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Who were the fathers of magic? When did it all start? Where? Why? Could someone answer this for me?

I would imagine that the first "Fathers" were in fact women. They would have to be in-tuned with the Earth as a whole. Women are naturally closer to the planet and it's power. Being empowered and grounded by the Earth they would also be aware of Heavenly energy and would have learned how to use and create with it.
The first records that we have are that of Lemuria and Mu. Both are well known for their feminine aspects and goddess energy.

Great call Billy, the beginnings did in fact start in Lemuria...Although it was equally practiced by both genders...

The ancient land of Lemuria has been lost to our modern histories but the memory of its Golden Age lives on in our Dreaming. There is no conclusive scientific or archaeological evidence to prove its prior existence; yet, for thousands of years the Polynesian storytellers have passed on the legend of Mu about a continent in the Pacific Ocean that was the motherland of humanity and the Lemurians.

Although Dr. Javier Cabrera found Pre-Inca stone tablets in Peru with detailed maps of the lost continents of Atlantis and Lemuria, and, three decades ago researchers in Hawaii decided that there were Lemurian ruins between Maui and Oahu, the lost continent of Lemuria is still considered by many to be more of a myth than a reality.

The American medium Edgar Cayce, who became famous for his psychic readings, reported that Lemuria disappeared before Atlantis was destroyed. Occultists thought that the continent of Mu spanned much of the southern hemisphere and only fragments (Australia, Easter Island, Fiji Islands, Hawaii, Madagascar, etc.) of it now remained.

Lemuria was thought to be the homeland of a telepathic race of people with fully developed psychic abilities whose surviving populace migrated to Atlantean enclaves when the continent sank. After reading the Akashic Records, Rudolf Steiner stated that Lemuria included sections of Africa and southern Asia and had stretched from Ceylon to Madagascar.

In the oral traditions of the Eskimos, Mayans, and Native Americas, the sacred record keepers tell stories about how they were descendants of the people we now call Lemurians. One interpretation of a section of "The Mayan Troano Codex" detailed the destruction of Lemurian Mu.

During the past century, most writers placed Lemuria, a nature orientated, village culture of healers, holy people, seers, shamans, and oracles, in the Pacific Ocean. Lots of channelers and psychics told people about the past lives they had lived there. Some even suggested that the people who populated Lemuria were originally from another planet. The most influential of the theories about the lost continent were those of James Churchward, Madame Blavatsky, and the nineteenth and twentieth century scientists.



http://www.spiritsongs.org/Lemuria_Lemurian_Mu_Ancient_Civilization.htm

ummm, we know this. I do have memories of the place which is why I'm working with sound as a healing tool. But, that doesn't answer the question asked.

I'm pretty shure it's all been said.

I would need to know your definition of magic. I know people who refer to several different paths as magic, and they resemble nothing of the old religions. Are you wanting the ancients of Lemuria and Mu, or the modern founders of the different movements? So far, what I have read has been interesting, and enlightening.

I believe magic was invented when a creature cradling a stone in its hand, moved the arm rapidly in a direction, and extended its fingers. Thus calling upon magic to make the stone fly.

Chanting, secret seals and words, killing cats, wands, pointy hats and so forth are all modern decorations of a basic idea.

I would think it all started with the old gods. like loki

i find my self often agreeing with you tyler.
I could imagine that having a light bulb in the dark ages would get you burn quicker than dancing naked under the moon.

just out of curiosity would you perscribe to the idea that the lemurians were another race altogether or just humans with a greater insite to the way the universe worked.

i believe that there wasn't so much magic as much as there were people who were more in tune with the earth and their surroundings because they had to be to survive . . . the reason it's so "odd" now is because we no longer have to even think to exist, much less be totally in tune with everything around us . . . so i suppose that would mean that i believe that magic began in the beginning (of the earth)

through the research i've done (which i will admit is very small compared to others) i found that angels were actually the ones that brought magic to earth. when they came down to "lay with the daughters of man" they also ended up teaching them impure angelic magic as well as bringing knowledge of weaponry, armor, and numerous other things.

of course that is up to opinion merely because my resource of getting that information is a forbidden book of the bible... the book of enoch to be precise. so... i guess the real answer would have to be up to what YOU yourself believe in.

the originators, would be the first ones to question, either mother or father, as to when it began, the first time someone thought to look past what only their eyes can see....
my guess is long before lemuria, mu, and any other place people can name, to when human kind first asked why that bright thing rises and falls daily, why the silver one does the same at night, etc..

When I think of the origin of magic I think of Gaelic beginnings.

i like what Daermon said. personally, i would say the fathers (or mothers) of magic were those prehistoric cave dwellers who painted pictures on the walls of the cave.

like hieroglyphics???

before heiroglyphics. the shaman would paint images of animals, and images of hunters killing the animals. this was sympathetic magic making the pictures would make it happen. maybe painting the animals on the wall would bring their spirits, and ensure a successful hunt. in the same way that medicine men dance the spirit of a beast, to ensure its spirit would return, and there would be more beasts to hunt.

i have another question that is relevant ... who do you think made magic popular amongst our number and more socially acceptable?

rancidmeat, I believe that was the Catholic church and the jews.
They have loads of rites and rituals that are acceptable.
A thing usually spawns an anti-thing.

I would say that BillytheJust said it best in the start of this post! I would have to also think it was probably women! They are more intune with the earth! As far as an exact who...I don't think that's something we will ever know the answer to!

penn and teller??

or did you mean "magick"... "magic" is pulling a rabbit out of a hat.

And I have to agree with billythejust on this one.

Magic is Magic.
"Magick" is just a crowley-ish complication of the word.
Much like "Vampyre" and "Wamphyr".
Very pointless.

CTyler


It represents a very real distinction, rather sad to compare it with "vampyre" because it actually means something. There must be a distinction between conventional entertainment and something that SOME people see as somewhat of a religion.

I think some of this is a matter of opinion of course. My belief is it all goes back to Shaminism, and to cut to several centuries and forgive my spelling here.
China, taoism,Knights Templar,druids,wiccan,Peter Carroll and Chaos magicks and the teaching of Liberman, which there is so much i did not include..from the beginning of time..all forms make our present day magicks. i do have a scale from the beginning to present day. if u are curious i can send it to u..it just does not copy and paste well here.

People see a great many things as a religion, and the term "Religion" gets broader and broader every day. One can't always tip toe around every subject, in case someone feel sensitive about it.

That is fine and dandy, but do you really care if someone wants to make a distinction? it can actually make things easier rather than complicate. When one says magick there will be no confusion as to what they mean.

"Magic" should be a handy allround term, encompassing all of that.
Much like Occult.

Room for confusion with people who don't know, for people not so educated as you and I, but....alright. Too bad that isnt the way everyone feels about it. People will do and say what they want regardless of what is politically correct.

yes i agree with billy on this one too....going back through the time women have always seemed to be more intuned with nature ...... and from there certain religons have picked up there ways and so on..... but i dont think we will ever really know.......and lol at the light bulb in caveman days......but yeah lightning struck the tree and caused fire there for it must be magic or a gift from god......

Yes, the more we begin to truly understand and unravel, the less and less we need magick now it is more of a SELF thing rather than a "I can change the world" thing, I will even go as far as to say the same goes for religion. When we find a more reasonable, plausible reasons for why things happen we no longer need what some see as primitive deduction. If it happened that way with fire, how can the same not go for other things.

A beginning to magic? Can you really say there was one? If you follow any of the paths they teach that magic is merely the energy of your will influencing reality for a certain outcome. So I would say the beginning was the first time someone put all their heart into a desire.

I think it started in Egypt and with the ancient gods.

satin is right. generally its believed that it all started in india.

I have no idea who did what and when it started. But I can say that I believe that Alister Crowley is truly a father of magic.

I believe that everyone has pretty much summed it all up.. Dont think i can add much more to it.

I will have to say that this is a tough question to answer and no two peoples answers are going to be the same...Everyone has their own beliefs and te own perceptions of how things have come about and also how they have evolved over time...fr me I would have to say that magic began at the time when someon first realized that a certain thought or train of thought could go way beyond the ordinary means of what others thought of it, and then acted on that impulse to come up with something new....

magic is just here, we all have it within us, unfortunately most will never use it because they wont channel it

I think 'magic' has been around as long as humans have been sentient.

Each era has its shining stars, and it is doubtful that more than a few have entered recorded history. Often this is by design :P.

Hi Irish man
Top of the morning to you sir
The question is not direct enough due to the many types of magic as mentioned already by windwalker and so forth.
All cultures know of a term for witchcraft but there is no real universal meaning of the word.
We know of stone age ritual magic to help hunting painted on caves(visualization)
We know of fertility stone figurines and sacrificing rituals.
We know all kings and queens descended from gods who used magic.. why the queen of England can be traced back to Oden.
We know much was destroyed by winning religions and the golden dawn took from old George Pickinhill (1816 – 1909) MR Gerald Gardner was well raveled and formed a rather popular magic
And my favorite the master of all Mr Alistair Crawley who supposed all before him in magic workings tried to work Solomon key for good and made an error we believe by not closing the portal. Latter he was ignored by England so he helped the German magic work, and thus was named by a news paper the most evil man around … later he called himself the beast (why not) a man who made dramatic leaps forward for good was targeted by the press and turned into some satanic man. Shame he couldn’t control the demons. He lost his wealth followed by friends and then his life.
Love is the Law, Love under will

I would have to agrre with Billy and even Daermon here..What I learned was passed to me by women and I was told things I would nevr be able to learn were deeper majicks that only women do ie can handle due to there sex. I learned the male path....

well, thats not exactly what happend to Crowley, but it works.

Keep in mind, when he was alive they prescribed heroin for asthma and big bottles of morphine for headaches :P.

I feel that magic has always been here man only discovered it as with fire . I dont acredit anyone for creating it.

I don't think ther is "father of magic." I think that the energys used in magic have always been around and people have learned different ways of tapping into that energy.

I believe that if you really need to look at the fact that christians are the ones who said worshiping other gods is a sin and anything you try to get from them is witchcraft,
We pagans have worshiped our gods our ways, Our preist are worlocks according to the chuch And Our Druids as well.

yes, it all depends on what type of magic you are talking about. energy minipulation has been around for a 1,000 years. but the begining of true spell magic is unknown.

I would say it originated in the India reagion around maybe close to Asia just below URSS (never know how to call that place) in between the indian ocean and the medetiraneen and black sea. I would put the origins of it mostly. That is the oldest part of earth so it would be the mostly logical place, as for its purpouse and why it was called likethat well the word itself is mainly is ether for magick
and for magic

this has beena very intresting page and i would say that i believe the fahters of magic where women and not men. That also the reason the page was started by asking who the'fathers' where is all because of perspectives. Its all about how you look at it.

Oh, Brokenaxe13fallen, you just made my day!!! I agree, but I think that some men deserve a little credit!! lol

Karnstein hit the nail on the head the first was painted on caves to help make the hunt go well

I don't think magic was the proprietary realm of either man or woman. I also don't think that there is a Father or Mother of Magic.

I agree, magic has been around for longer than any recorded or remembered history. I believe that if there was truly a Father of Magic, it'd be for the modern usage of magic, which could be considered Crowley. You could even point to Garner for his starting of Wicca. But these are only modern things.

Magic is the use of the will to effect a change in reality. Examples can be the hunter who can somehow discern there's a herd of deer or buffalo ahead, when there is hardly any signs to prove it, to the douser who finds water with divining rods.

There are many branches of magic started and followed seperately for ages, without much interference from others. If you want to learn how those started, perhaps specific areas were started by women, I don't know enough of specific branches anymore to be able to tell you.

you know I have been thing about this for a while now I think man is the father of magic with out mankind magic would not exist as we know it

I agree in that the father of magic was man

there was always magick..and why use the term "father"

I don't think the term "Father" is supposed to be taken literally...Unless you're sexist and in which case, you should avoid speaking in public lest you make many enemies...

I think it's along the same grounds as "Founding Fathers" blah blah blah. "Mankind" it's a general term for all people.
...Though I do think it could stand to be worded differently.

Druids perhaps

I am native (Indian) and as far back as the stories go there has been magic of one sort or another in healing the sick or making it rain. So I think that organized magic of some sort may have originated in lemuria but I think that magic has been around as long as there have been people to believe in it.

Animism is the first known religious practice, according to our evolutionary history, which allgedly originated with Cro-Magnon man over 30,000 years ago. "Magic" perhaps originated somewhere in the Fertile Crescent, such as Babylon or Sumeria. Their inginuity crafted many tricks that could deceive the eye, and create superstitions in beliefs of the supernatural.

i tend to think it would be females they tend to be more relaxed and openned minded and as such be more in control to take these steps and it would be easier being with mother earth. all books about the old time have the female who can do magic and the male as warriors or priests

No one truely knows who first practised magick... But i assume it began when the first man or woman was created or evolved...

This is from Wiki

The word magic ultimately derives from Magus (Old Persian maguš), one of the Zoroastrian astrologer priests of the Medes.

Likewise, sorcery was taken in ca. 1300 from Old French sorcerie, which is from Vulgar Latin *sortiarius, from sors "fate", apparently meaning "one who influences fate."

The belief that influence can be taken on supernatural powers, by prayer, sacrifice or invocation goes back to prehistoric religion, and is consequently present from the earliest records of a cultic nature, including the Egyptian pyramid texts and the Indian Vedas, among which the Atharvaveda in particularly addresses magic in the classical sense, and the position of the Vedic Brahmins, like that of any ancient priesthood, can be compared to that of magicians.

Looks like the cavemen pwned the magic, although, fire was considered magic. They also revered women as Gods, for the sacred ritual of childbirth was considered to be the greatest act, to be able to bring forth life.
That changed when Hera was knocked off the throne and replaced by a male god Zeus. but thats a different topic altogether

There are many histories of where it orginates, but in truth it is something that originates with us and our perceptions.

While some can come up with a scientific term, others would view it more as something more romantic. Either way it is our intent manipulating the world around us.

As our knowledge increases, we seem to forget that we are the ones in control of what we do and the chain of events that we can trigger. Too often I have seen people use spells as a way to shift their intent as an excuse.

It begins and ends with us.

im not shure on this one but my belife is that it started in the pre middle agges but it is said that the chinese also had magic so idk