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Bloodmother
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22:59:37 Nov 05 2007
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I’m referring to fictional vampires.

Vampires have historically been considered evil, and were blamed for many little understood situations in the cultures that spawned them.

But fictionally they are currently not considered 100% bad.

Have our notions of evil changed in modern times?

What is the difference between the ancient concept of Evil and the modern one?

What is the connection between those views and the modern fictional vampire who is almost indistinguishable from a human?




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Carvall
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23:18:16 Nov 05 2007
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Put 'evil' in smart clothes, beautiful body etc and suddenly it does'nt seem too bad.

Perhaps this is because as a society, body image is all important.

I don't think in a real sense evil has ever changed...views on damnation etc have, as generally people have moved away from the 'fear' factor of worship.



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Pantervamp
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23:31:44 Nov 05 2007
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well vampires is for sure nothing good to just anyone. I avoid to deeper that statement. It dosent matter if it is fiction or real or myth or whatever vampires may be.



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MOONLITDREAM
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23:39:43 Nov 05 2007
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i think that vampires do not seem evil that much anymore because of the movies and books makeing them seem good or showing them in a good light



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BLOODLIFE
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23:41:32 Nov 05 2007
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I think a great deal has to do with the way media interprets things and feeds us what we want to hear.

Writers do the same to an extent......Anne Rice is a great one for that. She brings romance and love into the frame and get you to know her style of vampire. Clever concept, we all root for the bad guy. lol



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Bloodmother
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23:42:49 Nov 05 2007
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Good point Carvall, re. body image. one I hadn't considered. Modern society worships at the font of body image: thin and cut (as in low body fat so the muscles are defined).

Money and technology play into the modern concept, too, although Dracula had enuf bucks for a tux and a boat ride to London.

Pantervamp --- are you saying that Vamps are evil, and that has not changed?



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Pantervamp
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23:51:04 Nov 05 2007
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well as i see it. hollywood have created a picture of vampires as something pretty and in many ways also fashinating. The problem is many buying that fiction and then base his/hers belivings on that. If i think vampires are evil? well that depends on what the person that may encounter a vampire see as evil i think. But i cant see anything good in to drinking blood from someone else. That is for sure more evil if we talks in the terms of evil and good.



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AngelOfInsanity
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00:09:03 Nov 06 2007
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well if that's the case, what about humsns slaughtering animals for food? that's hust as bad. we kill to survive, and so do they. its just evil, because humans are at the top of the food chain. we're not supposed to be food



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Bloodmother
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00:21:30 Nov 06 2007
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This is a broad stroke, but generally the old stories like Dracula and Carmilla pitted humans against the vampires --- light vs dark, humans saving humanity.

Modern fictional vampires are often at odds against other vampires, and themselves, in order to protect humans.

Both sides may have human allies (Renfields), but increasingly the conflict has become Olympian. Gods vs gods.



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Vashti
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00:31:42 Nov 06 2007
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I think a lot of it has to do with the way we view things in general. We used to see the world in black and white, either something was good or evil. Now we see a million shades of gray. There are 'good' people who do bad things, 'bad' people who do good things, and neutral people who don't do much of either.

We've also weakened the idea of 'evil' through overuse. There are vegetarians who call meat-eaters evil, kids who call their teachers evil, and the amount of people I've heard being compared to Hitler and Nazis is frankly mind-boggling. I heard someone get called a Nazi for telling someone they couldn't wear roller-blades into the movie theatre.

Society's ideals of good and evil have been so watered down that they don't really mean anything anymore. Even those who commit heinous acts are partially forgiven (and sometimes idolized). They blame their circumstances, their parents, their psychological problems, violence in the media, and just about anything else. Because of this, we've all become convinced that nothing is truly as evil or as good as it seems.

And the point about body image really is very good. The "Devil comes in a tempting form" (I'm paraphrasing, I don't have the exact quote but you get the drift). People like things that are pretty. No one likes the old-school hideous vampires or zombies ('likes' meaning, for example, wanting to be one). We prefer our undead (and regular) evil as attractive as possible.

And under no circumstance is killing a cow as bad as murdering a human being. That's just idiotic. If we're going to put animals at the same level as humans, we might as well add insects and plants to the mix too. the comparison is about equal. The fact that any thinking person could believe that, actually hurts my brain.



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Bloodmother
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00:44:33 Nov 06 2007
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"Shades of gray" in the modern view of evil is a good point, Vashti.

So if a society can't easily determine who is the bad guy, or feels powerless in some way, will it create superheroes?

Is the modern fictional vampire just another SpiderMan?



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Gaius
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00:52:18 Nov 06 2007
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I suppose that through legend the vampire could be being portrayed as the embodiment of evil. From what I know which is not a lot that has not changed.


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00:55:50 Nov 06 2007
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nowadays I think people consider anything that isn't "normal" evil



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Natriel
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03:26:31 Nov 06 2007
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From seeing how things work from a military perspective, the definition of evil has definately changed over the years. Some things that were considered evil, are now considered good, and vice versa. The "power" that evil had back then has changed today and doesn't seem to hold as much ground. The same goes for good as well. Fiction has tainted the minds of many from what everything used to be. I am running out of words to continue on right now, and i don't know why. I will gather my thoughts and return when I can add more. Carpe Noctem



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Bloodmother
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03:47:31 Nov 06 2007
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It's hard for me to wrap my mind around as well, Natriel.

Another broad stroke: It almost seems as if fictional vampires are evolving into martyr-like figures (Jesus?). Humans who are chosen and who struggle with dark urges, but who pursue a higher goal (to defeat the really, really bad vampires).

Superheroes fill a void in our world right now, but vampires are unique because of the blood sacrifice.



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ogazium
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04:48:01 Nov 06 2007
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I personally think the cinema FX of today's culture have surely watered down the true origin of vampyric history. One of the main influences on today's view of vampires is, of course, nothing but typical folklore. I dont believe they were "evil". We all know that "evil" was a common term to describe something society back then could not understand.



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queenofdarkness73
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06:51:45 Nov 06 2007
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I have to compair vampire's to animals. Does anybody consider an animal killing another animal for food evil? Why would anybody consider a vampire that kills another for food evil. I mean if its ok for one animal to kill another why not a vampire.



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Bloodmother
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07:17:39 Nov 06 2007
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Animals kill as much as they need to eat.

Vampires are typically portrayed as serial killers, terrorizing their victims, even taunting them, not necessarily for the food.

And then there's the sexual element.



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papilion
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07:32:32 Nov 06 2007
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everything oreverybody who does bad to humanity or living being is evil .



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bettydavis
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07:56:00 Nov 06 2007
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Anne Rice is a great one for that. She brings romance and love into the frame and get you to know her style of vampire. Clever concept, we all root for the bad guy. lol



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DemianA
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08:53:21 Nov 06 2007
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Historic vampires have been associated with evil because they shun the light and embrace the darkness, are repulsed by the sign of the cross, and can be burned by water consecrated by a priest; these attributes are associated with those with no souls, the Damned. And the Damned are always evil because they have turned away from the Light of the Rightious, they are the comming of Darkness into the world.
Now, in the 21st century, vampires are no longer portrayed as the grotesque Nosferatu. Why? Because beautiful and erotic vampires are more like humans with a blood addiction. And vampire fiction, especially the "paranormal romance" genre is selling better than the more classic tales. Yes, some vampires are evil, but they are not the hero but the "bad guy" of the story.



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RaineVampire
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11:13:34 Nov 06 2007
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modern vampires are very much humanized, so you can find good and evil vampires because of our human nature...
of course if you're evil and a vampire, it's not that bad... lol...
i dont really know if vampires have been evil, i think that our behaviour is what people dont understand and that's the reason why they consider us evil... or bad...



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shadowfever
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11:25:43 Nov 06 2007
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Compared to the evil that men create in the world it is difficult for the fictional vampire to be the personification of evil that he once was.



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NocturnisOrchid
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14:32:52 Nov 06 2007
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Evil is what we make it yes? Everyone's idea of bad and good is different.And of course does change with the times..remember the Salem witch trials..now it is considered trendy to be a witch not evil.
The same for vampires and the like, it all depends on how one views vampires.Anne Rice has made us beautiful and erotic creatures, but with the underlying deadly and vicious nature.
I think what people view as outside of their norm ,will always be evil ,with paper and pen or in real life.



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Wolfscout
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14:47:51 Nov 06 2007
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shadowfever said "Compared to the evil that men create in the world it is difficult for the fictional vampire to be the personification of evil that he once was. "

Oh that is so true.
There would be no "evil" in the world if it was not for the choices that men make and place lables on things .



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Kryptick
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15:04:15 Nov 06 2007
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Vampires have moved from creatures of pain, evil, and torment to creatures of seduction. Who would want to be seduced by a monster? (ok, me, but that's besides the point)

I think everybody's a little attracted to danger, or evil, so people started writing books, making the vampire seductive...But also humanizing it so that it would be considered more "normal".



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allgenre
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15:46:03 Nov 06 2007
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Even in most fictional stories (or movies).. I have found that vampires were still "evil" or fighting their evil nature.

I dont think evil has changed of course.. but our perceptions of it has. We now have varying degrees of what we see as evil or vile.

Take the sicko who molests his daughter and gets 5 years in prison, 5 years probation... but gets out for good behavior after only serving 2 years. Many people have made the statement "at least he didnt kill his child". What he did was evil.. just not as evil as the person who goes further. Now, back in the olden days, he'd probably have been put to death.

Same concept with fictional vampires. You have one who fights his evil nature.. and has a "slip up" and kills someone in a blood thirsty feeding.. then cries about it and wants to amend his ways.. even though this had been his pattern for 200 years. We feel sympathy for this character and say he's not evil.. he's trying. He's really good at heart. Really, he's still evil, just a lessor degree of it. If he was good.. he'd roast himself in the morning sun and stop the killing permanently.



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LleananSidhe
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16:57:46 Nov 06 2007
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I think alot of what we base our opinion on is because of society.. Anne Rice for instance the beautiful , romantic, good natured Lestat Who fights being who he is... It makes us sympethetic. Instead of seeing the Evil we see the good.. Humans love the need to see good in everything, no matter how evil...



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cadrewolf
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17:41:34 Nov 06 2007
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media plays a big part in vampyres and evil, through books or movies. if you put the energier bunny in some of those stories he would be potrayed as pure evil. come on the tales handed dowwn and hollywoods fame to vampyres show the all evil. until recently did hollywood potray vampires as having emotions and fighting for what is right.



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LordRazr
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20:00:47 Nov 06 2007
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I feel alot of our views on this is from how the writers and movies of today protray the vampire and if it is evil or not.

Many writers make them out to be sexual and controling. plus you have those who do the oppisite. So I feel it is all in just what you read or watch that decides on how you feel or think that they truely are.



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Bloodmother
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21:11:49 Nov 06 2007
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Demian A: you hit some major points here.

At one time the gothic literature reading world was more Christianized, so those religious symbols could be used and were recognized. Now we have a global society where religious tolerance is encouraged, and the old symbols are not so universal. Modern vampires laugh at the crucifix and holy water.

Embracing the dark and turning away from the light: We have a 24 hour civilization now. Lots of people prefer the dark over the light, and they can work and live that way.

At a time when there wasn’t much diversity, people could unite against a common evil. It gave us hope that together we could overcome what frightened us.

Now, with the emphasis on the individual, the vampire represents our own internal struggles and we delight to see her overcome them. A different kind of hope, a more personal one.



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Bloodmother
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21:18:04 Nov 06 2007
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Shadowfever: Compared to the evil that men create in the world it is difficult for the fictional vampire to be the personification of evil that he once was.

People have created evil in our world from the beginning. I've read that the "vampire" was a sociopolitical construct used to channel the populace's fear in order to control them. Vampires and witches were the focal points.



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karnstein
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21:36:15 Nov 06 2007
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i think modern tastes have become sophisticated. there will always be some who like their monsters to be pure monsters - no motive other than to feed, no humanity, nothing we can relate to - just a terrifying unstoppable force. but most of us have grown tired of that. it's the same in science fiction - Klingons are no longer unfeeling, greedy expansionists with no morals - now they have a sense of honour, families, dreams and ambitions.

if it's just people versus monsters, it's too simple. you find a way to kill the monsters, end of. but now we can see their point of view, feel their pain, and are forced to ask ourselves "must we destroy that which is different? can we not co-exist?" a lesson we can carry with us into our everyday lives.



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EternalXRage
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21:43:24 Nov 06 2007
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Any evil can be dressed up to look "not so bad"



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MiakodaWolf
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22:49:54 Nov 06 2007
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While all forms of media have in fact romanticized the vampire, I think there's more to why our feelings have changed about just how "evil" a vampire is.
The horror and atrocities that are committed by humans each and every day, and the fact that they are far more publicized now than they ever were, are making vampires and other fictional "monsters" look way more human, and making humans look way more like the real "evil".



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prettykitty09
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22:59:59 Nov 06 2007
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i believe now a days evilis more welcomed and respected by those who choose. before most people were strictly religious and there wasnt too many religions to choose from...to day freedom of religion is stretched to the darker more evil religions as well. if there is good in this world and it is welcomed with open arms why not show evil the same respect?



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karnstein
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23:00:47 Nov 06 2007
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that has always been the case though. no fictional vampire has ever been as cruel as Torquemada or Gilles de Rais. perhaps we are beginning to realise there is no true ultimate evil, no demons - just different ideals. the so called monsters and demons of our nightmares are nothing more than scapegoats to blame for our own sins.



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Bloodmother
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03:17:19 Nov 07 2007
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Scapegoats yes, but the vampire endures with some modifications reflecting our current psyche. Cadrewolf and HollowXAngel mentioned the media.

Wonder if it's a chicken or egg riddle. Do the books and films spring out of the creative unconscious of a culture's current needs, fantasies and fears, or do they shape and inspire them?



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xPsychex
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04:44:11 Nov 07 2007
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Notions of evil change as our belief systems change. Only we can deem what is good and evil.
The vampire has changed over time to become more of a romantic figure because our views of evil have changed. They seem to have evolved to the point where they are almost like us with just that one dietary difference.



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Vashti
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05:12:24 Nov 07 2007
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I'm going to have to disagree with one of the previous posts. Historically, vampires were not considered evil because they shunned light and religious implements. They shunned light and religious implements because they were evil. And they were evil because they were soulless monsters which rose up from the grave and killed people. Killing people was (and is) considered a pretty evil thing to do.

One big thing I've noticed all through this thread, and in society in general, is the tendency to blame the circumstances. The logic seems to be that it's not so bad for vampires to kill humans, because they're hungry and need to eat. Now, if anything, that should make us hate them more, because they have to murder constantly in order to survive.

Of course, everyone has their own different views on what a 'real' (fictional) vampire is like. There are stories where vampires only need to 'sip' from different people and so don't need to kill them, and stories where vampires massacre victims wholesale from the pure enjoyment of it. People tend to pick the one they like best and base their beliefs off of that kind.

And of course, there are always the people who don't want to think of vampires as evil because they would sort of like to be one. Modern vampires are strong, sexy, and immortal. They are dangerous and powerful, and who wouldn't want to be that?

But no one really wants to be considered evil. No one wants to be a monster. No one wants to be a worthless, despicable, bane to society. So they rationalize the vampire's ethics and it's all okay again.



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Bloodmother
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06:28:13 Nov 07 2007
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Vashti: They are dangerous and powerful, and who wouldn't want to be that? But no one really wants to be considered evil. No one wants to be a monster. . .So they rationalize the vampire's ethics and it's all okay again.

Vashti, I read this and what came to mind were not legendary vampires, but those other kind --- the corporate CEO's, heads of state . . .

The media "kind of" blames them for their perfidy, but spends much more time examining the circumstances that led to their greed --- back to your statement about blaming the circumstances. So right on.


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LadyDiamond
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14:09:52 Nov 07 2007
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anyone who steals your soul or passes a curse is evil. how could they not be? they take your life and change it against your will.



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allgenre
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14:56:47 Nov 07 2007
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I have to seriously disagree that all vampires are soulless.



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shadowfever
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18:15:33 Nov 07 2007
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The concept of evil has certainly changed. And the question of who is truly the victim and who is the villain has changed as well, countless times. Two things in the history of movies have shown that more than any others; the way evil and the evil doer is perceived and the way the stories in westerns have been told. In both, political and philosophical changes have been demonstated using the story of evil or the western in an allegorical sense. History is constantly being rewritten and these two methods of presentation have been very dominate and sowing the seeds of the prevailing climate.



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6Hells6DragonLord6
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21:22:53 Nov 07 2007
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I belive that our concepts of what is evil has changed as more and more people open their eye's and see things for them selves and not how someone else wants them to...

as for the concepts of evil between acient times and now....we as a race lost our true concept of evil when we moved to christianity...when christianity tried to put all the Dark Gods(ess) into the one concept of Satan...IN ther acient time we feared Tiamat Pazuazu etc..the true Dark Gods(ess)...and the meaning to me anyway of true evil



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Bloodmother
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21:04:16 Nov 08 2007
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The soul was thought to be in the blood in ancient times. Blood sacrifices took on greater significance then.



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sumkindamonsta
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21:49:16 Nov 08 2007
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i think alot has to do with the shock facter..
due to the internet books games and tv humans have seen it all, i mean google nething and u will find it we as a species r mostly desensitised 2 the world and nuthing old is much 2 worry bout...
if u went and asked a tribe in the midle of nowhere about it u might get killed but you go 2 civilisation and they will think of a movie or a game not the fear that vampires gave 500myears ago is turned into emmm yumy kate beckinsale in tight black clothes!!!



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mystikalmoon15
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14:52:54 Nov 09 2007
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I think its silly for society to think that all vampires would be evil. I believe that within any species there are good and evil within it.



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TheFireWithin
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16:57:54 Nov 09 2007
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Vampires were seen as evil because that's what people wanted them to be originally. Then someone decided to go and give a vampire a conscience... simple as that, I think.



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BlindMag
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03:45:07 Nov 20 2007
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I think it may the only reason fictional vampires are seen as evil is because of their portrayal as monsters, demons, sexual beings and possibly in some books and movies murderers.

It is possible from my point of view that they aren't as bad as Fictional books have made them seem but maybe that the fear that they strike into many people, that has made them appear more evil then ever.



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Bloodmother
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05:05:39 Nov 20 2007
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Vampires are seen as evil when they beguile nubile beauties into blood ritual.

Since a vampire is capable of dawdling, as Dracula did with Mina over a period of days, days in which the young wench appears besotted, deceptive, furtively aware of puncture wounds to her throat, an entrance into her body that she has allowed.

Dracula, as portrayed by Lugosi, is almost like a pedophile looming over Mina's heaving bosom.

They are also evil when they slaughter humans wholesale dusk to dawn --- when they take more than they need, or are wasteful, wanton serial killers intent on destroying the world. These vampires are filled with a self-hate that is all too recognizable. We fear it and shun it.



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TheCryingDutchess
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05:09:05 Nov 20 2007
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It's the romance factor that has altered the vampires history.



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Rayvyn
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05:32:13 Nov 20 2007
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Of course our sense of evil has changed from what it used to be I mean hell some people back in history thought that women were evil just because they bled for seven days and didn't die but we dont think that way now. So that is definietly a part of it but also what would be the point in reading a book or seeing a movie where the vampire was always evil it would be the same plot and the sdame type of things would happen and there really wouldn't be much more you could change to make it better and then people would lose interest and the authors and directors would lose money, so why not let the vampire be good for once, besides that in a sense it would be wrong to make every vampire evil just because they had no choice when they were turned and were now a vampire we should make them evil no it would be like saying hay dude with aids you have bad blood and so your evil and because you passed it on to some one else they are now evil too, its not morally right



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queenofdarkness73
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05:53:00 Nov 20 2007
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Hollywood has made both good and evil vampires. It is up to all of us to choose which is good and which is bad.



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KingNocturnal
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03:01:01 Nov 21 2007
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i would agree that what was once seen as evil was a misunderstanding. But if you look at the human behavior and what the do to there own kind it would make ficional vampire look like angles that is why our vew of evil has changed.



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Bloodmother
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17:09:00 Nov 21 2007
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You said a mouthful, Rayvyn, and you hit on something with 'bad blood." Deliberately passing on a blood-borne death sentence is evil.

Back to the blood. Interesting that at one time tuberculosis was thought to be caused by vampires. The cure?

Bleeding.



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LordRazr
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17:44:46 Nov 21 2007
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I think that in today society that with Hollywood and Books etc. have also shown us where someone was turned and usually not by choice, plus they are a good person before being turned. That they just try to make the best of it and do things that are right with their new found powers as it were. Just like the new TV show Moonlight~ A good Vampire, out to help people and use their "curse" as some call it , for something positive and good.

Therefore we look at them in a whole new perspective. That Vampires are not all evil.



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sumkindamonsta
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17:54:14 Nov 21 2007
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next 2 humans how can anything be evil?



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18:59:28 Nov 21 2007
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Thats a damn good point. Humans are about the only species that will kill their own kind for the hell of it.

Vampires have been romanticised over the years, thanks to writes like Anne Rice and Laurell K Hamilton, but the fact remains that they only kill for food, so that makes them no worse than the lion that kills the gazelle for the same reason.



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ShadowKnight5107
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19:02:42 Nov 21 2007
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i think that woth all of the "images" of vampire now that no one can really be sure now if they are good or evil



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DawnofDays
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23:24:37 Nov 21 2007
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i dont think that vampire are evil for ther are some really evil people out in the world and they were not vampires so we should not assome that vampire are evil just because of that name alone.



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ladyruthven
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23:37:03 Nov 21 2007
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vampires are not evil they are only evil if harmd like any animal they defend them selfs, they need to live like i am a full vamp
I therfor am not evil



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ToxicKitten
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23:41:23 Nov 21 2007
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no, i belive some can be evil without being harmed....

just like dogs, some are mean even without being hurt



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crimsonxxtears
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23:44:06 Nov 21 2007
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thats exactly how i feel about vampires...i totally agree with bloodtaintedstars

the media and film industries has turned everything wrong with vampires...they think that they are mindless souless creatures out for blood

take 30 days of night for an example true that was an awesome movie but it still made it seem like all vampires were evil
but even in that movie it showed they had feelings for their own kind

but people make me sick because they always think they are mindless dogs when they are not
they still have souls they can fall in love and do everything mortals can

the media and legends of blood and gore should end



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ToxicKitten
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23:46:43 Nov 21 2007
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WOOT right on crimsonxxtears.


the meida should start looking at facts, insteda trying to make a quick buck



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crimsonxxtears
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23:51:40 Nov 21 2007
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exactly bloodtaintedstars

i have only found a few books about werewolves and vampires that are good and i for one loves those because it doesnt make them about to be monsters like others think them to be

and you know what that royaly pisses me off.....i wonder how many other people are pisssed cause of that

they were once human and still are in most ways
they can be even more helpful to humans if they werent so dog gone scared shitless of them

like i said once before some legends are true but not all of that legend is correct
just like the book people turn to for some answer from a man they call god



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ToxicKitten
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23:53:59 Nov 21 2007
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like int he book twilight, new moon, and eclipes.

Jacob, sam, edward, and alice are all GOOD

grant james and victoria are bad, but still.



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crimsonxxtears
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00:00:15 Nov 22 2007
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exactly bloodtaintedstars

i have read books that shows werewolves and vampires....each one shows that they are good and how protective they can be

the legends of them being monsters has got to end and its time that people see them for what they are
just like us
cept stronger and a lil wiser

the legends are some what true but mostly falso just like the book of god

written by man and made of lies
some of it may be true but not much



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ToxicKitten
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00:01:38 Nov 22 2007
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Lycans and Vampires are not mortal enimies.

they choose to fight, to get control. this is why alot of people hate lycans fromt he start and sya that vampires are mainly evil

I HATE THEM LIES!!!!!!!!!!!



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crimsonxxtears
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00:02:55 Nov 22 2007
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Exactly

edward was really good
and jacob

in the book bite me if u can there are tons of good vampires who protect humans and only few who turned bad

but they fought to show that they could live among humans



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ToxicKitten
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00:07:21 Nov 22 2007
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yup.

and that they can love, that they arnt evil and cold. that they do have a heart in them.


i think i have proved my point now.



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crimsonxxtears
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00:09:10 Nov 22 2007
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i wish everyone was like u bloodtaintedstars that they saw the good in things just like you

if anyone else has a good point to make please make it and i will reply happily



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Bloodmother
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02:29:26 Nov 22 2007
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I love "good" fictional lycans and vampires, utterly torn by the pull of opposite urges, wanting so much to honor the human side, and irresistibly forced to the dark. And their fictional human counterparts, lovingly witnessing their struggle, wanting to succumb to it, as well.

Do you think the real lycans and vampires are learning from the fictional depictions, or are the authors learning from the real lycans and vampires? And how does this redefine evil?



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crimsonxxtears
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02:34:41 Nov 22 2007
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thats one thing i cannot tell u my friend i really wish i could cause i would really love to know myself



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XoXelizabethXoX
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03:15:34 Nov 22 2007
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Vampires aren't feared as much, because movies and books have made you see them in a different light. It is not hard to deceive those with unopened eyes. Though to say Vampires are (were) evil in the first place is wrong, for all we know they could have been kind, and only fed when necessary. If they even did feed, cause vampires are all fantasy and mythological creatures, so they are what we made them, evil, blood-sucking, creatures of the night. How one views evil depends on the persons beliefs, and how the evil is displayed.



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Bloodmother
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04:33:46 Nov 22 2007
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XoXelizabethXoX, that's a real spin around the globe, and as usual the answer is probably in the middle.

We need to consider the intermediary --- media, knowledge, levels of knowledge and the ability to filter them.

For example, there are two elderly people in my life. They don't much like each other. They're female and they're both into serial killers.

The media is into serial killers. Is their interest fundamental to human existence? To what extent is it influenced by the media? Do they both harbor a genetic disposition toward serial homicide, and to what extent am I vulnerable to same?

With the increasing trend toward the "secular" vampire in movies, books and television, neither pure evil or pure good, are some people more inclined to embrace vampire mythology? In the process, do vampires become less evil or more evil?



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sesboab
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04:39:24 Nov 22 2007
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Good and evil are justified by each person moral values so what is evil to some is good to others. if i remeber my history right almost any one with magik was evil back in the early time look at the modern day wiccan whos is finnaly being excepted slowly and surly in todays world



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LordRazr
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16:18:14 Nov 22 2007
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well as was stated what can be more evil then us as humans we can be pretty evil and malice...



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countswitch
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16:22:45 Nov 22 2007
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i agree that because movies and books are making vamps seem more beautiful and charming that is the main reason most people dont see them as "evil" as much anymore.



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EternalXRage
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18:18:09 Nov 22 2007
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Ok now look at it this way, Do you think that a lion is evil for killing? Most poeple don't. So why would a vampire be evil if they where only feeding to stay alive. We all have to eat. And in most creatures, humans included, the number one instinct is to survive by any means necessary. So not all vampires are evil. At least I don't think so.



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DawnofDays
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20:08:28 Nov 22 2007
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bloodtaintedstars is right about vampire for there are like everyone else and need to be loved and i dont think they are evil. the poeple that hate vampire are evil.



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XxSyntheticDarknessxX
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23:27:12 Nov 22 2007
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i do think that our society has changed somewhat like others have said...But who can really say anything is evil..just misunderstood...



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Taninriff
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00:25:28 Nov 23 2007
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I think its just a natural thing in fiction. An idea comes out, people borrow it, and then later expand on it. Since vampires start out as people, its only natural to create stories where its not really a change into a monster but just a change in how that being lives. When they are monsters, their humanity is stipped away. But there is nothing to stop a writer from keeping the humanity in the change.



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xMitsix
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06:40:37 Nov 23 2007
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I feel that now days due to movies, books and so on...the image of an "evil" Vampire gets somewhat clouded with the portrayal of beings who thrive on sexual encounters with the beautiful people...sex sells and so do great costumes and pretty faces...

So I dont think the concept of evil has changed...I just gets dressed and sexed up a bit



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RavenKnight
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06:59:03 Nov 23 2007
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I think our idea of evil has changed, i mean look at the 50's back then a lot of people thought that smokeing, drinking and having sex before marriage was evil, today those same things do not seem bad as they would have in the 50's, and i think that vampires are seen the same way, 50 years from now the evilness that some people think of when you mention the word vampire will probably be gone...



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DeathNotes
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07:29:57 Nov 23 2007
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bloodmother, if anything could be said about the nature of evil throughout time, it is that evil is becoming more understood.

the more evil is understood, the less "evil" it becomes. we start to understand that there is no one answer for "evil" and "good". they are highly dependent upon situations, perceptions, and the opinions of others around us.

evil cannot be defined as it once was. when evil was readily defineable by the populace, it was easy to peg the evil on a singular being, such as the vampire. however, with the true definition of evil becoming less and less obvious, so too the image of the vampire becomes less frightening and becomes more romanticized in some circles.

this is evidenced in some tv series such as "moonlight" or "forever knight" or even "buffy the vampire slayer". truthfully, all hollywood vampire series and movies romanticized and minimized what was once considered ultimate evil.

the more broad the definition of evil, the less defined it becomes in the eye of the beholder.


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Serebro
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09:10:28 Nov 23 2007
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Wow, Jenova, I have to say that I agree, but I'm not sure I could have stated it that well.

We're also coming to understand as a society, if you look at film and books as a reflection of and driving force behind changes in societal attitudes, that we (humanity) are the real monsters in the things that some of our species do to other people. Look at the shift in horror movies recently--for example, the 1930s would never have done a movie about Hannibal Lecter--and then realize that society as a whole is more cognizant of the fact that we humans outstrip vampires or mummies in our capacity to be purely evil to each other. We don't have to be by nature, as is evidenced by the fact that most of us aren't.



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Witchy123
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12:17:59 Nov 23 2007
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I think as time passes our idears of what is evil and what is good are changing,like witchcraft in the passed was considered nothing but pure evil and now we barely bat a eye lid at people who practice the craft.So our Idears on vampires also change, but honestly we can make monsters from our minds but they could never beat the evil acts of the human race.



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BloodHarvestBride
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18:27:23 Nov 23 2007
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One account of a fictional vampire not being evil is in the book Twilight by Stephanie Meyer. The head (and the entire "family") of vampires feed soley on the blood of animals. In fact, Carlisle saved the second main character Edward from the Spanish Influenza by biting him and changing him. Carlisle has Amazing self control. He says in the book "I never wanted to be a monster"



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Bloodmother
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22:29:05 Nov 23 2007
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BlackLily --- I have Twilight sitting downstairs waiting for me.

Jenova, what you said makes sense, especially the last statement: the more broad the definition of evil, the less defined it becomes in the eye of the beholder.

Literary vampires reflect the gray areas in our modern morality. It's too simple to say they're becoming like us --- they're becoming superheroes.

Movie vampires are still gore freaks, wreaking havoc amongst humans, while T.V. vamps seem more akin to their literary brethren only more soapish as befits the medium.



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Meepz
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20:10:35 Nov 27 2007
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FIctional vampires have always been considered evil. Now adays we want to have a nuance view of a dark looming vampire. Perhaps as a society we have changed slightly what we consider good and evil, but I am more of the mind set that we sexualize darkness. We start creating vampires that are attractive and multi-dimensional. We say they're nature is evil, but there are many shades of gray and vampires can internally fight against this evil fate.



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othis
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20:16:19 Nov 27 2007
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in my mind eavle is a point of vew however it just goes back to baisic humas and there "understnding" of us if it is different kill it



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boneyardvixen
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21:08:26 Nov 27 2007
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I do not believe vampires are evil, like humans they have a choice between good and bad. However, they are labeled 'evil' because of the taboo of blood drinking.



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nightcraving
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08:58:25 Nov 28 2007
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Depends on the audience.



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RazaelRiezen
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13:10:53 Nov 28 2007
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what is evil in definition
its usually what ever the society you live in at the time era considers to be evil

back in the dark ages lepers were thought evil and devil spreaders due to their compositional state.

in this era for people in the usa many deem the people who live in Iraq evil
as the Iraqi's (sorry if that terms offends anyone) deem usa evil as does many other nations of the world.

So what is evil to you.
for me its people who stab you in the back people who have no morales and no virtues to do things which we by nature know isn't right via: cheating, lying , stealing , etc....

however evil is honestly a matter of opinion some call me evil, however those that know me in detail knows me as a sweet hearted lovable cuddled teddy bear lol.



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rubie
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14:26:18 Nov 28 2007
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a really long time ago evil was a lot of things, like doing something your not suppose to...giving someone the wrong look or something. but now, its bigger things, like murder and rape which were almost unheard of hundreds of years ago



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enchanted1369
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14:39:58 Nov 28 2007
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well evil spelled backwards is live humm



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Altimiera
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14:44:20 Nov 28 2007
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Refer to Twilight series,

Carpathian Mythology speaks otherwise as well.

The Eternals,
and the Regulars.

The species of Vamp vary.



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thegothprincess
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14:44:22 Nov 28 2007
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thinking that society has changed as a whole the veiws and aspect of people belives also changed so what we once thought was evil can now be romantic and good and sorta acceptable becouse things are scenein a diffrent matter still to me vampires are diffrent as times changed so have the humanity within the vampresso like people we have good and evil



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angelicallyvampiric
angelicallyvampiric
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08:57:10 Nov 30 2007
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interesting



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VR System
VR System

No Longer Registered
08:57:10 Nov 30 2007
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This thread has been automatically closed for length.



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•  Closed by VR System on Nov 30 2007  •

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