and serial killers can be linked closely as far as violence, actions, details, etc.

A cult is described a cohesive social group devoted to beliefs or practices that the surrounding culture considers outside the mainstream, with a notably positive or negative popular perception.

In cults there is always a leader. Some characteristics of the leaders include:

1. Glibness/Superficial charm
2. Manipulative and Conning
3. Grandiose Sense of Self
4. Pathological Lying
5. Lack of Remorse, Shame, or Guilt
6. Shallow Emotions
7. Incapacity for Love
8. Need for Stimulation
9. Callousness/lack of empathy
10. Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
11. Early Behavior Problems/juvenile delinquency
12. Irresponsibility/Unreliability
13. Promiscuous Sexual behavior/infidelity
14. Lack of realistic life plan/parasitic lifestyle
15. Criminal or entrepreneurial versatility


A serial killer is defined as a person who murders three or more people with a "cooling off" period between each murder and whose motivation for killing is largely based on psychological gratification.

Here are some of the characteristics of a serial killer.

1. Over 90 percent of serial killers are male.

2. They tend to be intelligent, with IQ's in the "bright normal" range.

3. They do poorly in school, have trouble holding down jobs, and often work as unskilled laborers.

4. They tend to come from markedly unstable families.

5. As children, they are abandoned by their fathers and raised by domineering mothers.

6. Their families often have criminal, psychiatric and alcoholic histories.

7. They hate their fathers and mothers.

8. They are commonly abused as children — psychologically, physically and sexually. Often the abuse is by a family member.

9. Many serial killers spend time in institutions as children and have records of early psychiatric problems.

10. They have high rates of suicide attempts.

11. From an early age, many are intensely interested in voyeurism, fetishism, and sado-masochistic pornography.

12. More than 60 percent of serial killers wet their beds beyond the age of 12.

13. Many serial killers are fascinated with fire starting.

14. They are involved with sadistic activity or tormenting small creatures.

Even though each list varies, some traits can be broken down and ‘linked’ together. Such as the trait of a cult leaders “Irresponsibility/Unreliability” and the serial killers “They do poorly in school, have trouble holding down jobs, and often work as unskilled laborers.” In both there is a factor of being irresponsible and not stepping up to plate, so to speak.

With some of the cult situations we have seen they have some sort of violence; whether it is on each other or violence on themselves. Cult leaders can twist and turn the mind of their followers around so much these people think the leaders words are of a god. Jim Jones and David Koresh had twisted the mind of people so much; they agreed to perform a mass suicide.

So with saying that..

How do you view cults?

Do you view Cult leaders just a different form of ‘serial killer’?

Do you think a Cult leader has the same tendencies of a serial killer, but not enough ‘guts’ to actually be one?

Which one do you find more ‘dangerous’?

Please explain your answers. Yes, no or any form of I agree will be deleted.

Thank you.

http://www.fwselijah.com/psychopa.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_killer
Source: Internal Association of Forensic Science, an article written by FBI Special Agent Robert K. Ressler
"The Serial Killer," Harold Schechter

I do not know if I would actually think that Serial Killers and Cult Leaders are the same but I would fear any person deviant enough to take advantage of the weak minded and any person weak enough to be taken advantage of in such a manner.
Cult leaders have a "folie des grandeurs", their actions do harm people but in some way, people are harmed willingly, they may have a chance/choice to get out. With serial killers, their victims do not have a choice. So unless we're referring to cult leaders who advocate mass suicide or killing sprees, I'd say that serial killers are more dangerous.

Oh my god you just described me lol
… now I need to get a following and the world will be mine I tell you lol

I feel that either are a dangerous species as it were. LOL I mean Cult leaders are just as dangerous as a serial killer, only most Cult leaders do not dirty their hands to kill or destroy people, they have brain washed others to do their evil bidding . That in itself is a real work of art, to control or brainwash people to the point of giving up free will as it were.

Serial killers well they have no fear of dirting their hands and does the deed them self, they have to it is part of the genetic make-up you could say. I mean the thrill or ends of a means in their minds eye.

Cult Leaders have to be the ones who CONTROL others and they enjoy that. Technically they are both dangerous and just crazy, look at Manson.

When you see a cult it is insane, the children are often sexually and mentally abused, as well as the members. I think that a cult leader is much differant then a serial killer even though the cult is a form of self gratification just like the serial killers kills for the same reason,
I think there is some simalarities in the two but there are very differant in their thinking. Cult leaders often beileve they are fullfilling the will of god and there actions are saving those they harm where as the serial killer usually is not religion based.

A good book for cult awareness I found is Margret Thaler Singer- "Cults in our Midst", A interesting thread. The two topics seem to get as much media "glamerization as well, yet cult leaders don't get their own collector card series like serial killer, Jim Jones I wouldd call him a Cult Leader/Spree Killer. Heavens Gate Pact cults in general.. I look into the motive of cult leaders.. the motive of serial killers and I shiver quite frankly..

Manson cultivated (no pun intended) a group that went on a killing spree only fractionally initiated by him. All he had to do was to let them fill in with their "free will" the details.

I would be more "afraid" of the cult leader than the serial killer...

Interestingly enough I view both as a for of social Darwinism. Both have an ability to draw prey in a manner that the victim will defend or even destroy themselves for the benefit of the Leader or killer although with the killer they do not get away until it’s too late.

There is an element of allure with these people, and often a great charisma that they carry to change the views of what are “normal” people. Look at the “Green River killer” he worked as a painter, and viewed killing as his job. If you met him (friends of mine worked with him for over 5 years) he was quite and awkward in person, basically someone the women at work described as creepy but harmless.

It is their ability to play off of people’s fears and egos that allows them the complete power that they hold over their prey.

As MBK said it depends on what type as to how “scary” they are, but personally I think both in their worst forms use manipulation and fear to their outcomes (Ted Bundy).

While cult leaders can manipulate the masses, a serial killer can often seem to be random, or sporadic so that people have no idea how to protect themselves.

People that have family members in cults.. suffer like the families of victims of serial killers.. only they know that their loved ones are alive..

That is a very accurate thing you said Dabbler...And to know they are alive in that continuous evil is a nightmare in itself.

Excellent thread. I have always had a keen interest in serial killers, however, I have not delved into learning more than the average person regarding cults and their leaders. That said, on to your questions:

How do you view cults?

I feel that cults, generally speaking, are often just an extreme form of religion. Fanatics, basically. Zealots. People who have such difficulty focusing and maintaining on their own that they gravitate towards other like-minded individuals.

Do you view Cult leaders just a different form of ‘serial killer’?

I could see where one could draw a parallel between the two, however, I think they might be a bit different.
Serial killers kill because they must. It's a driving force. Cult leaders, on the other hand, I think start out trying to find their niche, a place where they, with their ideals and convictions, do not feel alone. Because of these feelings, and perhaps alienation from their own family members and friends, they, too, gravitate towards like-minded people - however, I think they gravitate more towards people whom they can lead and influence towards their own personal beliefs, however bizarre they may be.

Do you think a Cult leader has the same tendencies of a serial killer, but not enough ‘guts’ to actually be one?

Not necessarily. Again, I think cult leaders are born out of a need to belong and or feel important and less alone.
Serial killers, on the other hand, simply kill out of an often unexplained, mysterious driving force. They kill because they must.
I don't think cult leaders become cult leaders simply to cause death. I think that the death that happens in cults are often just a consequence of being mentally unstable to begin with. Or perhaps, the deaths have something to do with fear of being wrong in what they believed in, or the fear of being disbanded.

Which one do you find more ‘dangerous’?

I think, for the most part, they are equally dangerous. Although, with a serial killer, you don't need to be a member of a cult to die, nor a weak minded individual. Serial killers will simply pick you out and snuff you out.

Victims have memorials.. cult members are seldom ever remembered.. they usually change their names, denounce their families.. serial killers take one victim at a time and kill them out right.. some torture.. but a cult member is keep for other purposes like cattle, rendering their will and life to the leader, or common call.. a serial killers victim is stocked like prey, a cult follower is herded.

I find both scary for many of the reasons listed already...One thing to note is that the cult leader is more out in the open, whereas the serial killer is hidden, and can possibly do more damage in the long run.
I also want to mention that my mom worked with a woman whose whole family - daughters, sons -in-laws, grandchildren - were wiped out in Jonestown. She had one daughter left - who was always considered the black sheep of the family and didn't fall for the religious nonsense of Jim Jones.

there are similarities - particuary of motive, but there is a big diference . in most cases serial killers lack the charisma of cult leaders - they coud never gather followers. there are a few exceptions, but most seriall killers are described as quiet, socially inept and with little inflluence. cult leaders are just the opposite.

How do you view cults?
I view cults as dangerous due to the fact that the leader is able to take over the minds of the members and basically make them do what ever he wants them to do.

Do you view Cult leaders just a different form of ‘serial killer’?
Cult leaders can be a different form of serial killer because if there is a threat of being caught they will basically order the members to kill themselves. The leaders also will convince the members that they need to kill for the good of the community

Do you think a Cult leader has the same tendencies of a serial killer, but not enough ‘guts’ to actually be one?
I think they like the idea of killing but are afraid to carry out the murders so they get the members to do it for them.

Which one do you find more ‘dangerous’?
Both are dangerous. The serial Killer can be in the same restaurant as u or the store. You never know when they wuill attack. Cult leaders will brain wash thier members to do what ever they need to for the good of the community

cult leaders use publicity a a potential recruit tool, serial killers brag, and taunt police , Zodiacused the media well. .

I don't at present equate cult leaders with serial killers. Cults are particularly fearsome to me for their potential to attract blind allegiance to them, especially on the part of women.

This article is fascinating:


Within certain cultic groups we find that the leader exercises sexual domination and control over the members. Often in such groups, each female member is purportedly afforded a “special” relationship with the leader, and of course that “special” relationship is one that must be held confidential, kept secret from every other member of the group--that is, until the women find that they all have had the same “special” relationship with the leader. This involves, again, a tragic elimination of the individual personality and a gender‑specific abuse of sexual power.

Women and Cults

Yes and making men in the cult Neutered is a practiced theme as well.

The woman some not aware of the casteration will think the leader the only one sufficient to satisfy them.

A cult leader. For the simple fact that the cult leader has followers that will continue the cause. Meaning they'll tell two friends and so on. Whereas a serial killer
doesn't have a large group of followers or has friends to carry on what he/she has done.

I am a little baffled at the amount of people who are more scared of a serial killer than a cult leader.

With the amount of brain washing that can take place at a cult compound, I would have thought a large group of followers would be scarier since you are not fully aware of the things that are being placed within their minds.

David Koresh and the compound he ran were not only made up of adults, there were also children involved. Children are innocent. Their minds can be molded and warped into things beyond belief. If they start being brainwashed at an extremely early age, there is no telling what the future can hold for them. And with saying that, there is no telling what the future will hold for the off spring that they have. They will teach their ways and it will be a never ending cycle unless broken by a strong minded.

I don't think that every serial killer or cult leader fits the mold that people have outlined them to be or act like. I think there are expectations to every situation.

I think both in a sense like people who are 'weak minded' and they can form that control over them. Almost like an addiction to being the 'bigger' person.

John Wayne Gacy could be an example of a person wanting control of the weak minded. During his killings he was known to offer his victims marijuana, he also sought after boys who were 'gay'. Both can give some sort of hold over the person and make the killer seem like the 'bigger one'.


What I find a little disturbing is John Wayne Gacy is clearly dead, but who is to say that there are not victims of the brainwashing that David Koresh taught, lurking about and teaching them to more and more people. They could be growing to become something that no one really knows.

I also would be more fearful of acult leader than a serial killer..

Okay...

Saying you are more scared of one or the other.. is NOT adding to any discussion. It is like an alternate version of " I agree" or "yes and no". I see it as nothing more than a attempt to raise post counts.

Anymore of those.. and they are gone.

I believe that a serial killer is more of someone that wishes to be a loner...that or he lacks the social skills to be a cult leader.

I personally would be more scared of a cult leader than a serial killer...cult leaders are normally charismatic and outgoing individuals that are capable of swaying others to their ways of thinking with little or no effort.
Usually their followers are very protective of that leader too.

The Reverend Jim Jones and the People's Temple is a good example for that.

Care for some Kool Aid anyone?

How do you view cults?
I view cults as places where people of one type of belief or culture unite to discuss their beliefs and mingle with their own kind.

Do you view Cult leaders just a different form of ‘serial killer’?
In some cases this has been proved to be true. But not in all cases. Serial killers have a different mind set than cult leaders. MOST serial killers are loners and don't want to be near anyone they might end up "liking". Cult leaders tend to be more compassionate with people to gain their trust and then later they can turn homicidal if that is where their thinking leads them.

Do you think a Cult leader has the same tendencies of a serial killer, but not enough ‘guts’ to actually be one?
Yes to a degree but again it goes back to whether or not the cult is truly a cult as I described above. A place of gathering etc. Many people think the Hare Krishna are a true cult (a whole other story/topic), but I have yet to hear of one turning into a serial killer - I could be wrong however.

Which one do you find more ‘dangerous’?
Equally as dangerous as the other, but on different levels. Cult leaders "hunt" for members to join - serial killers hunt alone and for an individual in which to kill and leave for the authorities to figure out who did it and why.

in response to the person that said " Whereas a serial killer
doesn't have a large group of followers or has friends to carry on what he/she has done. " ..

though it may be true that Serial Killers dont have someone to CARRY ON what they started, MANY of them have LARGE bases of followers...

google Richard Ramirez, he has FAN SITES !

Tons of research has been done on the charisma and ability of certain serial killers to gather up quite a following from behind bars, and contrary to popular belief its NOT ALL women lol

Myself, i have done extensive research on Ramirez, to the point of actually corresponding with him for over a year, and if EVER there was a candidate for Cult Leader, its Richard... from opposite sides of the country, and with letters as our only communication, he tried to spin his web and literally THOUSANDS of women have fallen for it , and men ... check with google.. lots of men and young boys IDOLIZE him, for his satanism, and what they view as his strengths... and want to be JUST like him ....

A member of the jury that CONVICTED him, has made it her lifes goal to PROVE HIM INNOCENT... he gets BAGS of mail EVERY DAY ...

He is MARRIED to one of his followers, the marraige taking place AFTER he was sent to death row

THAT my dear... is a cult leader.. maybe not a CLASSIC one, but a cult leader none the less..


Personally, lol i have plans for my RR collection ... when they FINALLY fry the sick bastid... im heading straight to eBay to take advantage of all his followers :)

Well Noted Kamy.. Murder-abilia is a rising market. Gacys' paintings.

Yet notice that hardly anyone remembers the names of the victims.
Let alone the detective that worked the case.
Did you know the reason Ricard was caught so "quickly"? It was because the case detectives where former Zodiac Hunters. His Wide Spree pattern over lapped two of the most hard core detective devision in California. Trained in the wake of the Zodiac Case.

I view them differently. A serial killer is more for the rush of an immediate conquest. A cult leader is more for the prolonged power. That's why serial killers keep going back- once one is dead, the rush leaves quickly. There are quick, short 'highs' with serial killers. Yes, they are both odd ducks... but they have different 'drugs' of choice with different pleasures. There are usually different kinds of violence.

I wrote a piece of flash fiction about a serial killer that can be found in 'The Written Word' section of House Eternal, but also here in my journal titled 'The Immaculate Patch Of Green' (second entry).

I have always been intrigued by serial killers (not in a positive way). My sister and grandmother were murdered by a serial killer in 1996. But even before then, I had always been on a journey of the human mind and why people do the things they do.

I fear the serial killer more, because with a cult leader (as it is not such an instant thing)... you do have time to gather wits. Serial killers flip without notice, cult leaders have a gradual build.

Henry Lucas introduced perhaps as many as three people to his "hobby".

So there is the potential for serial killers to have accomplishes. Some Cult leaders stumble upon their "call". Not intending to start a cult, but just to fleece a few in a passing manner. Oppertunistic S.K. seem to stay on the run longer then the fixated motive S.K.

Cult leaders that "free range" their followers are seldomely labeled cult.
Usually compounded communities are labeled cults, even though they have no cult elements.

The variation between Spree Killer ( Richard Speck, Larry Singleton),
and a Serial Killer. Those that need to be "caught of guard" by the urge to Kill as opposed to those that chose it as a career specialty. The cult leader that doesn't want to be around his followers but wants their support and continues to extract their resources, they are likely to spawn secondary "splinter groups" the potential for graft is very real. So if say there are 2 people in every 100 that have the potential to be a Spree killer there could be a simuliar ratio of potential cult leaders, both just being oppertunistic.

I agree totally with you, Images.

The thing about cult leaders, although they are dangerous, manipulating people, you have to have the right type of mindframe to be pulled into their orbit. Whereas with serial killers, you don't have to be a person easily manipulated, or controlled. You don't have to be weak minded, or come from a difficult homelife, etc.. to fall into the cross hairs of a serial killer.

Serial killers simply pick out who they want to kill. Some have even been random. Or at least, seemingly random.

Although I do feel they are both dangerous, I, personally speaking for my own health and life, would be much more afraid of a serial killer.

I am not easily manipulated or controlled, and I would never be tempted to join a cult, so fearing a cult leader and his followers, for the most part, doesn't seem like something I would ever have to be fearful of. Granted, with everything, there are exceptions (Manson's followers for example killing Sharon Tate and her guests for what I am sure appeared to them to be without reason), but I am speaking generally here.

Like I had said, death by a serial killer doesn't require being involved in a cult. It's much too random, at least from a victim's perspective, I would imagine.

I don't consider cult leaders and killers the same thing.
One can be a serial killer and have any different form or job or religion.

there are a few serial killers who started out as cult leaders, i can see how it would be easy to make the jump.

I am coming to understand that Cult leaders like serial Killers view there Victims/Followers as much less then themselves. nothing but a means to gratify their needs and whims.. the serial killers "lesser beings/mortals" are used and then discarded, a cult leader uses them until the "gig is up". What they are likely to do to avoid being exposed and possibly having those "Lesser unenlightened people" turn against them.. that will peek the option to "throw out their toys".

one of the definitions from Dictionary.com

2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness
cult.


With that said, Christianity is a cult as it follows a person (Jesus), the ideal that we can be forgiving for our "sins", go to this place of so called "heaven", etc. and has a body of admirers

i think that they both are just as dangerous as the outher .
ed gean a serial killer of women try to use the body parts he hacked up to make the perfect woman but lets not forget he used to dig up the graves and steal bodys before he started killing. and he used the body parts as utencils around his house. ( skulls as bowls and etc) pretty sick and warped if you ask me .

manson a cult leader took the kids and pretty much made them think he was a massia . thought if he could get kids to kill he could start a racial war. so he sent them out on murdering sprees. just as sick and warped i think.

all serial killers have there own reason why they kill . i think some cult leaders are the same look at georgetown and how many died there at his beliefs and his comand.holding them at gun point and makeing them drink the poisionous concoction.so he forced them to kill themselves.

so in the end i think they are both dangerous because they both feed off of there own beliefs and pleasures wether it be haveing outhers follow your every word and die when they are told or killing those so you can get a sexual pleasure from it and kill for those reasons . so in turn people are killed so its about the same by either haveing your cult commit mass suicide by your brain washing and beliefs or by takeing that life by your own hands. they are still killers and kill in mass .

Serial Killers are a clear case for criminal charges, they will likely get locked up right away,( Bundy escaped), but a Cult Leader is likely to be O.R.ed So that they can skip the country or juristiction, possibly gathering new followers.

HHW...

I really don't want this to become anything of a "religious" topic. I am gearing this towards cults in general not based on any form of religion.

Splinter Groups (using altered text and teachings) are worth noting in context of cults, I would agree though, to clump religions in with cults is extreme. it also lessens the attention from active cults, and gives hate mongers fodder.

Serial Killers and Cult Leaders are only the same if the Cult Leader kills and this is not typical behavior most of the time. All religious groups are "Cults", some are just more accepted "Cults". Many people hate anyone who is different than they are, they are so insecure with their own belief's they have to attack someone else's belief's to feel comfortable about their own pathetic existance. They run around like "Chicken Little", screaming "The sky is falling", when in reality there is nothing wrong.

Serial killers are the worst in my opinion.

I always thought that serial killers liked working on thier own not discussing plans you look at most of the serial killers in the past and they are loners etc with only the minor few sharing there experiences. Maybe Im wrong....... and as for Cult leaders well I think that heading gives it away the need the hangers on for moral support and to do the things they cant do dont they

I think it is a power issue - serial killing isn't about killing per se, rather abbout powerless or unsatisfied individuals satisfying that need by exacting the ultimate power of life or death. Cult leaders have a desire for power also and satisfy that through the actions of their cult. Whether or not a cult leader exhibits serial killer tendencies is an individual thing rather than there being any de facto link.

The way officials handle them are very different.. cult leaders are protected by their followers, or met with law suits..

serial killers taunt the police but elude them. Cult leaders seek a more word of mouth recruiting , staying out of mainstream media, yet being visible to would be seekers.

Serial Killers and Cult leaders and only two things in common....

1) the willingness to kill.... wiether it’s for the continuence of power or to satisfy their psychological needs….

2) a delusional believe of superiority….. Serial killers and Cult leaders always believe they are better then everyone else and are above the law…..

The only real difference is Cult leaders require followers to stroke their egos…. Serial Killers prefer to work alone, so they alone can “enjoy” the ego-rush they feel.

Cults and serial killers. I feel a tie there, but I'm not sure where exactly.

However, Look at Jim Jones, cult leader and mass murderer of hundreds. The is surely a link.

Personal expeirance speaks when I say, I used to live next door to a serial killer in south carolina. They usually stay to themselves. My adopted "parents" in north carolina were members of a cult called "word of faith" for many years and I was phyically mentally and sexually abused the entire time. They owned the ENTIRE town including the hospital, the sheriff was a member and also the prosocuting attorney at the court house.... u see much larger scale. If they couldn't buy out ur buiness, they'd burn it to the ground.
Now the reason I say the cult is more dangerous is because its more people acting on a much larger scale.
Imagine, a serial killer hates redheads, all redheads on his street must die! But hes just one man... it may take him many nights, and due to his patterns (serial killers always have patterns) he may get caught in the process. And since MOST serial killers work alone he has no one to even bail him outta jail.
Now lets say "word of faith" decides to kill all redhead people becuz they are "the devil"... They will have a little pow wow, get organized... They may even just invite all the redheads on their block to "church" one night. Once they are there lock the doors and kill everyone. Or they may all go house to house one night to "cleanse" the neighborhood one street at a time.
Now which (due to sheer mass volume in numbers) is more dangerious?

yeah i think a big difference between the 2 most serial killers are loners but for a few or have a small group if any they feel comfortable with

Most serial killers are loners but there are a few that are not. Charles manson can be classified as both a serial killer and a cult leader. He had a little following and they did all his dirty work for him

Although Sqeaky was the first to coin the phrase the Family, Manson only wanted entertainment for his Car theft ring, and Drug Dealers.

The Incident with the mescaline set things in motion, and the resulting "cover-up' attempt.

Wow, dabbler, you must really like the type. Every other post I see in here is yours. :)


Serial Killers prefer to work alone, so they alone can “enjoy” the ego-rush they feel.

Actually this is not true.

There are cases where the serial killer has enlisted another person to help them. You can find some of them here .

I find assuming they prefer to work alone a little dangerous. It can leave you open for a double whammy without expecting it. Serial Killers are highly intelligent. Always expect the unexpected.

Personally, I think both are equally scary. Based on the characteristics that each one holds, it seems as though they can target ‘different people’. With the recent entries by news casters and stories that have emerged from within the actually compounds themselves, it seems as though some of the stronger minded people are breaking free and trying to spread the word of the cruelty that can go on within the walls.

I do not think all cults are bad. At times I find that the media will showcase the worst of the worst in order to either bring awareness of the world or for ratings. Even though it does help the world’s knowledge of what can go on underground, it can also tarnish the names of those that really have no other purpose than to gather together and admire something they all have in common.

As I sit here I my mind fills with wonder. A Serial killer has a purpose or a reason for wanting to kill the person that they target. It could be something that was done to them as a child. For example, maybe they were molested. They begin to stalk out people who are known child molesters. Maybe they get this information off the internet or other ways. They make it their personal goal to exterminate the person who has done wrong in their eyes. They hunt the prey; they toy with them and then kill them. So who would be in the wrong more, the serial killer or the child molester?

With the amount of power a Cult leader has over people, I am surprised that more people from cults are not ‘serial killers’.

i do think cult leader are a form of a serial killer as stated by some above that they can kill in masses. by haveing there followers kill them selves or go out and kill for them. cult leaders are a form of a meglo maniac.

a meglo maniac is a control freak who is in charge of the killings and when the get there followers to kill people they get the same satisfaction out of those killings as a serial killer does.

the cult leader i think would be the most dangerous because to stop a serial killer you only have to stop him.

to stop a cult leader (meaglo maniac) you have to build three times the case because your dealing with the whole cult not just the leader.

I really dont think they have anything in common. A serial killer just goes out and kills for the glory or thrill of it (so to say), they dont always know the person they kill.

A Cult leader knows all his followers and usually kills because of outside intervention.

I have been studying Forensics for quite some time now. And no, a serial killer by definition is a person that kills for enjoyment. And all it takes to be classified as a serial killer is 2 victims. The research I've done on the subject is extremely disturbing. In the late sixties there was a case where a man killed small children by bludgeoning them. And it was proven that while he was committing these heinous acts he would ejaculate profusely. This is actually very common amongst serial killers. But as for your profile of the average nature. it can be debatable because of the "nature V.S nurture" theory.
Were they born a killer? Or were they made a killer by years of systematic abuse and humiliation? I personally think it can go both ways.

darkXwhisper, I would have to agree that serial killers kill for enjoyment. I believe that both serial killers & cult leaders are either insane or borderline on being insane. Cult leaders seem to believe they are doing the right thing. Serial killers often times, know and understand what they are doing is wrong. They just seem to have no control or enjoy it so much. They both seem equally dangerous to me.

i believe there is a huge difference and that they chouldnt be put together. cultt leaders kill for sacrificial reason, serial killers kill just because.

I think that both types are very dangerous. However the cult leader can manipulate others to do their bidding for them. Sometimes this can create a larger threat than one killer. However, cults and cult leaders usually make themselves known to gain more followers. In that light, the lone killer seems like the most dangerous, you never really know who he or she is untill it may be too late.

I shall tell you about serial killers. They usually are very neat organized and clean. They are the people you would least expect. Just a few pointers

From the little I know about serial killers, and from the lists of characteristics listed at the beginning, they sound like sociopaths: egomaniacal, often sadistic, antisocial, compulsive, impulsive, manipulative. I can't pretend that all killers are sociopaths, as some are just insane and need it as either an outlet or some other self-gratification.

jim jones , david curesh are both serial killers and cult leaders they were crismatic and took many innosence down the wrong path

A cult leader is more dangerous, just for the fact he can influence so many people with his / her insanity to mass destruction.

A serial killer works alone and has a more personal level with whom he is killing. Yet it is not usually done in mass destrution yet one at a time to make a point.

I feel that it is easier to take down a serial killer than to try and take out a cult leader AND ALL his Followers. just an opinion.

Fewer Cult Leaders are brought to Justice then, serial killers, Serial killers are a clear threat to people, cult leaders are usually hard to charge.

I think cult leaders are a type of serial killer and a greater threat. They use their skills to even weaken the strongest around them and can convince them to do things because they have their victims on a high level of trust and admirity.

A cult leader also looks for certain traits in a person as does a serial killer.

Sex
Religion
Morals
Wants
Needs
Desires
Appearance
Social Status
and Demeanor

Both want to dominant their victims and lord power over them.

Or want to be loved and even if that person or persons love them. They kill them so their victims will always love them.

Well not in all cases. Cult leaders have a strong power of manipulation. Charles Manson though what he was doing was good. And led others to believe that too. A cult leader is ten times more brilliant and powerful than a serial killer. And much more terrifying.

manson never killed anyone he made other people do it for him i think manson should be free

Serial killers are outlaws, a danger to society and must be stopped... Cult leaders are also dangerous, but that depends on the ways of their cults... If they are like Manson's Cult, then they must be stopped... If they are like... Jesus (yes, christianity was a cult at the beginning), then, they tried to be stopped, they won, then the christians began persecuting other cults... but the principles of christianity and any other good principle that leads to a good life must be followed...

Yes I see the similarities & I had already come to the conclusion myself. Like someone said, cult leaders are hard to charge, with all their little minions willing to take the fall for them for the sake of the leader.

true but did manson ever try to kill himself

I think the word cult is thrown around too freely. I mean it seems like if a group of people that don't live or believe how the "norm" is then the media decribes it as a cult. There are still people to view wicca, santanism, and now the fdls as cults. As far as serial killers theyv'e been around for decades if not centuries. I do believe that serial killers are getting smarter. We don't hear much about either. It is only when one or another makes a mistake to get caught or gets overly arogant that we hear about it.

Suggested reading on the Definitions of cult, I agree just throwing around the term is not wise.. people say"oh churches are cults." well cults use that to hold onto their followers.. " we are just like a church.."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Singer

no manson didnt kill anyone himself but he ordered his followers to do so . so there for just as gulity as the ones who actually commited the murders. if manson was free he said numerious times hed go right out and do it again. he is a very sick individual that feeds off of fear and attention. he should of been thrown away and forgoten . yet is still getting the attention he craves by all the media interviews he gives and countless people that are wrighting books that go in and interview him. no manson should never be released he i think is one of the scariest cult leader i had read about. most serial killers dont want the attention or dont want anyone finding there trophy kills. but some have like the zodiac killer. they all are deranged and have there own reason or there own drive for there killings. some are just worse than outhers.

Seems like a lot of cult leaders wind up in jail or facing criminal charges. They may start out charismatic and fascinating, but a lot of them seem to descend into a form of madness, where they think they are above the law and whatever they do is ok. Cult leaders and serial killers are about the same in my book...they both steal your soul, but the serial killer ends up stealing your life as well.

The most recent and disturbing news about cult leaders is about the one in Texas, were older men were married by "spiritual communion" with underaged girls and got them pregnant... There were actually children with children there, and the cult leader was already wanted for pedophilia... and now his lawyers said that they cannot charge him or that they want the abused children to be returned because the intervention by child services was "illegal"...
Most cults turn this way... and it seems there is no limit to what they can do...

How do you view cults?
I personally view cults as a group of people brain washed by one individual that has a talent for seeking out and finding the weakest in society and manipulating them into seeing them as a kind of king or messiah. Then they turn those out to seek new members to spread the manipulation.

Do you view Cult leaders just a different form of ‘serial killer’?
I can understand the similarities to cult leaders, and serial killers. However I think they are worlds apart. A serial killer tends to work alone, is fugitive in their movements and do their best to look as normal as possible. Which is why you hear a lot of 'he was just an nice quiet neighbour'. Cult leaders on the other hand have to be public have a need to be worshipped and loved by their followers. As well as that strong need to control everyone around them. Brain wash them into believing they are next to god.

Do you think a Cult leader has the same tendencies of a serial killer, but not enough ‘guts’ to actually be one?
I think what separates a cult leader and a serial killer is at the cult leader actually has more guts than a serial killer. A cult leader is bold and uses charisma to woo his members into joining him. Twists their minds to make them believe they can't live without him. And that he is right the world is wrong.
With a serial killer this is all personal going on in his head. He only has the confidence to make the kill and then return to the darkness he came from.

Which one do you find more ‘dangerous’?
In all honesty they are both just as dangerous as the other. Only a strong willed person could keep away from a charismatic cult leader. With a serial killer you could be just at the wrong place at the wrong time. Both are deadly and dangerous to all members in society. To me there is no difference in how damaging and dangerous they are.

i think both r equaly dangerous but in different ways

Manson quoted....."If i wanted, I could eliminate everyone on this earth." No he shouldn't be free. because he watched his followers stick a fork in Sharon Tates stomach just to watch it jiggle and then wrote "PIG" on the door of her house in her blood. I'm sorry, but he is sick. And he may not have actually commited the crimes, but he got off on it just the same. And a person like that is not mentally stable enough to live in society.

I belive they are same one dosen't kill right away but other will kill right away

Charles Manson
was by far the most scarry of cult leaders and as a killer the most cold hearted in my veiw

serial killer at least with him/her you know your going to die. With a cult leader he kills you from the inside out i feel. Brain meses you up.. serial killers will just slice and dice you.. Cult leaders keep you guessing and are scarier due to the fact you don't know when your going to die or if you going to die.

One of the biggest cult leaders/serial killers in history... in my opinion... was Adolph Hitler... think about it!

Charles manson is a PSYCHO!!!!!

and a cult leader!

he used people to do his dirty work....

he is more responsible for murders done by his followers then they are!

They were stupid little sheep....

he was their sheppard....

and when the sheep do wrong..... it's the sheppards fault....

Manson is just lucky California did not have the Death penelty at the time of his trial....

They did hawk.. and they all got it with the execption of the Black sheep
she got a life sentence.. all the sentences where commuted to life sentences, when the death penalty was placed on moritorium.

I believe that a cult leader is somewhat as you say.But they also go after the weak.The people they can brain wash.Like jim jones he was a psyco (personal opinion) and then you had the cult who all killed themselves thinking hale bop (comet) would take them to heaven

And I could have been on that ship had I only had 200 more dollars for the shoes and Cloak..

I know someone that was a child when his mother was sent to Jim Jones for his Recovery Program.. She got out before the kool-aid was served.

Speaking of serial killers - the Zodiac Killer has never been identified and caught. I remember how scared everyone was in the San Francisco/Stckton area during his spree; parents used to scare their kids to behave by saying crap like 'The Zodiac is coming!"

I was kept from playing outside during the reign of the Night Stalker.. I do believe they narrowed the Zodiac down to two suspects one that they nearly caught.. the other died in jail, doing time for something else.. the killing coincided with his other crime spree. His location had proxy to the Zodiacs Area as well, I should dig that info up.

http://english.people.com.cn/200609/15/eng20060915_303197.html


http://www.rickross.com/reference/general/general955.html

eventually they are brought to justice..

Cult leader usually display more sociopath characteristics than serial killers...oOooOOoo...so do I.

Kool Aid anyoone? I made it muhself :D

I think is the other way around; only that serial killers do all the work themselves; cult leaders have a more strong personality and the ability to influence other people in doing their plans... cult leaders are much more dangerous than serial killers because they can act on a much wider scale.

Adolf Hitler wasn't a cult leader, Remotecontrol.

Just a brilliant person who happened to be insane.

Apparently they are pretty much the same thing! Still, I don't think some cult leaders would kill.....but then, they do get pretty crazed for their cause. I guess that is a big difference between them. The cult leaders have a cause. Serial killers like feet. :P

I am waiting on a movie on Jim Jones.

I feel it is to do with something in the brain an illness caused by love hate feeling like an outcast or other
They find a way in wich to feel powerful and important
And that is the way they achive that threw killing having
power over others

When they have no power over them selves

This thread has really drawn me back to my earlier intrest and my current interest , I have located in research the one area where they differ, Cult leaders recruit they even have their followers recruit "victims/members". Serial killers are hunters, they may (H.Lucas, Richard Speck, Charles Nynge, and whats his name.. they all had accomplises/recruits.. that got me thinking about how some feel that Zodiac and Berkawitz (Son Of Sam) could have been a Serial Killer Collective/cult.. I have to research what became of that over time , it has been a while since any reference to it.

A movie about the Reverend Jim Jones would be excellent, seeing as he was so charismatic that he was able to "rub elbows" with Walter Mondale and former First Lady Rosalyn Carter.

And Gacy rubbed elbows with some up right members in politics as well.. hehe I said up-right members

Comparing religion to cults and calling churches cults , enforces the cult mentality, that "Look the general population (actually a minority) see you as just like a church.." That is an example of reverse spin. With a high light contextual twist.

Hmmm great now my mind is confused because yes some people can say church is like a cult.. But at least a church wont kill you, serial killer will. Makes you think though. but hey that is why we are all different.

That begs the question, Epik, if they truly are sane, or just good at hiding it.

The word Cult as defined by Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) goes as follows:

1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.

2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.

3. the object of such devotion.

4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.

5. Sociology. a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.

6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.

7. the members of such a religion or sect.

8. any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific.

9. of or pertaining to a cult.

10. of, for, or attracting a small group of devotees: a cult movie.


Now regarding the type of cult in this discussion, it can be defined by the sixth definition. However, religion can also fall under the given definition of cult as seen by several of these definitions that the word cult defines.

Christianity, for an example, was once considered a cult. Christians had to hide, and their leader was murdered. However, since then, it has gained so much popularity that it transcended the word cult and is now considered a legitimate, acceptable religion.

Cults can be horrible, violent and extreme as history has shown. But, cults can also be benign and eventually transcend the definitions once associated with it, as Christianity has shown us.

There are a few ways to look at this. Certainly interesting stuff, that's for sure. :)

Religiously, people are normally looking for something to believe in that makes them feel happy. If some lunatic comes up with an idea that attracts people, it would be so easy for him to befriend them and convince them that his way is right and develop loyal followers who would do anything for him.

The cult leader is nothing more than a master of mind manipulation and is far more dangerous to large groups of people.

This thread has been automatically closed for length.