i was recently sent this cutting by a friend of my mothers. It made me smile...
Goths are just nice teens with a dark sense of humour
By Matt Barnwell
Parents need not worry if their teenagers become Goths. A university study shows they are likely to become doctors, lawyers or architects.
The research found that “bourgeois” Goths are a class above the other youth cultures and get their kicks from books rather than drugs.
The Sussex university study says Goths, recognised by their black hair, pasty faces and morbid taste in music, are middle class to the core.
Dunja Brill, 32, who has a doctorate in media and cultural studies, studied Goths in Brighton, Edinburgh, Berlin and Cologne.
“They won’t like me saying it, but their lifestyle, unlike the punk scene, is a middle-class subculture,” she said.
Her research shows that Goths share a dark sense of humour.
“ The values of the Goth subculture are very high-brow,” she said “They tend to enjoy old poetry, books and the art.
“It is a peaceful subculture – drugs and anti-social behaviour do not play a big part.
“Many parents worry because they think their children may be depressed or suicidal when they start wearing black but this is not usually the case. They tend to have a sarcastic sense of humour and be able to express their feelings.
“Another worry is the fetish fashion of some Goths, especially with the females. But my research shows that the girls are not overtly sexual.
“In fact, they are usually believers of love and romance, not one night stands.”
Miss Brill says Goths were given bad press after the 1999 Columbine High School massacre in Colorado.
Lyrics penned by the singer Marilyn Manson were blamed for inciting the shooting in which 12 students and a teacher were killed.
“Most Goths don’t think of Marilyn Manson as being part of the subculture,” she said. “But even though he and some Goth bands do push the boundaries with their lyrics, these are not usually taken too seriously.
“Goths are not Satanists. They are usually intelligent youngsters who have rejected the idea that teenagers must fulfil certain criteria.
“Many teenagers carry on being Goths into their adult life, wearing toned-down clothes, having good jobs, mortgage, a car and children.”
That is very interesting to know. Usually the Goth community is overlooked. It hardly ever gets good press, if any.
Im not "goth" but this is very interesting, there have been a few things like this out there actually. Something like one state was given a huge grant to try to literaly "ban" goth from their comunity, but found out that there was no real problems and gave up lmfao.
there is not a goth comunity, i guess. This culture is being remeaned these days.. Same black-siders (who is only metal) and punkies (emos skaters) and acidics are called Goth. None clearly knows what gothic is.
It is great to see the goth subculture taken in a positive light by the media. I just wish more people would see the good of the culture and write about it.
for subcultures of gothic http://www.odk.com/wilson/goth/150.html
Finally, over and out with the prejudices... Was about time gothic got some positive attention... Though I do not see myself gothic (anymore).
As an outsider to the goth culture, I was actually pleasantly surprised to see the positive spin that this article provided. It's interesting because the prejudices that mainstream has against anything that isn't 'normal" is very powerful. And this article debunks that theory.
I normaly don't get involved in these threads because Im' a "goth illiterate" and don't want to get anything wrong. But now I see that lifestyle in a whole new light.
I may be moreso into the music and the art-- not so much the clothes, really.
Besides, stereotypes are everywhere and it is rather funny to be typecast.
Well said. I always say... "people who are goth are not bad... it'sthe people who are bad, that masque themselves in goth that you have to watch out for".
Finally something positive about the Gothic community.
i used to believe in titles and stuff like goth and punk but why dont u just be yourself. not have any guidelines and not be as easy as to categorise yourself for others. i am a very complicated person. i wear naything i want, listen to rock types of music, slay vampires (hehe) lol. see where i'm going with this? oh and when i was a goth my mum didnt care at all
Yes I agree,we need the good coverage ,to keep the jackas`s of are backs. :)
I have to say thank you for posting this.. Have often gotten asked by family members and co workers " what is a goth" and I find it very hard to explain it to them. One co-worker recently even said that when she first saw me outside of work she didnt recognise me and that I scared her in general because of the way I dress.
She said that if she had not gotten to know me both at work and outside of it, that she would never have learned what a great person that I am and never would have looked twice at some other people she knows.
Its all perspective...
This thread is great.
I never really considered myself Goth, but everyone else does, and they say I'm a weirdo, a freak, my own father is always critisizing me for it. They think I worship the devil, and that I'm suicidal, or emo or soemthing. My fahter hates black. I wish he would read this post, it's nice. Thank you.
tis truely interesting to know but that still wont stop persecution from parents or other groups
** but like i care if they persecute * they persecute what they fear
very interesting I wish I had this when I was a kid to show my parents...
me n all my daughters have been goths or still are and we aint weird ,lol
i can speak for myself in saying that most of that was true, except for the thing about not using drugs..all the actual goths i know are big potheads/cokeheads like me.unfortunately this article doesnt describe the difference between goths and emo kids... most ignorant people call emo kids goths and it makes me want to attack them viciously and without mercy for theyre stupidity.
I am so ganna make my mom read this lol,
She always freeks out when ever i say do or buy anything gothic. last night she saw my VR profile and said (im going off the deep end)...???...grumbles to self.
its about time people start to relize that we r not bad people i was wondering wen people would start to get some sence in there heads
hmm... very interesting news. i always hear people bashing Goths like they're these demon spawns or something. finally good news for all!
ther are some 'goths' that do give a bad reputation i do know alot of people who are put under that stereotype that are cokeheads. but this thread is really interesting, its good to hear something positive for a change.
Nice thread, interesting article, and like what comments I'm reading
about time us goths get some good publicity due to the fact that in my town the majority of the people are big in the churches hell i can't even wear my goth clothing to work thus have to buy a whole new wardrobe just for work
It is nice to see intelligent, respected people in the community look into the gothic subculture with an unbiased eye.
That's a well written article..i enjoyed reading it..i must send a copy to my father's e-mail..lol..though, i'm not Goth or anything..
wow thats awesome
finally some normally people in the news
is it possible that the world is becoming a better place
Wow, an accurate article for once. That was impressing.
to the guy who claims there is no goth society....find a clue....most of the other darker subcultures formed out of the earlier gothic community which in itself was a branching off from early brit punk
this is quite well documented
for the rest of you...I agree this is a great article...i'll have to look into it more
Wow something that was actually not an attack! That is great to see for a change. Thanks for posting it.
thanks for all the posts and the thank yous, i thought you guys and gals would love it!
There are many articles in net but gothics have to dicide what they are..
i like it when goths are on the news
im glad to see someone did some proper research for a change
Finally, a youth sub-culture is getting the recognition it deserves, since it do play an important part shaping culture around us.
It's very goos to see that that there're not just negative portrations of goths in the mdia.
This article made me proud of the fact that I'm going to Uni of Susx for media and cultural studies this fall. Actually looking forward to it now... ^^
who says it is was a youth subculture...i know...50 yr olds who dress the way a common "goth" does...personally i don't like that name and i refuse to take it. but hey that is just me...i have my reasons...debate anyone? lol...it is good that "goths" are being seen at all! usually they are invisible...but yes whatever! ~mieta~
I am glad someone sourced this article. I heard the end of it on the Rachel Maddow show on Air America.
I am kind of Gothy myself, but I really conisder myself a romantic.
So, there are people on our side? This is great news unlike the news I posted in the Vampire Children...Thread.
This is awesome Thank You so much, it is wonderful to know that we are getting a better reputation, now. *jumping up and down*
I'm of the gothic nature and i'm pleased that someone has the sence to find the true people beneath the stereo-type of goth! FINALLY!!!
hehe, this was a very interesting post. i am surprised that there was actually something about the gothic communtiy in the news. but at least it was positve! most people that thing of "goth" as something bad, or evil. and i dont plant to become a doctor or laywer, i wanna be a tattoo artist. hehehe. but i am glade you posted this, i really enjoyed reading it!
about time someone said something good about Goths and the goth lifestyle. Tired of all the bad press.
I am so glad to see an article like that. The term is something for the lack of a better word, and for the majority of those teens, it is a phase. Those that truly live that life are not bad kids. There are those that use the term "goth" just to get a reaction. I am glad to see an article out there in the news..Made me smile.
bout damn time someone published something positive about the goth subculture.
I hate labels and all but its abouttime people give the goths some good descriptions. But then it might lead for the goth scene to become trendy..-sigh- well its all good i guess..
i love this thread it was so refreshing to hear something good about our choice of lifestyle
This would show us as positive individuals that may end up to be powerful, well paid figures in society.
As a vampire, I find that my choice of dress that is finally getting good press as something the world can learn from.
who says gothic is a new subculter? Gothic is old, 60 or 50 years old. And people should respect gothic life style..
i thing vampire subculture is a part of gothic but vampiric culture older then gothic. These days vampires equal to gothic but gothic not equal vampire.
in time the tides will turn given assistance to the waves many are narrowminded as to what is "gothic" and what is not, smiply due to black clothing or darker music or makeup makes us no less a person then a suit and tie person of corperate status, we are much like everyone else we all have two arms and two legs and we all bleed red we simply walk a different path in life
For anyone wanting to follow up the article, if I remember correctly it was published in The Guardian newspaper a couple of weeks ago, the writer was a reformed(!) 80's Goth as I recall.
And a different point is punk style and gothic. What do u think about it?
Cool...though I hope they don't compare "us" to "punk"...that's just wrong...
Thank you for writing about the Goth community in such a positive light :)
It is nice to hear good news, but like i've said before many times, I don't like stereotypes. That's another subject for another time though.
thanks to lonefox i have managed to find the rest of the article
I have seen the future - and it's goth
We mocked their make-up and giggled over their gloom. But the goths are taking over the country. Dave Simpson reports
Tuesday March 21, 2006
The Guardian
It's every parent's nightmare. Their apparently well-adjusted child suddenly comes home with hair the colour of a coalface, a face whiter than anything made by Dulux, and announces, "Mummy, I'm a goth." However, according to a new study, parents of goths will probably end up boasting about their son/daughter the doctor, lawyer or bank manager.
That is the surprising finding of Sussex University's Dunja Brill, whose doctorate in media and cultural studies looked at people with funny hair and eyeliner in London, Brighton and Cologne, and who is herself a former goth.
Most youth subcultures encourage people to drop out of school and do illegal things," she says. "Most goths are well educated, however. They hardly ever drop out and are often the best pupils. The subculture encourages interest in classical education, especially the arts. I'd say goths are more likely to make careers in web design, computer programming ... even journalism."
Perhaps she has a point. Long before finding gainful employment at the Guardian, I too was a goth. For at least six months in the 80s, I reached for the hair crimpers, painted my bedroom black and scrawled the name of gothy band the Birthday Party on the door so it looked like blood. Hours were spent adopting the requisite air of mysterious gloom, reading (um) the spines of Dostoevsky novels, and gazing forlornly at spots. However, similar experiences can be found among people in much more respectable professions.
Visitors to the Archangel dental surgery in west London are confronted by a goth dentist, Didier Goalard, who says: "I've got goth friends who are doing quite well. There's a dentist in Lyon, a couple of solicitors, a Church of England priest."
"Goths are like masons," I have been told. "They're everywhere." But rather than blaming some sinister conspiracy, let us look at the reasons people become goths in the first place. According to Choque Hosein, formerly of goth band Salvation but now running a record label, "Goths tend to be the weirdo intellectual kids who have started to view the world differently." Cathi Unsworth is now a successful author, but she remembers that her own dark gothic past gave her an outlet for alienation. "I loved the bands, especially Siouxsie and the Banshees, but it wasn't a pose - I felt authentically depressed," she says. Unsworth was a teenager in Great Yarmouth, where she felt that "people didn't like me. It got to a point where I wanted to stop fighting against being different and embrace it."
Gillian Porter is now a successful PR but remembers a misspent youth of "electric-blue hair extensions, big boots with great big skulls, more crimped hair than Pete Burns. Totally and utterly ridiculous." Porter wasn't depressed, although she concedes that, "Listening to a lot of Sisters of Mercy doesn't exactly cheer you up."
Unsworth favoured a "black polo neck jumper and full-length skirt, for which she would be "spat on by the beer boys".
It could be tough, but being a goth can open up a world where art, current affairs and literature are embraced and openly discussed, perhaps paving the way for future networking. Unsworth remembers debates about "current affairs, Oscar Wilde, decadence, hairspray ..." "There was a lot of Edgar Allan Poe and Bram Stoker," remembers Porter. "It was better than the Sun." For Hosein, it was Quentin Crisp and "The Day of the Triffids. Anything involving horror and death."
Some took the whole thing very far. Hosein once lived in Headingley, Leeds; he remembers that students would enrol at Leeds university specifically because the town housed gothic kingpins (and his neighbours) the Sisters of Mercy. One night, Hosein saw a fog descending over the area and commented that lead singer Andrew Eldritch was around - then looked up to see him entering his doorway.
Indeed, there is a certain dry humour about goth that is often overlooked amid tales of black-clad youths worshipping Satan and, in one case, carrying out the Columbine massacre. "That wasn't goths," insists Brill. "The guys who did it always wore black trench coats but they listened to Marilyn Manson. There's an academic article: Why Marilyn Manson Isn't Goth." Brill insists that goth is a non-violent subculture. "They're like hippies. I don't know any goths who are into graveyard destruction or cat slaughtering. They like their graveyards and they love their cats."
Nor do drugs seem to be much of a problem. "Speed is a goth drug because the ideal is to be skinny," says Unsworth. "But for most of us it was Blue Nun wine because Wayne Hussey from the Mission drank it."
So perhaps parents shouldn't be too worried that a new generation of goths is cropping up again. There's a goth couple on Coronation Street. Hosein's bands include Black Wire, who wear black eyeliner, winklepickers and sound a lot like the Sisters of Mercy, although they had never heard them until they started rifling through his record collection. For some goths - who run T-shirt businesses or enterprises such as Whitby's biannual Gothic festival - goth can become a livelihood as well as a way of life. But most simply drop back into the mainstream.
Louise (she prefers not to give her surname) works in credit risk in Leeds. Aged 34, she got into goth music 17 years ago and now has tickets for the upcoming Sisters of Mercy tour. She reckons about "four or five people" at her workplace are former goths. "There's a kind of gaydar that lets you spot them." Goalard the dentist is now 39 but refuses to wear the white smock, preferring to top his boots with a black uniform. Faithful to the last, he plays Nine Inch Nails and Killing Joke songs as he drills.
"It never entirely leaves you," says Unsworth. "I still look at the world of beer boys and Tories and feel a beating heart of darkness."
As for Porter, she's just undergone "flashbacks" visiting Gothic Nightmares, Tate Britain's study of the supernatural themes in the work of Henry Fuseli and William Blake. However, this goth-turned-PR-woman is adamant that as goths grow up, they are advised to modify the look.
"I see them now in Camden where I live and think 'Fine in your twenties. But when you're 30? Sorry - you look like a twat"
Is your boss a goth? 10 telltale signs
1 Drinks snakebite
Former or closet goths still display a lingering thirst for snakebite - half a pint of lager with half a pint of cider, sometimes with blackcurrant. Snakebite is the worst thing the goths ever did after their invasion of the Roman Empire in 267.
2 Penchant for eyeliner
It seems everybody's wearing eyeliner these days, but a goth's make-up is a smidgen more extreme: the skin is powdered white, and black eyeliner is used on eyes, brows, lips and sometimes - to draw cobwebs, probably - the skin. NB: goths do not use bronzer, rouge, or St Tropez self-tan.
3 Cape
Capes have been fashionable this winter, but don't let that confuse you. A goth wears a cape so long it grazes the floor. Looks a little incongruous over a business suit.
4 Went to Leeds university
Strangely, Leeds has a nigh-on magnetic attraction for goths, and there are more cape shops per capita in the city than anywhere else in Europe.
5 Whistles Fields of the Nephilim/ Sisters of Mercy/ March Violets/ Subway to Sally songs
This is why no goth ever had a successful career as a milkman.
6 Strange hobbies
Many of your colleagues will spend the weekend at B&Q, drinking Lambrusco and playing five-a-side. Not goths. They read preposterous fantasy books, do a spot of Wicca and anything "a bit medieval".
7 Black clothing
Though both wore a lot of black, it is easy to differentiate between the goth and the 80s throwback by asking this simple question: can you imagine this outfit in a Robert Palmer video? The goth's predilection for black clothing is a reflection of the Black Aesthetic - taking those things society regards as evil or wrong and making them beautiful. Many items in the longtime goth's wardrobe may now have faded to a sort of charcoal shade.
8 Disturbing dancing at Christmas party
The goth sticks rigidly to the routine of two and a half steps to the front and back again, while gazing at the floor in an affected fashion and waving hands around mysteriously.
9 Disarmingly pointy boots
It is a little-known fact that inside their shoes, goths' feet are just as pointy as their winklepickers.
10 Drives a hearse to work And doesn't work at a funeral parlour.
Laura Barton
um, i would have to say ty to the person who did this report. and it is true 'goths' are more sucessful bc/ the everyday narrow-minded ppl of society leave us alone. or atleast in my case. so it gives us more time to do our thing and not worry about other things or other ppl in general
thtas cool that someone is stickin up for pple like us well im not goth its too much effort for me to wake up and do all my make up and what not bu i do love the scene and like the same stuff
haha! you know what? I read this article in the local paper (yes, a Norwegian local paper!) the other day! I'm kind of mixed feelings with this article since I myself, is classified as a goth. i won't deny that most of the things it says are true for most goths...but then again all humans could be classified in just the same way etc. "if you dress like this or that, or listen to this or that, or read this or that you are most probably like this or that"
Simply, what I'm trying to say is that if you bother to research on a certain type of people of course you'll discover similarities..but yet each and everyone of them are uniqe and induvidual no matter what..(and btw..people classified as "normal" are usually relly dull to be around...at least that's my opinion.haha!)
I read something about this on the bbc web page which included the fact that most goths tend to remain goths even into adulthood. Had to mail it to my mom as she has been waiting for me to grow out of this "phase" for decades. lol
i'm not really a goth. my best friend calls me goth day off.
I will admit, this is definitely a good article. Awesome job on the find.
Good Article.
I have never considered myself a Goth, but I like them. I am more of a hippie. Goth was sort of "after" my generation honestly.
I have always found the Goth youths to be engaging and enterprising really. I am glad they are getting some good press.
i have just found a fair few articles on goths on the bbc site
http://search.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/search/results.pl?tab=allbbc&go=homepage&q=goth
thats awesome..and true!
Thank youfor sharing that article with us..and for the links
This is for MistressD:
goths have been called youngins because they engage in "childish" things. and yet they are called immature when most of them understand more things that an everyday person can. and like i said in my last post, the everyday person usually is narrow minded. i got my mother to understand me more when she found out i was wiccan. i told her and she's a true southern baptist, but the whole thing is, we also have a native american bg so i told her about that. she now understands me more and wants to take the time to understand. this article can help some ppl that actually read it.
back to the youngins, it's only b/c we have a childish fase and will be out of it sooner or later, but some don't. they don't like to think on things they don't understand
Bravo ... loves the article .. and I totally agree... thank you for sharing that !
i find what you say is very ineresting in more ways then one considering the fact that i am goth, not as in religion, but as in clothing and the way i think... gothic is a state of mind to me... thank u for sharing this definition lol
gothicgurl i do agree it is party a state of mind. but i find it hard to atriculate why
thanks. its DEFINITY something my whole family needs to read
yes i think that i should send this to my father lol he's being an *ss because he says its a stage i am gonna grow out of... wich really p*sses me off
I find it interesting how many goths are making the new today. it shows that gothic culture is rising :)
silentblackrose, i totaly agree with you and i am rather happy that they are starting to come out because i was begining to feel all alone lol
Keltisches auf Goth´sch
Thüringische Landeszeitung (Abonnement) - 19. März 2006
Gotha. (tlz/wifi) Der St. Patrick´s Day, eine Art Nationalfeiertag in Irland, erlebte nun auch in Gotha seine Premiere. Irisches ist in. ...
NEUE SCHALLPLATTEN
Berliner Zeitung - 28. März 2006
... Auf der zeitgleich erschienenen EP "Too Old, Too Cold" wird sogar "Love in a Void" gecovert, ein Stück der alten Goth-Band Siouxsie and the Banshees - im ...
Buga und Rechtsfragen Kernthemen
Ostthüringer Zeitung (Abonnement) - 26. März 2006
... langjährige engagierte Vereinsarbeit mit der silbernen Ehrennadel des Landesverbandes ausgezeichnet wurden, überreicht durch Landesvorsitzenden Raimund Goth. ...
Matchbook Romance: Emo war gestern
Merkur Online - 17. März 2006
... Während ein nicht unerheblicher Teil verwandt klingender Bands immer deutlicher in Richtung der gerade ziemlich erfolgreichen Goth-Ästhetik schielt, haben ...
Nu Pagadi: von wegen Kuschel-Truppe!
woodZ - 21. März 2006
... Damit machen sich Goth Pop-Revoluzzer gegenüber all den "Popstars"-Bands lächerlich, die sie eigentlich übertrumpfen wollten: Ob No Angels, Bro'Sis ...
Caritas braucht neue Zivis
Neue OZ Online - 19. März 2006
... Für persönliche Beratungsgespräche steht die Leiterin der Verwaltungsstelle Zivildienst, Petra Goth, zur Verfügung: Caritasverband für die Diözese ...
Vampire in moderner Verpackung
Berliner Morgenpost - 1. März 2006
... Vampirfilme war. Die durchgestylte Goth-Ästhetik der "Underworld"-Serie kann einen für die Dauer der Filme in ihren Bann schlagen. Aber ...
Oomph!: Band übt Kritik an Medien-Zensur
Laut - 6. März 2006
... auflaufen. RTL lud die Band wegen ihrer aktuellen Single "Gott Ist Ein Popstar" aus. Die Goth-Rocker fühlen sich zensiert. Berlin ...
Fast alles in blau und schwarz
Neuß-Grevenbroicher Zeitung - 3. März 2006
... Len Wiseman, ihr Ehemann, macht daraus über weite Strecken das, was er am besten kann: ein Musik-Video (zumindest visuell - der dazu passende Goth-Metal fehlt ...
50 Tage lang keine Fleischprodukte essen Umfrage - Auf was ...
Rhein Main Presse - 7. März 2006
... "Ich wüsste nicht, auf was ich verzichten sollte". Sina Goth (17 Jahre) findet es hingegen schade, dass nicht alle Christen den Regeln ihres Glaubens folgen. ...
Der Samstag des Jahres
Westdeutsche Allgemeine Zeitung (Abonnement) - 10. März 2006
... Vera Vollhase, Michaela Güthling, Ilka Goth, Maximilian Speicher, Maik Ostermann und Reinhard Plog wollen es den Karlsruhern zeigen. ...
Schwarz ist die Nacht
Tages-Anzeiger Online - 3. März 2006
... Da passt es auch, dass er sein Erfolgsduo mit Arnaud Rebotini «Black Strobe» nennt, und ihren Electro-Noir «Dark Side of Disco» oder «Soft-Goth». ...
Actually most of the "goths" today are only fashion goths... those of us who truely belong to our genre konw that clothes do not make the freaks
It is great to see the goth subculture taken in a positive light by the media!
We are not insane, plotting to kill you all, or kill ourselves, et al ....
Wow that is really scarry when you think that who ever wrote this is right, we are like that.
hopefully that will make people understand goths are not bad people!!!im very impressed with all that i read but i think its very true ...lol!!Goths Rule!
yes we do lol but goth is a state of mind like i said before and well they way we dress and think is what makes us different and also excluded from society
That is great! People usually just think that goths are freaks and that they worship the devil, when they just have different beliefs and differents ways of thinking, then other people have. People are just afraid of what they don't understand and what they don't know.
Manslayer is very right, i know many people who sit there in the latest sliptknot t-shirt and jeans and then run around proclaiming "loookie me im a goth!" if i tried to talk to them about things that intersest me then they would think... FREAK
WOOHOO! I fit that... I have dreams of being a doctor, architect, CSI or something ambitious like that... I also believe in love and have a dark sense of humor.... I need to show this to my dad... where did you get it?
my mothers friend gave the newspapper clipping to her saying i should read it.
What a nice article! I hope parents read it and it helps to adjust their mindsets about their child's lifestyle. I wish more parents would take the approach that my mom took to my slightly goth-ish tendancies back in high school. Her friends or coworkers would be scandalized by my appearance but she took the stance of, "It's just hair dye. It's just a few piercings that can heal over anyway. It's just different clothing. She gets good grades and stays out of trouble so I really shouldn't complain." But my mom was a bit of a bad girl in her day so I think she was just grateful for not having to go through what her parents went through. ;)
im glad it got this kind of press which means no one will think we r up to no good even if we were
We actually have more to fear from postal workers than from Goths ! :)
Dylan Klebold wore a trenchcoat. You're never going to recover from bad PR like that.
i agree w/ manslayer..most don't see the personality..as most are different who settle for the same...i think "goth'' is a fashion statement above all