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Some pagans are so quick to dismiss the bible due to labeled religious wars. I just wondered how many have ever read this book? I have many times. I think it is a mysterious book full of magic and the best history book. Your thoughts?

I may be a wiccan, that didnt happen until later in life. but the bible i have read it and it was part of my upbringing. My mother said religion is a private thing and encouraged us to find the one that was meant for us. she and my father was catholic and we did attend but was never baptised. my sisters were however later. my two daughters are catholic and i read from the bible alot to them when they were little. ive never said jesus or god didnt exist. and nor do i shun the bible. but its not for me. Im wiccan to my roots and it suits me just fine. :)

Hehe yeah I think the Christian and all other ways of following the "sacred book/s", must be taken in personal lines of communication between them and their God, The interpretation of it to be a personal thing, sometimes in collective readings, the deviation of preach poison more that what the whole philosophy already does; molding severe judgmental reasoning in a whole society (like the whole ordeal about: God made Adam and Eve to be one, thereof in most churches their interpretation of Gays/lesbian are evil/wrong). I use to go to church when very little with my parents, I never really knew why, it was boring and didn't understand half of the things, but i always used to say" mother, why they repeat the same topic every sunday"hehe and now i understand. It was all preaching, and showing what was right or wrong, dismissing this, labeling evil to that,ect.. Well one day the pastor was "catch'd" stealing some of the money and in a relationship with another woman that was married with kids, and he had to get out of country to prevent problems. The whole money he raised in the church he invest it in a "preaching tower"which it really was named like that in the 10% envelope one "should" give, so this tower you go now and is all playground inside, they have Dinosaurs that move and growl, little roller-coasters, jungle like adventure, birthday spots, theater, mini zoo and stuff, up until now i understood that the main reason for this building creation was a "speakerbox"effect that will bring kids to the church(playground) thereof adults (new subscribers) money tree in the collective subscribers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCR869n-_to

To answer the question, yeah I read most of the bible to have and outlook in the christian world (non subscriber of the bible), as i have read part of many numerous philosophies, doctrines, sacred books, studies of many other inclinations, In the search of higher understanding of the similarities and differences the collective share in their views and how is detrimental in our growth as better reasonable beings in present times, where we hold a key of understanding (technology) and yet we let the opportunity fade with our old ways of conveying for truth and understanding of the unexplainable, as I say you could only judge when you know both sides of the coin, ignorance is just one side of the way...

I worked at a bible book store, I would watch as people would flock to read the latest book promising to " once and for all" make" The Word" more relevent to peoples petty daily issues.

Every chapter interpreting a passage of the bible to cater to their whim, or to expand on something that people want to challenge in others.

On the other side, you had books that leaned toward easing the restrictive devotion to the bible, secular friendly books you might say.

As a one time Baptist, I have seen the sever degree that the bible is followed, and being around Pentecost, I saw how darn' near insignificant the bible is, in light of " being slain in the spirit".

After having read Sumarian writings ( that where plagerized by Christians) I can see the agenda of the Christians, and Catholics. After reading the bible clearly, how can anyone who claims to be Wiccian, or Pagan not be thouroughly Peeved by the whole facade of the religion, or professed spirituality of Christianity, I often wonder if it is not a sign of how intimadating the Christians are to some that have intrest in other practices.

I grew up a in christian household, read the bible and yes it has a lot of magic and questionable things written, some things contradictive even. It makes for great entertainment for the storyteller but i wouldn't put my entire faith into things that are rewritten over time. My heart decided that religion isnt for me mostly because of the history of violence behind it.

I have read the bible and take alot into heart but i think all of us take a little of each thing we learn and grow from it.

I have read the Bible all the way thru twice and it is the path I choose to follow for my life.

I have read the Bible as well; I think that all of us could benefit from reading it, as well as other religious texts, to broaden our horizons. It's great to learn about the philosophies behind the variety of beliefs, in my opinion.
From the love and peace to the brutality in the various books' passages, I've found that there are more similarities than differences.

My family wasn't very religious, but I grew up with the Bible and the Koran. For the record, I consider myself an agnostic, leaning towards Wiccan teachings.

Personally I read the The Red Book by Mao, that makes me no more interested in being a Communist, but I get a clear picture of how some people miss apply the writings of Mao to suit their pet agendas as well.

It is a book like any other book, it is filled full of contradictions.

Personally, I think the book is a piece of crap and I don't believe in any of it.

They know the Bible has some valid history but most of it at least the New Testament was written about 150 years after the fact so it is mostly stuff passed down for a long time (here-say) and has changed especially those translated from the Latin Vulgate. In King James time the English they spoke was beautiful so that version tends to uplift people due to the beauty of the language but there are colloquial things in it that don't mean the same in modern English...ie Shambles. Now it would mean something falling down and in ruin but when written in that book they are talking about a meat market.

You have to take it for what it is. A book of some very profound writings. If it makes you feel that there is a truth hidden there then perhaps that is for you but if it doesn't for others that probably isn't their path. This sort of thing is very personal. No one can say it isn't true because no one has all the information except for some that can be proven but when you say the Bible you need to distinguish because some came from Judaism and the other did not. It is fact that the Old Testament has been misconstrued in many places. It is neither hear nor there. I feel if it is not your own faith it should just be accepted that it is something certain people revere and should be left at that.

now i am not sure about the bible being a mysterious and magickal book, But i do thing it holds a lot of stories that can help us in making the right decision in what we are to do.

As far as being a history book, I could not agree more. But, whether or not its a book of magic, is argueable at best.

I claim the right of the polytheist, does this mean I am Pagan? You decide. I have read the bible and come to the conclusion that, yes...in fact it is a history book, but whos history? Since it was made by supposedly several authors. How could it have survived this long? Where is the original? Why were the Evengelion books taken out? Who claims the right to take them out? Who claims the right to govern the laws of the bible? Who claims the right to...

I like the topic here actually. I've read the Bible several times of course and I find it to be a really good thing to read. Not just from a religious stand point (being that I am a Christian) but also from an ethical point of view. No matter what you believe a good many parts of the Bible can be followed and taught regardless of if you believe the words are from "god".

And it's also a really good history book. Most of the stories in the Old Testament that have been found to be true have little mention in other texts so there's a lot to learn. There are so many cultures that have been forgotten only to be found after extensive archeology that remained in the Bible for so many years.

Then there is the literary quality of it. The Bible is one of the most complex books in existence, made up of 66 smaller books, written by dozens of authors, over 1,500 years and all working toward one broad story retaining much empirical accuracy. (I'll only say this once, I'm not talking about the accuracy of the 'Son of God' or any 'religion' but from a historical stand point)

I would like to say about a an earlier post, although there are similarities between *some* Biblical writings and Egyptian and Sumerian tales there is ZERO evidence of actual plagiarism. Just because there seems to be a connection doesn't mean that one actually exists. The story of the Biblical Flood has been told through out the world and for thousands of years the only difference being the reason why the Earth was flooded, names and a few other things across cultures. But that doesn't mean various civilisations read something somewhere and then copied it, it means they all draw from the same event that was seen by multiple groups. (note I'm not actually talking about if a *global* flood happened or not) The same can be said for different ancient texts. An actual event may have occurred that was seen by multiple groups and then re-told, changing certain parts over time, like names, reasons etc. I just wanted to say that and not get into some drawn out debate because that isn't what this is about.

I grew up in a sect somewhere between Shi'i and Sunni, but is now not even considered Islam.
I've read as much as I could of the Koran, Gita, Bible, etc as I could find... as well as aural storytelling (my nephews grandfather is a pipecarrier/medicine man of the Cree)

I find that at the core none of the texts contradict.

I believe that the contradictions between religeons are political and personal. Spiritual leaders rarely contradict each other whereas religeous leaders often do. Shi'i Leaders used to even defend their oratory with the sword.

I agree with Xzavier and IronKnight...

It is a good book, well written in form and concept.
I also don't really care if you believe what Christians teach you about it. The stories are a very vivid, in-depth accounting of a time in history. They can teach you morality just as easily as Aesop's Tales can.

I find the story itself fascinating. The writer can turn a phrase just as easily as the best of them. I love Lord Bryron, Shakespeare, Edgar Alan Poe, and Robert Service. I think the Bible is a grand tale and a long read for an avid bookworm like myself.

It is fantasy fiction or true history...what ever you want it to be. But saying it is crap is not entirely a good thing unless you haven't read any of it, or you take it too seriously and get pissed off at the church waving crowds rather than the actual text. The text is fabulous. It is heart-rending, emotional and draws the reader in just the way a good book should. If you haven't really read it once, you should.

I would also suggest the Kushiel series by Jacqueline Carey; although most people (Christians and Asians) find its religious theme (and twisting) rather offensive. If you don't like the Bible itself...Try First Sight and the subsequent others in the series. It is the same story line and far better written than the old-world text of the Bible that some people have trouble following.

Jenna Karro

the da vinci code may have been fictional. but what if that was really true? it could very well be the biggest con there ever was. but I dont bash other's beliefs. we all have a support system that does have some kind of religious tone. even atheists may not believe in god or jesus but they do believe in themselves. faith in yourself.

Could the bible have been plagerized from Sumarian Lore, and Fable?

Would the church insert their deity into Fables, sort of like the way The Brothers Grimm where reedited?

Thank you ( above) for mentioning the 150 year gap.

Not only the gap but also the exclusion of many letters and poems from evangelians were banned, one of the St. Pete's love letter was excluded do to strong sexual content unadecuate for the message the bible intend to protray within the content. So you edit the recompilatioms of many alleged letters of stories and scrolls about all that divinity of prophets which hold resemblance with many other figures in many other cultures, as for "Xz" it said that Moses too visit many times the Babylonian territory since the Babylonians were predecesor of the Sumerians pass many beliefs and with it gods and myths specially the creation myth, afterward Moses made the Pentateuch which described the same story of creation and changed few things, yes the flood was described in many other sacred text but you could only get such information in the mecha of civilizations, the most developed places not in tribes or a bush..

I find the collective stories, and historic accounts of Kokopelli are far more profound then the often slanted bible.

I am Christian.

Although, I have followed other paths.

Even though I'm Christian, I still study other faiths that I find interesting.

I can't say if I believe in everything the bible says, but I do think it helps you figure out certain situations and diffulculties in your life, no matter what walk of faith you are from.

I agree, to say the bible is crap, means either you haven't read it, or shun it too easily to avoid criticsm from friends or peers, or because of a past experience that still bothers or angers you that has to do with religion.

Then what do you do when you have information of thing unevident for few groups/ tribes of people? You are seamed like a prophet with knowledge of things impossible to know by mere observation, then you need to guide your people with a good story and exclude other believers to welcome ethics in your new way, so if you have to much similarity then is directed as the same deity so what you do? You put other gods as evil figures so you only direct your judgement to your gods law, so the serpent god of Sumer was marked as the devil and if you pray to other gods not the one directed by the "prophet/messenger" then you are praying for the devil. Not to judge and things, the book teach great things in regards of how to behave in a group in a mannered respectful way in which you don't intrude others space and possesions but as exclusion it is poisonous to the masses one can say have kill more innocent people with the use of the devil upon someone than the Nazis would ever wish to exterminate, and is more judgmental than the Nazi party would ever be in a latent untraceable/depictive way. And to add it is something that keep us from growing positively in the present day. You know how many bellys would be full of poor people if moral ethics wouldn't intrude on techologies way..

I think your response is going to take on an ugly and hurtful turn.

Due to the fact that your indicating moral ethics stand in the way of certain advancements.

Sometimes they do, but there are still other reasons why advancements aren't made that aren't due to moral overtones.

If an educated person reads, or hears a fable that appeals to a peoples common sense, then attaches that fable to a deity, a deity that can then be usurped to impose mass devotion, can you imagine how feeble it would have been, had it not been for scribe technology ( paparus), and later presses?

so the plagerizers had better publishers to overshadow the original Fables.

Though some of the text escaped destruction at the hands of religiously motivated purges, however key artifacts where either taken, or in the catholics case outright fabricated.

Have read the Bible more than once. Have even taken some comparative religion classes. My reccommendation, get a copy of the Book of Kells.
If your a TRUE Pagan, then the Bible is not for you.

Leo

I believe the fact you have the possibility to clone chickens and eliminate hunger and starvation is enough for the cabsolute claim in counter to the social ethics religious groups supress.

Okay that, I don't have a problem with. Cloning animals, but sometimes that requires stem-cells. And I don't agree with that.

I honestly think that each person has thier own opinons on religions whether its thier own religion or another. I think that religions are they just to serve a purpose of worshiping a higher being or beings.

Personally, I find 'this' type of question worthy of addressing. Thank you for this opportunity.

Far be it from me to tell anyone what to Believe or what to Practice. However, to answer the question itself:

Yes, I have read the Bible. Not to mention countless other books on various Beliefs, Faiths and or Religions.

Every single "teaching" for lack of better wording has it's merits. The ability for that "teaching" to make sense solely depends on the 'acceptance' of the individual.

Guidacarta

As a wiccan I have read the Bible a few times. I find it a good historical book (to tell how people lived that long ago), and IMO I think the basic message of it is similar to the first tenent of the Wiccan Rede.

RE:"Okay that, I don't have a problem with. Cloning animals, but sometimes that requires stem-cells. And I don't agree with that."

Thats exactly my point, Now to dissect it, the question is: why don't you agree with stem cell research/implementation? Why don't you agree with it. I know the formidable response of the social view but lets see your response first.

I haven't read all of the bible but I have read most of the New Testament and a bit fo the old and being Christian I'll say I do take msot of it to heart, but then there are some things I don't so eh it's all up to your interpretation and you have to remember the bible was written by man not god, and though they say he spoke it to them think about this...everybody lies.

To gain an individual and personal response aside from a social response, one must first learn about Stem Cell research; what it is, how does it benefit the world, what are its draw backs.

Now, if the individual would describe their personal response based on the whats, hows and why's...then we might be on a good start in understanding why they do not agree with it.

I am pagan, however I was brought up as a roman catholic. I don't bash the bible as I find that the teachings of Jesus are profound and beautiful. I do however roll my eyes at those that misinterpret passages to support their own idiocies.

Typically the response doesn't involve any research and directs in to the generic point of view of the collective, the most reasoning/excuse that the vast amount of society give is " Only God has the right to -create- who are we to do such things? " typical approach from people discarding many things (actual people that doesn't believe in it, the pros it provides, the "greater good",etc) by the ignorance (staying abide one absolutist inclination). I mean that is what "they" want from us, that we remain as cavemen in the "under-the-table" politics agenda. When probably we have clones already somewhere, and stem research somewhat somewhere latent in our own eyes. For the girl with the comment, Stem Cell Research is already on many new surgeries, now if you are getting bald you don't need transplant, in few years you will have Stem Cell research creating follicles from your own cells, or if you are missing an Earlobe you can engineer one, as many other things. One can only think the main reason we are not implementing science in world issues- is because it would affect the powers, and powers don't want anything spoiling their incomes, so starvation can proceed; who knows maybe starvation in complement with diseases help to eliminate undesired groups by the high waters; they wouldn't like the idea of over-populations spoiling their goods either; so I guess this book >give voice to a society>society responds>controls the game>when they want something new they just force it and then everyone is in it with them.

Something here and there, considering I was raised as a Roman Catholic even though I don't share the same beliefs as my family, I had a Bible simplified for children. I liked its stories but never read it for religious purposes it was just stories for me.

The History Channel had a series on the military aspects of parts of the Old Testament. They focused on the Isralites leaving Egypt and moving to Canaan and conquering local cities.

From a military historian viewpoint, some of these books are not only a record, but also a guide to strategy and tactics. The familiar stories seem quite different in the eyes of the military historians.

I think the bible is full of esoteric wisdom...

I have read the Bible and I have learned from it just as I would any book on History of our world. I was taught to learn and respect others releigion or Beliefs, I feel that is the right thing. I know I do not want to be judged for mine, so I feel it is essential for everyone to learn or read the bible. It is about history after all...

There is even a book title " Atheist for Jesus".

In my opinion...anyone that takes ANY book and bases their entire faith or practice and beliefs after the words they find inside is making a mistake.

Each of our relationship with the Divine is unique. You CANNOT base your entire faith upon someone else's....period.

I, too, was raised Christian...Pentacostal, in fact...(I know I know lol). I know the bible front to back and yes, there are some wonderful passages therein...but there are also things that I DO NOT agree with...so just as with any other book that I read, the things that fit my beliefs are duly noted, the others...well, I guess you could say I discard as needless information that doesn't benefit me or my spiritual growth. Now, to others, the things that I discard, may be held in very high regard. That's because we are all at different stages in our growth...and we all have our own paths to follow.

So, to sum this up....yes the bible can be helpful and it can also be insulting, magical and restrictive...but none can argue that there is good and bad in every religious practice....

Don't follow the beat of anyone else...be your own!

I am a wiccan but i have read the bible and i respect the fact that it is a high religious icon. i just believe something different and i beleive many other people do but they just dont say it bc christianity is so popular so they just follow the leader. BE UR OWN PERSON

You're absolutely right about the Bible (not bible folks, it is a proper noun after all) being an excellent strategy guide. I know several of the tactics are still taught at West Point and during the Revolutionary and American Civil wars the Bible was used an awful lot.

If you get that technical, get it right- then It would be 'The Holy Bible' =0 remember ~dab~ is HOLY..

Yea, as stated by almost everyone else here, I was brought up to be casually Christian or Baptist. As I got older I followed my friends into the church and read the books, listened to the father, and attended the extra-activities. Somewhere later, my life kind of went down a wrong turn and every time I tried to re-establish my faith in the Christian God, things got worse. I went blind for a while, believing myself my own god. Some would call me a Modern Satanist for this, but I never really accepted it. Then, just recently last year, a met a new girlfriend; whom is one of many Wiccan's in her family along with a few friends. My best friend had proclaimed being Wiccan for a few months before then and I decided to look into it. As I read a few books and looked into the virtues and values of Wicca. I quickly realized how well this fit into my personal views and total outlook on life. Now I'm fully devoted and am practicing on becoming a witch. I look at the Abrahamic Bibles and I used to curse them and shun their name, but looking into my past, I had to accept that the morals of the books were still 'divine' in nature. Wicca teaches one to respect other religions and not to shun them. To do so would be blasphemy to Wicca. I agree. Though many of the stories in these 'bibles' seem impossible, it is not for me to claim them false. I just see characters like Jesus as wise prophets and many of the stories filled with valuable moral concepts. They are good to read and will teach a load of respect and love throughout the world.

I wasn't being technical. Nearly every other book is spelled properly but the Bible for some reason is over looked. There's only one Bible just as there's only one Art of War, it's not hard to make it right. I know folks spell God g*d or Bible bib*e or bible and really it's rather odd when other things are done correctly. If you're wanting to have any sort of intelligent discussion or claim that any point of view is accurate (even if it's not e.g plagiarism or a hollow Earth) then at least pretend to keep up appearances by spelling the most published book in history correctly. It's not that hard.

This is the same sort of thing as wat, yo, realz, egzactly etc.

hmm true, Buuuut, Who says this is an "intelligent" discussion or that is has to be error/typo free conversation? I suck at paraphrasing a sentence, just because is not my main language and I try to do the best I can to deliver my points clearly, but what if someone doesn't know that much of English, and is evident by bad grammar would that make him less intelligent or someone who needs to go back to school (prejudice). "God" is god for me, bible is as correct as Bible, in terms of meaning, if you understood it then is what it takes to get across a give/take discussion, if its the same thing and their is only one ( bible as you mentioned) then it wouldn't give any misinformation in regards of semantics, you hold a point if one want to talk properly then you type accordingly, but: Intelligent, right thing to do it and etc.. is your standards/demands of a moderated conversation, which is clear this is not a congress/ scientific/ scholastic/ or professional discussion, "is" a give all, take in conversation.

As the accuracy of discussion and assertions is just points of views, Nobody holds any truth is just a debate, neither you know if Moses talk with a bush and received all his divine missions by God, nor I know if the Bible was plagerized, but if you read the Bible, Koran, Popol Vuh, Myths of origins of many ancient cultures, including: Babylonians, Akkadians/Assyrian, Sumerians & (neighboring Mesopotamia cities), passages & stories of the flood, and creation of the human being: is from them, how else would 'Moses' (if you want to believe in Moses) get this information? divinity? so a flood that happened before the pentateuch text happened to came out of nowhere in the head of "Moses" or hear/say from Abraham bloodline( if thats the case how Abraham knew the information?, when is already documented in Egypt & Mesopotamian tablets/texts, Noah/Gilgamish(summerian)/Ziusudra(babylonian)/ seems incredibly similar to happen that many times don't you think? And that Abraham somehow travels on many great civilizations( neighboring Caldea aka south Mesopotamia =*cradle of civilization*=Sumer legacy)? So either that bush that Moses addressed was a computer from the future and gave info to Moses or "Abraham" took pieces of history and mold it to the community benefits then taken by christians and mold even more and added Jesus teachings and made the lovable book we all know as the Bible.

Don't get me wrong some other groups have done the same, Zoroastrianism "did" the same thing.
--"is the religion and philosophy based on the teachings ascribed to the prophet Zoroaster (Jesus equivalent), after whom the religion is named. The term Zoroastrianism is, in general usage, essentially synonymous with Mazdaism, i.e. the worship of Ahura Mazda( Gods equivalent), exalted by Zoroaster as the supreme divine authority."

"There is one universal and transcendental God, Ahura Mazda, the one uncreated Creator to whom all worship is ultimately directed.
Ahura Mazda's creation—evident as asha, truth and order—is the antithesis of chaos, evident as druj, falsehood and disorder. The resulting conflict involves the entire universe, including humanity, which has an active role to play in the conflict.
Active participation in life through good thoughts, good words and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep the chaos at bay. This active participation is a central element in Zoroaster's concept of free will, and Zoroastrianism rejects all forms of monasticism.

Ahura Mazda will ultimately prevail over evil Angra Mainyu / Ahriman (Satan/Lucifer equivalent), at which point the universe will undergo a cosmic renovation and time will end (cf: Zoroastrian eschatology). In the final renovation, all of creation—even the souls of the dead that were initially banished to "darkness"—will be reunited in Ahura Mazda returning to life in the undead form. At the end of time a savior-figure [a Saoshyant] will bring about a final renovation of the world, and in which the dead will be revived.[5]
There will then be a final purgation of evil from the Earth (through a tidal wave of molten metal) and a purgation of evil from the heavens (through a cosmic battle of spiritual forces). In the end good will triumph, and each person will find himself or herself transformed into a spiritualized body and soul. Those who died as adults will be transformed into healthy adults of forty years of age, and those who died young will find themselves permanently youthful, about age fifteen. In these new spiritual bodies, humans will live without food, without hunger or thirst, and without weapons (or possibility of bodily injury). The material substance of the bodies will be so light as to cast no shadow. All humanity will speak a single language and belong to a single nation without borders. All will experience immortality (Ameretat) and will share a single purpose and goal, joining with the divine for a perpetual exaltation of God’s glory.[5]
In Zoroastrian tradition the malevolent is represented by Angra Mainyu (also referred to as "Ahriman"), the "Destructive Principle", while the benevolent is represented through Ahura Mazda's Spenta Mainyu, the instrument or "Bounteous Principle" of the act of creation. It is through Spenta Mainyu that transcendental Ahura Mazda is immanent in humankind, and through which the Creator interacts with the world. According to Zoroastrian cosmology, in articulating the Ahuna Vairya formula Ahura Mazda made His ultimate triumph evident to Angra Mainyu.

As expressions and aspects of Creation, Ahura Mazda emanated the Amesha Spentas ("Bounteous Immortals"), that are each the hypostasis and representative of one aspect of that Creation. These Amesha Spenta are in turn assisted by a league of lesser principles, the Yazatas, each "Worthy of Worship" and each again a hypostasis of a moral or physical aspect of creation."

---"it is believed that key concepts of Zoroastrian eschatology and demonology have had influence on the -Abrahamic religions- (LOOOOKY). On the other hand, Zoroastrianism itself inherited ideas from other belief systems and, like other practiced religions, accommodates some degree of syncretism.
Many traits of Zoroastrianism can be traced back to the culture and beliefs of the prehistorical Indo-Iranian period, that is, to the time before the migrations that led to the Indians and Iranians becoming distinct peoples. Zoroastrianism consequently shares elements with the historical Vedic religion that also has its origins in that era. However, Zoroastrianism was also strongly affected by the later culture of the Iranian Heroic Age (1500 BCE onwards), an influence that the Indic religions were not subject to. Moreover, the other culture groups that the respective peoples came to interact with were different, for instance in 6th-4th century BCE Western Iran with Fertile Crescent culture, with each side absorbing ideas from the other. Such inter-cultural influences notwithstanding, Zoroastrian scripture is essentially a product of (Indo)Iranian culture, and—representing the oldest and largest corpus pre-Islamic Iranian ideology—is considered a reflection of that culture."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism

All I'm saying is if you're going to spell one thing properly you can spell Bible properly as well. I know some people spell it bible intentionally for various reasons and it's pretty sad.

It's the name of a book, stop being petty and spell it right if you're going to spell the names of everything else right.

It's disrespectful not to and it's childish to spell it bible for any reason other than actually not knowing it's supposed to be Bible.

bible bible bible bible....Sorry! disrespect over "that" is a scale you created over that "insignficant" error of addressing a word, who are you to set boundaries/impression on such word on others; if you want to close the thread do it by other means, this is kinda "dumb" for a discussion. But I will consider your petition = Bible.

I'm not talking about the random bible I'm talking about those who refuse to spell it properly when they spell every other proper noun word right. I just asked for those people to spell it right. If there's any problem with my simple comment or you think I'm screaming bloody murder on a random thing or think I'm trying to have the thread closed or taken off track you are grossly mistaken and the issue lies with you and anyone else who have a problem with my simple and innocent request that people spell Bible.

There's no reason for getting upset, taking offense or anything. geez.

You honestly can't see where I'm coming from? So many people have problems with the plain words Bible, God etc that the only way they can survive life is to constantly make a "Point" by misspelling it or using derogatory terms. These same people have no problem spelling Satan, Pagan, Satanic Bible etc but they can't spell Bible? It's not hard.

All I did was ask. Now, I'm done with any further discussion on this particular topic.

i do my own thing ive read it .dont follow it .i have my own practices .one that is more fit for me "spiritual" if you will .i dont like to be tied down to a religion .the christians would call me pagan.but that is me .and i only change for myself.

I have a question.

In general "pagan" is any belief system that is outside of the norm, more technically it is any belief system outside of Christianity and/or pre-Christian Europe. Do pagans (be they Wiccans, Druids, Buddhist etc [whatever pagan means to you]) see the Bible as a book of wisdom or some other positive resource, even if not the Book of God's Word? Similar to how Muslims think Jesus was a prophet but not a deity.

Fair enough ~Zxavier~ What I don't understand of the Bible, and I want you (~Zxavier~ a fellow subscriber) above others to enlighten me: according to the Bible/correct me if wrong; We have to convey on God only, and not pray/believe for any other thing/god-ess/person,etc..( commonly viewed as false gods in your doctrine) And if you don't accept "Jesus Christ & God" as your savior and abide to the amendments/Gods laws on us, in the final judgement you would not be accepted to the heavens and have to serve certain of time in hell, "eternal suffering, and all the package". So are you telling me that, people in the jungle(for a simple example) that doesn't know anything about our civilization and much less religions and never get fond with any communication to the meta-population, and never get the doctrine and Gods message- They are automatically going to Hell? they have "soul" right? they are like us, so is their a rule excluding them or somehow they had the opportunity to learn about Christianism o.O. Better more: if a kid is induced to another belief system and the kid is innocent is just like any other parent wanting their values/belief/stuff for the kids like many of us were induced, so the kid that were programed with another belief system and later on see life that way and later dies and is "judged in heavens" will he go to hell for praying to another god that is not your God/all christian God? 2.1 billion(aprox) people will be "saved'(without excluding subscribers that don't even follow the doctrine/but proclaim to be one) and the difference (4.5 aprox) will serve time in hell?(for not subscribing, following "false gods", breaking God commandments, etc..).

religion is a concept developed by man (humans) as we are (typically) a social animal. religeon was a way to socialize with acceptable behaviors, basically to control the masses........
THAT does not mean I am completely discounting the bible or any other religious book. but they were written in a time as a guide, not a step by step direction. Alot of the stories in the bible were written by people who's eyes had never seen technology. A man who sits and comtemplates a crowd and watches them get restless vrs the participants in the crowd who are oblivious to the people around them is going to be able to "Foresee" a riot.
I've read the bible, had an extensive religious up bringing and no where in the bible did it say create a religion. even Jonah only had to go and talk to people. and that was just so people would "believe" in god. not create a set of beliefs to their likeing and force it on others. God also told Peter that all were God's children no matter their beliefs.
If you look at the basic principals of all the religeons they are basically the same. Do unto others as you would have done to you, Do as you will an it harm none..respect life etc

That's a wonderful question!

We are bound by what we know. As a person who has heard the Word of God the only way I can go to Heaven is to accept Christ (which I have). Those who have not heard about Jesus (which are many) do NOT automatically go to hell.

The Holy Spirit (a part of God) is the spirit of comfort, knowledge and wisdom. No human before Christ or after will ever live life without having the opportunity to go to Heaven. The Holy Spirit speaks to everyone at least once in their life. Those without knowledge of the Law (aka the Bible) are covered by God's grace, the same for children, the mentally handicapped etc. God will show himself, through the Holy Spirit, to everyone. He may use nature, another person, a thought, anything to convey his existence.

Since they are under God's grace all a person has to do is acknowledge that there IS a supreme being, God, and live a just life according to what they know is right. For example, Native Americans believed in a supreme god, the Great Spirit to some, and with that they acknowledge his existence. They also lived lives according to their understanding of right and wrong. So when they die they will be judged by God and their lives will be held up to the Law (which includes grace). Some will go to Heave and others to hell according to their faith and works.

I say works because even someone who believes in God today but lives a sinful and horrible life (rape, murder etc) will not go to Heaven because they violated the Laws of God. Of course should they repent and ask for forgiveness (genuinely) then they may go to Heaven.

It is not the will of God that any man parish but that all may have eternal life. To facilitate that we have the Blood of Christ (for those that have heard the Word) and we have Grace (for those who either haven't heard or cannot understand the Word).

We are all given chances, we are all offered the gift of eternal life it's up to us to accept it.

I had a similar conversation with Imagesinwords and she sent me her thoughts on the matter. I'm posting them here because it may help you and others understand things a bit better.

"The Roman Catholic Church teaches that through the graces Jesus won for humanity by sacrificing himself on the cross, salvation is possible even for those outside the visible boundaries of the Church. Christians and even non-Christians, if in life they respond positively to the grace and truth that God reveals to them through the mercy of Christ may be saved."

"If a person lives according to the natural law written on his heart, God will send him a means of knowing the truth by either natural or supernatural means; that is, he will send a missionary to teach him the faith or even an angel, if necessary."

I hope that helps.

Is this part of the bible or a interpretation you made? Either of it, then> who is the false god if it manifest to everyone in a different way, even if it is not the same doctrine, but a positively "good deeds/actions"perseption in life upon others is the "God way to manifest on non subscribers". Which are the "false gods" in this given case? and why all the sacred wars over the "truth God"?; many tribes believe in numerous gods, natural gods & spirits, not in one as you mentioned, "Supreme God/spirit". And Egyptians believed in many gods, Sumerians, Wiccan practitioners, if your God manifest the goodness through numerous other deity then the contradiction is even more evident. The assertion then might be: "Im not a christian follower but i love adultery so God revealed to me in this doctrine that accept that I can F$3% and also assures my spot in heavens" Still the guy is a good human being "as the ethical meaning of the Christians -God- demands"upon men.

The bible.... hmmm I've read it so many times that it's quite disturbing. When we think of this book it must be said that although highly entertaining and historic it is distorted. Originally there were many more "bibles" which were simply testaments to the life of Christ. After the council of Nicea the books were edited specifically to achieve one goal, the unification of as many people as possible under a common belief system to create a strong and stable "Roman Empire". For additional information about this:

http://barnabas.net/how_survived.htm

http://barnabas.net/

Then suggested reading would be the Holy Qu'ran. This might not be popular due to our ongoing political climate for some of you but it is quite interesting and you may enjoy it. :)

http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/quran/

Anyway... interesting posts, Thanks everyone!

Coming from a Sufi tradition... my opinion is:

All religions come from the same god. All the religions build on the previous spiritual laws and traditions of the previous religions. All religions accept the spiritual traditions of the previous religions... Islam accepts Jesus as a prophet of god, as well as Moses, and Zarathustra.

The problem is that a religion i s loathe to accept new teachers... Jews don't accept Christ, Christians don't accept Mohammad... etc.

It seams silly to argue that religeons have built apon each other and "stolen" from other previous cultures.

That's like saying your grade 8 teacher stole multiplication from your grade 3 teacher, to teach grade 8 mathematics.

Either way you look at the bible, religiously or not, it is a magnificent piece, err, pieces of work. There are many life lessons you can learn in it, whether you are pagan, satanist, christian, or what have you.

I've read some of the bible and I can say I've learned some things from it. I'm not that religious of a person, but hearing people's stories are always interesting, no matter what religious sect you belong to.

I am definitely a Christian, being totally spiritually liberal. I am also very much in parallel with KGlitterous' views. As well, I am a Theologian, this is what I do (study The Bible, professionally).

What is The Bible? The Bible is the story of God and His people, with the continued themes of Creation, Sin, Judgment, and Redemption. All religions have this aspect and just call it something different- rather it is karma or what have you.

The Bible doesn't contradict, it's taken out of context, really. If you find part of it that doesn't jive, maybe you should read the whole story before you say it disputes itself. And also, it's good to know the cultural context as well so you understand why some statements are made (What was going on in the world at that time? Who is the speaker? Who is the audience?). A good one is The Archaeological Study Bible which includes tons of articles and photographs of the ancient countries and actual proof of many of the stories as far back as The Old Testament.

You may not care for its teachings or be in the Jesus fan club... but there is science that backs the historical Bible's accounts.

I want people to respect my views and path- so I respect theirs. Not all Christians are the same, there are tons of different 'brands', and some of you that come from bad experiences have not experienced the whole shabang. Yes, many times people ruin a path with their flawed humanity- but the whole enchilada shouldn't get blamed for it. Some of us are pretty damn cool and open-minded... or we sure as Hell wouldn't be here on Vampire Rave ;)

If a person was to open a forum thread on a Bible website about such topics as, the occult, or vampires would it be received like this thread is here?

Who knows. Many times Christians are a little more hostile against my religion than vice versa. At the same time many Satanists are a little more hostile towards Abrahamic religions than the other way around. It depends on the person really.

Those kinds of threads have been posted before, and they thrive quite well. That's the real theme of this place anyway... so what's everyone waiting for? Make one about vampire texts! Refresh us.

I believe in 'Intelligent Design',but not the biased and contaminated passage of a story from here/say to edition by religious groups that add/subtract to mold a "utopic" design of a favorable social behavior to the X nation of the time, now the world ( which it was always intended as to all have the same ethics in regards of "A perfect civil interaction">the perfect machine). I can't take that christianism hasn't shaped my way of life, or that it made me a "bigger or lesser"in regards of persona', but is not directly from the religion, more by observation from an icon of the religion, and nope is not Jesus, but the fair/just judgement, reasoning and arrogance my grandma' expressed on every given cirscunstance, I don't follow the book but i admire her way to judge things, and she does follow the doctrine as super truth, so I could say it did influence me in a latentive/untraceable way, although I discard the prejudice the doctrine evokes and I tend to incline more on reasons/knowledge than text for the word. Truth can only be found where the compilation of knowledge borders. The more you learn the less ignorant you remain. For all I/we know (not discarding the possibilities) there are hundreds of things that other have from the Sacred book and knows them, and we the generic populi limited to the public version have the 'some' of most banned stories, we are ignorant until further research of the truth of something. Picture the scenario that: some archaeologist get to know some magnificent truth first than the whole world for few months/even years, or probably never released for national security, yet we all remain ignorant. Or that you read one chapter of the history book and base all your judgement on that chapter while others read the whole outlook.> take that to a macro scale to the people who take the Bible as the only truth for everything and that dinosaurs fossils are " A challenge of our faith".

Dinosaurs aren't a challenge to Christian faith :P

There is a difference between truth and fact... a message can convey truth that is not factual, and The Bible does that a LOT... That was Jesus' favorite way to speak, through parable. Secular example: There is truth in Aesop's Fables.

The Bible speaks of historical events, and also lessons that are metaphorical. Not all Christians are literalists in regards to The Bible.

Truth, then now, what separates true/false Christians?> are they all true christians cause they follow the bible but some choose to accept say "homosexuality as a love concept rather than adamite theory of "the women for the men conception", or all of them are correct in their ways, one can pray to the Virgin Mary, the other only prays to God, the other let you pray to the saints, Mary and God too. Then you are making subgroups, stratifying a whole. Unless now their is a parable that says "don't worry all subdivide categories of the Christian Bible are correct in adaptability/interpretation of each "> then so you are creating multiple Gods in a more broad sense since each interpretation is not the same as the one Roman Catholic-apostolic, one that accept this, that, the praise of all the above and what's not. What's the way then? the one i choose of all churches?>and will assure me a space in heaven? So this slip behavior from the main/original church was supervised or let to take the division of christianism to embrace all possible groups within the same community regardless of difference in reading.

I have ventured into many different aspects of Christianity, and found that it tells a very never ending story. I really hold no disrespect to those who actually walk this faith, but I however am not on that path. I believe it is just to man made. Words and fearful stories of a God who so loves his people, but then destroys them when he is supposed to be a God of love? It's all to put fear in hearts who then become powerless, and let religion control their lives. I walk my own path !

You ask some very subjective questions, Revenous... and I refuse to belittle other forms of Christianity here in the forum as per the rules :)

My version of it does not banish homosexuals to the hounds of Hell. They are welcome in my church and they can be open and not have to change. They are accepted who they are and where they are... and can also be ordained clergy. Your tons of questions about Christianity would be answered varyingly, all depends on who you are talking to.

But you know what- that totally veers from the question of this threads doesn't it? It seems to have gotten on to more of a Christian debate (off-topic). The Bible is also the book of the Jews, at least the Old Testament.

What we need to be talking about is, what are your thoughts on this ancient book- dismissable, or worthy? That can be stated without giving your reasons why Christianity is wrong.

What makes a Christian a Christian isn't if they think homosexuality is wrong or that we should/shouldn't cook on Sundays. A Christian is ONLY a person who has accepted Jesus (Christ) as their personal savior. After all the word Christian basically means "those of Christ". The Greek word Christianos means "followers of Christ".

You can read the Bible all you want and go to church every day but that doesn't make you a Christian.

A lot of what makes up modern Christianity (not necessarily Christians and isn't always part of Gods Word) is based on mans interpretation of the Bible which is where we get denominations, Protestant, Catholic etc. And much of what makes up denominations (such as Methodist, Baptist etc) only has a partial connection to the actual words of the Bible and are often taken out of context. Like Images said, the Bible does not contradict, only our interpretations do.

If a person belongs to a denomination and finds that their doctrine fits what they believe then they are more than welcome to stay. However, you don't have to be in a denomination to be a Christian. Our personal interpretations of the Bible (which includes those who govern denominations etc) aren't always the true meaning of scripture. That is why it is so important to read the Bible with 1) an open mind and 2) most importantly with the Spirit of God guiding us. Humans can not fully understand the Bible on our own we must have the help of God.

If two people read the Bible and say that the Holy Spirit revealed things to each of them and those things contradict each other then the problem lies NOT with scripture but with the individual.

You're right Images, I'll get back on the topic at hand as well :)

Nope is a carried debate from what is that: "A question to all of you" to narrowed discussion between your response and my counter, but I understand your point, but as you said Jews also follow part of the Old Testament writings; thats exactly my point, is another God within the same lineage of belief or adoption of sacred texts, are Abrahamic roots still have different "gods" all claiming to hold the truth and the rest miscarried . Your church welcomes 'homosexuality' but their are others that don't and judge and mark that as an evil action, sacrilegious or against God's ethic/moral law and deviate from the true meaning of Christianism, and which one is a true church from the false church> If in this one one can go to hell for some rules and the other not (in the end still makes me a "Christian"either way)?. Which makes it all seam like a subdivided churches that are confused about some of the things in their religion but accepts everyone- as long as you abide the "moral/ethical rules" of God. Rest my case =S

What you are saying is not exclusive to Biblical debate, but that of any debate. Some people have one spin while others have a different one. Those differences of interpretation do not invalidate the book.

And I don't know who you've been talking to, but the Christians and Jews I know don't think they are worshipping a different God or multiple gods, they merely have a difference of opinion. Not the same.

The discussion between ~Revenous~ and ~Imagesinwords~ is quite entertaining and amusing. One side seems to want to hit the other side with the "fact" book, while the other side already knows the "facts."

~Revenous~ appears to have a belief in "intelligent design" and yet he denotes his distaste for contaminated passages made by religious persecusion. Many have this belief as well, and stand by their convictions sometimes with harshness that might be exaggerated.

Why does anger have to be installed within an individuals mind to lash out against religious ideals? What makes religion instigate such anger and hatred within the mind?

When one tries hard enough to find contradictions within the bible itself, they would read the passages and find apparent documentation for such contradictions, without reading between the lines themselves.

I do not defend religion, or the bible...even though I am a theologian, I neither respect, nor ignore the behaviors of individuals nor religions. I am nuetral ground.

I think the point that ~Revenous~ is trying to make is that the bible is always literally taken out of context by many individuals that choose to remain ignorant and respond with hysteric allegations.

We all know that the bible was written by many individuals and was historically challenged, moderated, ripped apart for cultural and idealistic benefits out of persuasion to make certain religions "better in scope" then others. This I think, was ~Revenous's~ point.

~Images~ point of views speaks on allegory in its best presence. The bible does this on a constant basis. The credibility factor remains shadowed, since again; we all know that the bible is historically lamented by those of whom wish to embark on how do I say "religious conquering?"

Religions have always fought for the title of "THE" religion, this is always a constant. Martyrs for such religions always persecute others for not understanding, not believing, as well as contradicting their own ideals and philosophies. This is what makes religion such dangerous territory. Since they take passages from the bible and immediately make up their minds as to what the passage represent and thus taking it out of context. Happens all the time.

The bible does not contradict itself, the individual percieves the bible as contradictory because the understandings from within the bible are shadowed in allegory and thus none understandable to uninlightened individuals.

Much like the old computer adage... the problems are usually with the user and not the machine.

People always screw things up. As far as faiths are concerned, those things are just personal. Some people are happy where they are, while others feel the need to tell them they are wrong and try to get them to defend their beliefs. Hey, you have a faith or you don't. Simple as that as far as I am concerned.

Holy Hell this is my 666th post LOL. Gotta love it :P

You are misunderstanding my post, in another way, that if here you can go to hell and in the other one you cant for a certain pro/cons in the divided churches/denominations then they have to be viewed as different God by default, because the line of the bible is one then the interpretation is the other in both different views then we are not looking at the same things regardless of similarities or adoption of books, Islam, Judaism, Christianism have that as common denominator but they don't pray to the same deity, or the same way, or abide to moral codes or godly laws altogether, As a micro zooming the Christianity and different denomination within the group, one can say is not the same thing they are worshiping regardless of the book as guidance, you can't miss both worlds in a congregation and make them agree if to say "the pope is married" and is something not accepted by the other that this take place (a simple example, to put at rest the homosexual topic). If you go to hell in one for a thing and can go to heaven for the same thing in another 'house of God' then is not the same in regards of principles, some would try to take the "homosexual"demon out of you(literally).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShGDZhOWRT0

Hell is also debatable :P Many will say they believe that is a state of mind and not a 'location'.

I can't speak for most of these things you mention. My views are way different than that of these thoughts and views you've heard about. I'm a heretic in the eyes of Fundamental-types.

I have to agree with you images about Hell being a state of mind. Really I believe here on Earth if you think about it is our very own living Hell. Does it not say in your book that your God slain the Devil to the very core of Earth?

That is actually not in The Bible, NFA. That part of Isaiah is actually a story of the fall of a Babylonian king, if it is read in full context. They were called The Morning Star back then- like the Pharoah in the Moses story was.

That is a story that is a mix of many other texts. Like Lilith, not in 'The Bible', but it is a well-known Jewish story and found in other texts.

While others respect the human being and set aside preference and prejudice, and talk about the love more than the whole, Genesis Adamite theory as a fact in between of love and mortal "ethics" in some interpretations. And no im not hateful for any belief system I just like to touch bubbles, no popping anyones bubble. I do admire the teachings of "jesus", I don't like how others use the honest programed people into machines of what some take as factible truth.

I don't think anyone likes a person who tries to 'program' others to fall in line with their agendas.

Ok I guess i stumble with the open window of christian groups, not a fundamentalist. Meh! would've hold some fun, they usually go for the "your a lost lamb, and going to the pits of hell, heretic & devil worshiper, for just conveying of intellectual debate"..

Well - those types would get banned from the forum.

leave it to the moderaters to suffer the tyrants of religious persecusion...Muahahahaha!

Doing a damned good job at that!

I believe, The scale to ban this kind of threads/conversations has improved, they aren't closing the thread with " has something to do with a religion>Closed due to guidelines" before you just mentioned anything to do with anything religious and was closed with no reasonable scale, there was no debate on topics similar to this/ or atleast didn't last long. ----> ok erase this hehe, holds no relevance to this.

*imagesinwords edit* Actually the rule is just that the posts or thread can't ridicule the philosophical tenants of another religion, and that truly means any religion. So we just try to keep people in those lines and let conversations grow if they can.

Sir yes sir lol, true true..So ...the bible.. ehh..So how do you interpret the whole Great Flood scenario, and story of Noah? I read a documentary many years back that where the Mediterranean Sea is sited now before it was all land, but when the Strait of Gibraltar broke loose, the waters came in and created the great flood among all those lands which now is the Mediterranean Sea. I don't even know how much of this is factible or ficticious but one would have to search for such assertions.

Personally, I believe it fully. I've seen a lot of theories especially the few that revolve around the Mediterranean Sea and really I don't see how a localized flood could be spread into the lore of civilisations across the world. I also don't see how such a flood would have caused the author of Geneses to write about it in the way he did. A local flood caused by a geological dam wouldn't cause it to "rain" for 40 days, it wouldn't flood an area thousands of feet deep and for thousands of sq. miles to allow the Ark to rest upon a mountain and then the waters simply vanish into the sea. I have other issues with it as well but those are ones that came to mind first.

Scientifically speaking the idea of a global flood is very much a possibility. The Earth contains many times more water under the surface than in all the oceans combined and we know that faults can break up and open within seconds, we also know that water can surge forth out of the Earth and we know that land has sunken all over the planet. If the Earth were to push out a vast amount of water the land above the water would sink. The water would also enlarge the size/depth of oceans and fill up underground lakes etc.

Now what I just wrote isn't in and of itself an attempt to "prove" the Biblical flood but it does help lay the groundwork.

Now, I take a lot of the Old Testament as a story not an exact play by play factbook of the history of the universe. I do that for several reasons the biggest being that as a Christian I believe in Christ and Christ's Word is that of the New Testament another reason is because some parts of the Bible (Old and New Test.) were told as parables or stories. So I think the specific points of the Biblical Flood as it is told in Genesis may not by 100% accurate. I do however think that there very much was a global flood that lasted sometime and did put a strain on the life of this planet.

Doing a quick Google search will also reveal many stories about the flood from all over the world and coming from different time periods which would mean they didn't all come about as a result of Missionaries etc, some of these stories are thousands of years old.

Ok, I deleted all the off topic posts, and the ones that seemed to start the confusion towards the end so that you guys could continue on with your discussion as it seems you were all very into this thread. :)

I was christian once upon a time. I disliked it. So I moved on to others. I've read a lot of this book. But to me it was written by men that all had similar ideas. I don't believe that all of lifes hopes and future fall into place because a book says it.

Anyways yes I have read the book.

Twenty-five percent of the bible is prophecy and all of it's pedections have come true. That is the true power of the bible.

I am Pagan and Christian. I read the bible.
But I keep perspective that the bible has been rewritten over and over by MAN to suit specific religions and followers.
God did not write the Bible, man did and still does.
I have to agree with Doru of it's works.

To the OP, I was about as fundamental a Christian as you can get (Apostolic Pentecostal) and have read the Bible several times, both in chunks (passage a day) and cover to cover. I am now Wiccan (been with it for almost two years now).

My take is that history of Christianity is marked with high points and low. Too often its pushiness and outright absolutism is what turned me off after 17 years of following its path.

Another thing is the simple fact that almost every adherent is indoctrinated to force others to convert by evangelizing when more often than not most people who have an interest are driven to convert by someone they admire because they live their faith instead of just talking about it.

Picking a fight over the crusades, the burning times and the inquisition are easy ways of bringing down their high handed manner.

These are just my personal observations and personal experience. Results may vary ;)

well stated VoodoC

Doru, what compels you to state the bibles prophesies have come true?

I don't know what Doru is specifically talking about... but as for one thing with The Bible, what is foretold in the Old Testament is revealed in the New Testament. The rest I will have to say is mere opinion, even if it is one I believe.

Twenty-five percent of the bible is prophecy and all of it's pedections have come true. That is the true power of the bible.

I don't even want to inquire the statistic in this; because is simply un-documentated because is exactly what "images" said: is open interpretation. But if you have followers> mostly a quarter of the world following it, don't you think some of the things would end in a "prophecy"? So if it a "sacred guidebook" don't you think everything written would be act as sited? If you mean what my granma' always tells me: "you see! the Bible says, they will come diseases that will wipe many groups, natural disasters, false prophets lecturing the wrong path, the birth of the antichrist, and so on "you might (some followers) think. Yeah worse diseases have come and go every time and period and will keep coming (generic statements that could easily fit to everything) Napoleon, Hitler, .. was one"> yet if the antichrist suppose to lead at the end of times, those were seen as the end of times and we still around here. If it was by interpretation from the subscriber then everything you do and seem similar is a "prophecy" of your book could be a prophecy, and you take it at heart even more. When those things are interpretations that are free of conviction, it could land on everything, not something specific (no prophecy at all); If their is a BIG war and the world is dying Im pretty sure religious groups would be praying to be saved and thinking( this was so in the bible) instead of surviving it.

When you follow a sacred text and abide to that, you mold your world into it, so respectively; your actions are the one making "the prophecy"latentively giving that the society is founded by christian principles> in this case the collective as one force against opposing views in the past or present times will be judge based on the ethics adjacent to the "ethics" adopted by the country, we are making your "prophecies" and we are covering it with the book, a behavior evidenced in his post.

Talking about stem cell research now? Tthis thread is once again going off-track- back to topic before this has be closed due to too much derailment.

you want to know how a localized flood became known world wide ..THE BIBLE the most published book in history. missionaries telling everybody about how it happened . and the good in one church but not in another thing ... man wrote the bible he picks and chooses what he wants to follow without "changeing " the thing .you can go to a hundred different churches and most likely none of their rules are the same . mostly it's to rule the masses .bottom line keeping order . it's like a giant psyche ward playing the same music . dont give them reason to believe anything else or we loose control.keep "FEAR OF GOD" in them and they wont start wondering about the green grass on the other side.

Please get fond with the conversation at the mid discussion of this thread, where a point was brought and an inquire was made on the person who responded not few posts above. Its the continuation of a micro discussion pertaining both of us and the carried debate rooting from the same subject inquiry, make your judgement wisely we all know the limits.

I wouldn't call it a history book, more like a story/ poetry book. All i ever got from the Bible were stories and Psalms. Everything else in religion just seemed toomuch like politics at times. I never had the motivation to delve deeper unless there was an idea or someone raised an question to me about their faith or thoughts on God and the soul. When i found my answer and was satisfied that's where i stopped. I've tried to read different versions of the bible but I always got bored or confused.

DO, once again I'll inform everyone.

The Bible wasn't even finished until around 120AD and it didn't become "The Bible" until after 400AD. The earliest records of the flood as told by the Jews/Hebrews comes from around 1,000 BC. Now, although Jews have been around for thousands of years they haven't had any form of global influence until much more recently. I find it hard to imagine that the story some Native Americans tell came from a group of people who were limited to an area not passing modern day Rome or Pakistan at the time. Especially since Europeans didn't even set foot in North America until 3,000 years AFTER Genesis!

Missionaries weren't fully globe trotting until after the Crusades. The first Christian mission in Iceland wasn't until 740 AD and Europe wasn't "fully" Christian until the 1300's!

How is it the modern reach of Christianity and the amount of perversion that has been placed upon it by some (conflicting dogmas, wars etc) can be attributed to the actions, stories and cultures of thousands of years past?

The "Church" (which is technically Roman Catholic) didn't have any power other than regionally until nearly 400 AD and it didn't have world reach until nearly a thousand years after Christ.

so opposed to some other religions it's fairly new then? hasnt had a chance to be told everywhere?

This thread has been automatically closed for length.