I think its a coincidence, of course I didn't see it either.
I think it is just a coincidence...but I would love to see it for myself
I think it is a coincidence, But I would like to know a lot more details and I'd love to visit it and see it
...What the heck was Jesus doing on the ceiling?
...even if he's the son of god he has no business going into people's houses and messing about on their ceilings...
|
birra Venerable Sire (132) Posts: 463 Honor: 0 [ Give / Take ] |
Ut oh.. oil, seeping from the walls?
Don't let George see that.. we'll be invading Australia next...
I think it will eventually be solved scientifically and had nothing to do with the boy it did take 40 days to happen things like that they say usually happen within 3 days of a death and as far as the healing goes you make real what you believe
Hmmm..Interesting but science cant explain everything. Id like to see it for myself. A "miracle" doesnt necessarily have to happen in 3 days, but its hard to say unless you see it for yourself if its fact or fiction, miracle or non miracle....
lol. leave it to birra to post the impeccably funny.
i would have to see the 'miracle' myself to consider it something worth having faith in.
Hmmm...quite an interesting topic here but it must have to be a coincidence.....if i saw it for myself then i might change my mind about it.....
wow. thats all i can say. wow.
the oil could be anything. and the fact that it heals could be because our minds are powerful (the thread about human mind power making spirits appear ties into this one i think) if you are ill and u believe with every fiber of ur being some holy oil will heal u... then u might be healed. well not healed but the pain will stop. Mind over matter.
Has the church investigated this?
this is a bit hard to beleive but anything is possible , as for a sighn of god highly unlikely
With all the crap going on in the world, I don't think God or whatever is out there. Has the time to be doing "miracles" here.
When I first read this Weffie, I thought you meant crude oil?? its only after a while I began to realise that it could be incense oil?
My immediate thoughts if it were crude oil and ash, were of hellish thoughts rather than heavenly ones! I don't really understand these manifestions as there never seems to be any logical reason for them..
Oh dear... Birra, you never cease to make me laugh :)
As far as this goes, I'll take it with a grain of salt. I'm not one for "miracles" and whatnot, especailly oil seeping through walls. Sounds more like a hazard than anything else.
sounds like something straight out of the twilight zone..but,it's something i'd have to wittness for myself.stranger things have happened..mind over matter
Crying walls, and ashes on the floor, pretty weird. I would like to go see that, and take someone sick see if they really get healed.
interesting
i've never witnessed any of these miracles that make people believe and strengthen the faith of others. i've wondered what it would do to me if i were to see one.
i'm calling it coincidence for now, but that doesn't mean coincidences are worthless or don't mean anything.
if something strengthens someone else's beliefs or helps them in other ways, then i'm glad they are able to have faith :)
I'm always profoundly curious as to why messengers of god or prophets in general always seem to die before we 'get the message'...
seems counterproductive.
I would have to say it’s a coincidence. What I find interesting is that they say,
"All we need is for people to come here to light candles at the church for Mike, nothing else, or to pray, we don't need anything."
Isn’t that sacrilegious? Doesn’t God command that, “Thou shalt raise no false idols before me.” Forgive me if it’s not word for word as I don’t have a bible before me as I type this.
ok that's a GOOD point
i never thought about that
i guess people have faith about that because Jesus was pretty much unaccepted during his life time
so maybe they believe that today it's their death that is the message or that we miss these messages while they are alive...
although that doesn't really fit with me, because Jesus wasn't exactly subtle about things and i don't see how just dying is a message.
i agree with you though it does seem counter productive
:LOL: Felix it is just like most artists they are never famous until after they die...
There is no doubt that this occurence is miraculous, though if it is caused by the Christian God or through some other paranormal activity, I can't say for certain.
Very cool read thanks for posting...
I think it could happen maybe a sign....
I would have to agree... More information would be good, but there are a 1000 things it COULD be.....
id like to see it for myself but also have many questions concerning it, do the parents still live in the house? if not why are there hours to visit? do they have to take the spare time to put the oil and ash around the old house themselves? more then likely coincidence
I would like many answers as well to some of the questions posted above me about the boys life.
bathory, you made a good point about it taking 40 days when it usually takes about 3 after a death, however, in catholicism 40 days is very important. 40 days and 40 nights in the desert. 40 days for passover. 40 is very significant religiously.
Where did this article come from is there more info?
I adore stories like this.. y'know there has been many occassions that "things" out of this world has been seen, like for instance when I first read about stigmata I was truly amazed ..
i've seen some pretty wierd stuff, but i've also had a chance to look "behind the scenes", as it were, and most (all but 2) have been explainable
i am by education and occupation a man of practical sciences, but my beliefs extend way beyond what i can see, feel or explain; i am a believer, not a skeptic, by heart
I would like to see this first hand.
Ive never been much of one for coincedence but the activity itself, is of such size that it must be investigated without giggles behind the back...
I would also like to know more about the boy before I mada any specualtions on this. I would also have to see it for myself.
it maybe a coincidence, but it would be good to find out for sure, shame i live in england,
For those who want the actual articles:
http://www.parramattasun.com.au/2007/04/is_it_a_miracle_1.php
http://www.parramattasun.com.au/2007/04/weeping_walls_a_mystery.php
http://au.todaytonight.yahoo.com/article/38725/lifestyle/house-miracles
Sorry that you're going to have to copy and paste.
The power of the mind can be a powerful thing, maybe it's the parents causing this phenomenon to happen. They are describe as very religious, and I'm sure very grief stricten by the death of there son. Maybe there causing it without knowing it. Who really knows.
I am sorry to say but I have seen or read to many of these supose to be act of god or smiliarities to many times so I do not beleive as so fare all have been proove to be fack lies and oax and made up by the ppl living there osrry ot be rude but like they say a wet cat is a cat that dont run to water
i dont no it seems like a coincidence but it isnt the only place something like this has happened! in york in england the tale of cliffords tower is similar to this only it was used as a form of mass murder soem one cant remeber his name led lots of jewish people to the tower telling them they would be safe! and then he locked them in and set it on fire! and now years later there are still stains apearing on the walls people say it is teh blood of teh innocent people who wehre murdered up there! and will be there forever more to serve as a reminder of the terrible crime that was commited!
Thanks AngelPie for the links..you are a gem, and I have lots of bedtime reading now1 :)
Well I don't necessarily believe its a sign from God- but I don't think its a coincidence either
It might be a sham, it might be a coincidence, there's no way to tell from that far off.
And no, I don't believe in miracles.
Those who believe might find relief, though. That this sort of mentally self-induced positive feedback works can be proven with scientific methods.
I am sure science could find a valid reason for the "weeping wall". There is not enough data in the article to even seriously try, sorry.
But the main problem is two-fold.
This could simply be a case of Synchronicity.
When you look at it the article states that the boys art and what appeared on his walls after his death are very similar.
In my personal opinion this is a matter of the collective unconsious. Meaningful coincidences happen all the time, usually when we need them the most.
"Synchronistic events provide an immediate religious experience as a direct encounter with the compensatory patterning of events in nature as a whole,both inwardly and outwardly."
Carl Jung is a good reference is anyone is interesting in learnign more...
Faith is faith, and whatever makes your belief stronger, so be it. I truly believe miracles that heal people really is mind over matter. Our brains are capable of much more than we give ourselves credit for. As far as it being a sign from God, whatever floats your boat. If this gives his parents peace over the death of their son, bless them. No parent should ever have to suffer such a tradgedy.
If they want to believe it's god... fine... maybe they're right... It's certainly true for them. For me though, it'd be bullshit. But that's just my opinion.
I do not not think it is a sign from god. But perhaps a way for those that have passed in this story to comfort thier family. Or even a manafestion of mind over matter. These families have so much faith in thier "god" and that could be the cause of these things happening. One can never really know.
I'd see it for myself before making any conlusions. I mean, miracles are possible, but oil? why oil? Maybe they should get a little mroe science in on this before making any conlusions...
I don't know what I really think or believe on this matter, but right there is a show of collective minds all believing the same thing, giving it tangible power and energy. I think it could very well be real, but from god in the sense people seem to mean, I don't believe that. People will see what they need to see and interpret it as they need to interpret it. If all these people have gone there and checked it out, I doubt it's something from the attic, it's probably been checked. People give power to that which they believe though. It looks like not only did the parents believe and all these people coming , but the boy himself.
I'm not sure. Like others I'd like to see it. I,too, would like more info on the family and the son. It would be interesting to see. Something to ponder......
If they wish to believe it as a miracle, sobeit. Personally I believe there is another explanation to why oil is seeping throo the walls and why ash appears to fall from the air. Sometimes I wonder if it is all rigged up to seem miraculous.
I agree with the people saying it's mind over matter, I can bet they find a scientific explaination for it all, things like this almost always come out as being fake
would be interesting... wonder if it works well in a car.... miracle motor oil....
I cant think of any way this could be explained scientifically... which is fine because I'm not a scientist. It is amazing though.
SinginGhost88 brought up what should be an obvious question in miracles of this nature but that is often overlooked by the believers and pilgrims to these sites...
Why oil?
We have taken a situation that (barring it's strangeness), doesn't seem to relate to the child at all. Did he really like oil? Was the family always short of oil? Did he have really oily skin? Ok I'm getting sarcastic but the point is that they've taken the first odd thing to happen in the house as a sign of his message beyond the grave. I'm afraid that it's hope combined with overwhelming grief that brought about this 'miracle' and perhaps, if this is truly unexplainable, the parents are psychically creating the oil out of their own grief.
And even if the child is responsible, what the hell kind of message is oil anyway? Somehow they've taken that to mean that we should all pray for him as though oil in the international symbol for "pray for me".
At least the handprint on the jail wall in Jim Thorpe, Pennsylvania, there was a message and a reason for the strange phenomenon.
Maybe the kid's just trying to be helpful. I mean with gas prices going up and all.
Sorry. ;->
well my take on this is the it may have just been coincedence or it could have also been someones mind playing tricks on them who knows. I would have to see it for myself to believe it really happened.
people are going to believe what they want to believe and that's what makes it so Miraculous.
Hmmm..Interesting but science cant explain everything. Id like to see it for myself. A "miracle" doesnt necessarily have to happen in 3 days, but its hard to say unless you see it for yourself if its fact or fiction, miracle or non miracle....
wow. thats all i can say. wow.
the oil could be anything. and the fact that it heals could be because our minds are powerful (the thread about human mind power making spirits appear ties into this one i think) if you are ill and u believe with every fiber of ur being some holy oil will heal u... then u might be healed. well not healed but the pain will stop. Mind over matter.
Has the church investigated this?
Well it's not just "oil" according to the people that have been there...It's healing oil...I think it's nonsence none the less, lol
this is fantastic but i think it is all a coinicidence
I would like some proff that it isnt a hoax.
arent there ppl that do that for a living
... me too, I decided not to listen. ;-)
Earnestly, those guys debunking hoaxes (is that th correct plural?) are scientist.
What did you expect, the pope walking up to wall and declaring "It's a true miracle I dreamt it last night."
I think its bullshit.
This falls in the Same section as "I saw Jesus's face on my hamburger"
The words running through my mind is the same as the covers of World News and its knock offs with assuming headlines (George Bush shot down Angel on White House Lawn and Vampires in Afghanistan Mountains killing US troops) - those words in my head "SMOKING HIGH QUALITY FUCKING WEED"
Wow, that's really interesting - thanks for posting.
Me, I think it's probably just a coincidence, though.
As open as I am to most situations this just isnt something im not open to. i think that perhaps its a coicidence.
There is still alot of gaps in this for I have plenty of questions. Perhaps i may try to go and see if its true for myself.
Seems to me that most are throwing around the word coincidence like it is just a way to discredit something, but a coincidence in itself can carry a lot of meaning- as a wrote in my first post which I am convinced no one read or took the time to ponder.
i dont believe in coincidences, and I agree with Drow..(as usual) lol its bs
I wasn't there to see it but to much happened to be a coincidence. I just don't believe the source was god.
Very interesting , and I think miracles can happen . I would like to witness it.
I would be mad if that happened to my house
"Damn you god, another mess to clean up."
most of these kind of occurrences are proven to be hoazes down the road
hmmmmm another religous happening...... i am skeptical as most have said it is just to far fetched to believe it has anything to do with the boy or god and who said they saw jesus on one of the celings????? a person visiting the home perhaps..... like someone already said it will probably be scientificly proven a hoax in time.......iam not saying it might not be true but come on its all in what you want to believe or not........if you believe and get something out of it great and if it helps you in the morning process of your son then great .... but scientifically theres gotta be an explenation for it and it might not be what there hopeing for............it was a very interesting and great read weffie thanks........
To me hearing about this incident it just made me think, when miracles do come how far and how long does it take for them to die out?
I believe in God. In fact my religion is a big part of my life. But I also believe in ghost and other things of that nature. I know this may sound sick and even stupid but I have this theory about the afterlife and things that go unexplained: It is simple, I believe that someone or something is messing with us. A just for kick kind of thing. I mean if I were a ghost and I could do what I wanted, of course I would mess with people.
I too wonder how long it will take for a miracle that has supposedly occured to end or die out and cease
An interesting concept:
Is a miracle a one-time occurence? Or only "active" for a specific number of times?
does it need a trigger to activate? And another to cease?
And if we can descibe something in that set of parameters, is it a miracle at all?
I personally, believe it is all a strange coincidence....but in case I am wrong, if I were to use this oil in my vehicle, would it reduce the viscocity of my engine, helping my vehicle to last longer? Does it come in 10w40 or sae30? Are there any detergent additives? The consumer must know AND can we purchase larger quantities because I don't think that ONE cotton bud of this stuff will help me out at all :)
the mind is a powerful tool in a greaving time it can be very powerful , when things happen that we dont understand we run to the mystic or to God, we always seem to have to reason things out
its interesting, but some parts of it just don't make sense. But in life very few things do. Nothing is impossible so it could possibly be a miracle or it could be just a coincidence not really sure.
I personally don't believe in "God" miracles. I'm one of those who would like to see it for myself before making a decision.
Jesus on the ceiling? that sounds like the type of thing with jesus on a corn chip or burnt toast. It heals people?? Oh come on! mind over matter people, I can heal your tooth ache by busting a frying pan over your head...you won't feel nothing after that. Although it's too weird to be a coincidence, if i were that family, I would be rich as hell if oil was seeping through my walls. I have got to see it for myself.
I believe in miracles, but i find it interesting that the visiting hours are stated as "Firm". I understand people have lives, but it conjures up images of the family closing the doors and curtains and setting up an elaborate rig to drip oil at the appropriate moments.
Or maybe I've been watching too much Scooby Doo :)
I guess it would depend on your beliefs... I do believe that when bad things happen it leaves a permanent imprint in our reality
Everything is connected, we only have to be open to seeing it.
As stated above, for some peoples beliefs. If they believe in this so strongly then for them it is miraculous or even devine in there eyes
I would have to see it for myself its a thing of i wont believe it till i see it. but there have been other miracles that have happened through out history. it may be true and if so send me some oil. lol. anything could be possible i am sorry for the family that endured there loss. maybe this is a way of there son saying mom dad i am ok i will be fine. only time will tell i guess.
I believe I have read this before and it always interested me. I have always believed in the power of the mind. If you believe something enough you can make it happen. Anyone with a strong religious belief could make themselves well, if they believe strong enough.
I think that those people want to believe that it is a miracle and just that faith might even be strong enough to make them feel better or make them feel healed. The power of the mind is the real miracle here, not oily walls and dirty floors.
It sounds like something from the amityville horror without blood. I don't know what to believe i beleive in miracles but you never know my stepmom would be there in a heart beat if she knew about it.
Its nice to be open or stick to your bliefs, but i was raised completely different so well to me most things that happen with god, i just begin thinking that well theres usually is a limit when it comes to his miracles. But thats just me.