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So, im wondering what you guys think Goth really is. What does it mean to you to be goth (if you are.) To me it is an attitued. Its dark, seductive, mysterious decadence. Its beening what you really are inside, what other people want to be and are afraid to be.
Let me know what you think. I look forward to hearing from you all.

James

I think being goth is in your heart. It's how you feel inside, sometimes you wear it on your shoulder and let everyone see (wearing black, being morbid, welcoming death, etc), but all that is not necessary for one to be goth. It's in your heart, it's in your soul. We know what we are.

I agree with both of you.

To me goth is being yourself and not giving a shit what anyone else says about you

Gothic to me is not fearing death... and then living. You laugh in the face of death, to prove that you are alive.
Kinda like this thread... it's been burried so many times it seams to have lost all fear of dying.
*chuckles*

To me it seems that "Goth" has lost its original term. It was not that long ago a thread such as this was opened and in the sandbox. The original meaning of Goth is from a group of people that only wore black to hide from their enemies and because they only attacked at night. Unfortunatley it is very early in the morning and my brain will not pull names or dates, but I will attempt to find both of those once the sun has has come up and Ive had my first cup of coffee. Now in modern times, goth has taken on many different forms and meanings to people. There are people in the world that beileve if you are a goth then you only worship satan. Which I am pretty sure we all know isnt true. To me goth is a symbol of my freedom to look how I choose. I am more a punky goth, but all lables thrown aside I'm just me. I wear black because I like it. lol. :)

It has indeed lost it's original meaning. Much like the meaning of "vampire" it has been severely contorted.

People contort, people butcher, in the end most words lose their original meaning, this can be quite a shame.

modern "goth" is a fashion statement, not a personality type. I personally do not understand the mentality behind the whole "i am original, i don't conform yet I look like all my friends." thing Some might disagree, but that is how many see it, and most people grow out of it, though some don't. I myself prefer to wear black clothes because I think they look good, and I find most colors offensive to the eye lol, certainly not because I belong to any group.

I think goth is more of an attitude than anything, but I know a few that just say black is their favorite color and they dont like wearing other colors and people think they are goth simply for that reason which is rediculous.

i think goth is just a label we get put on us wer all just who we are at the end of the day

I've been thinking about this myself for a long time and I've finally decided that the simple answer is that it means different things to different people.
For me it is a lifestyle and way of thinking as well as the things I like. For others it's a fashion and some it's an occasional thing...
Was that any help?

its more about intrests and an aproach to life rather than a fashion although it all adds up...

A select group, yes. But, the majority of people that call themselves goth? it tends to be and I hate to say it, a phase. It would be great if we could romanticise it that way but you have to take into account every teen mall rat who has a group of friends who got them into it. It adds up, not as many people are serious about it like that.

Goth, in the ancient times, represented a word for distruction, rebellion, devastation... it represented the unknown, the new and feared...but it seems that somewhere along the history, it represented a step back...
Goth showed the people that the unknown doesn't have to be feared, that the new can be understood, that destruction can be overcomed... It was, in the end, a wake up call...
Sure, it was dark, fearsome, rebel... but you have to look past all those things...
What is Goth for me? It is the power to see things what they really are, it is the quality to understand life and apreciate all its little gifts, it is the way of standing up and saying: I am different and I want to evolve...
Being depressed, anti-social, dressing in black is not goth; it is just a misunderstanding, it is depression and illusion...nobody cares; what matters is the Goth inside you, the being that wants to bring something new into this world, something that people can learn about... it is the way of making a difference and to show some creativity...

Gothic was a movement that started in the late seventies around the same time as the punk scene. Centering around horror themes, dark music and strange fashion. It was a very underground thing to begin with and your original goths are all in their mid twenties to late thirties.
Ironically enough you will not find many who seem to fit into the subculture perfectly labeling themselves as such.
Goth became popularized in the mid nineties by the media and major corporations as a new way to sell products to the discontented youth in America.

My own opinion is yes goth is a label. If you choose to associate yourself with a label there is nothing wrong with that. We have no right to tell others what to think about themselves. My only suggestion would be to never let a label you have given yourself define you completely.

I do agree that goth should not be described as a type of personality. Morbid would make more sense as a discriptive.

I like that...

"I am not Gothic; I'm Morbid and Creepy."

I also think that being goth come from your heart.

Goth is nothing but the way people perceive us.

being who you are. true to yourself.

i dont think people should be stereotyped but i think goth is basically a love of darkness and decadence.

goth is a way of thinking and a way of like we express our selves through our music,art and poems

If ya have to ask then u arent..its what u are..I was "goth" before goth was goth...lol

Plus. I hate lables

It is a way to express yourself in many different ways. Not all goths are depressed or wear black. An incredible way for self expression and letting a part of you free.

lables dont mean a damn thing, u r what u r

BloodyMarie, I would have to agree with your statement completely. Although, I would agree with the original assessment because that is what it has developed into. Many individuals don't know the background behind it and are just using it as a method of self-expression. There is nothing wrong with it; however, I would never let it define me. When I was in High School I always dressed in all black. However, I never defined myself as goth in nature or practice.

Goth to me is someone who is emo, but wears cool cloths and has all kinds od wierd pierceings.

I think that Goth is the way that you feel, and some show it in there expression, the clothing they wear , art, music,,, a self expression of sorts.

it is a mind set most wear dark cloths but not all of us do.

Well, the term "Goth" as it apply's to modern society was derived from the eighties to describe bands such as Siouxsie & The Banshees.
Today it is applied to things that don't even relate to the original subculture. In my opinion, I feel that there really isn't a need for the term "Goth". There are better ways to describe yourself than such a vague term.

It's that delightfully delicious desire in your heart you get from the bloody kisses of another....

*Bloody kisses*

Being Goth and what A goth is now is a cultural statement of who you are.

I am a goth have been for many years. I identify with the lifestyle I don't always go around wearing black.

Gothic fashion well fashion as a whole is up to you as the person not the colors you wear or don't wear. A goth mind set and well who you relate to I think is now the basis for being a goth, yes it is was a movement that started way back a splinter group of another subculture.

there is alot i agree with on those who have already posted..... i believe we are who we are we have a gothic fashion and are labeled by most goths.... but i think we are who we are and its what is in the heart that matters.......

Goth..hmmm. I think its different for everyone..for me, its a state of mind, a way of thinking. I dont think you necessarily have to wear all dark colors to be goth. Its a different way of looking at life..others shun the dark and eerie-we revel in it. Its a way of carrying yourself..not being afraid of things that go bump in the night. We befriend those things. But I have found most goths I know to be the nicest,most accepting people I have ever met. Goth just is.

Goth is in fact an attitude but more important it is an entire lifestyle. It is a disreguard of societal norms and the freedom to be the person you wish The most distingushing attribute of being Goth is the embracing of the dark recesses of the human psyche.

In my opinion Goth is a state of mind. It's a way to let people know that you are going to be yourself whether anyone approves or not. That you arent afraid to express yourself.

i have been told by most people who look down on us, that its nothing more than a fashion statement and that we are just trying to get attention. but goth musicians go way back to the 50's in motorcycle gangs, i may be wrong but they sorta dressed that way? i guess i dress the way i do because i like the dark colors and i love the goth music that is out there, and we can relate to it.

The dictionary gives various definitions of "goth". Such as: barbarian, ill-breed person lacking culture or refinement, or a style of rock music, noted especially for somber or ethereal tones and lugubrious lyrics.

But, I believe that "goth" is something that only each person can define for themselves. It's not just in your clothing or look. It's not just in your beliefs. If you are "goth" you know what it is.

id have to say goth is in your heart and soul, meaning, just because you wear all black all the time doesent mean your are goth it just means you like black clothes and wear them all the time, i say it has to be who you are, if your goth then thats you and you know that.

leaving aside the historical context for a moment - goth is a style which grew from punk, and was also called new romantics. it's a lifestyle, not just a matter of musical taste and is still very closely associated with punk fashions and lifestyle. it is heavily influenced by horror and what is termed gothic fantasy. the cultural movement challenged tradtional gender stereotypes - many male goths wear makeup, hair gel, and dress in a way considered by mundane society as feminine, though they may well be entirely heterosexual. though much of the alternative lifestyle emphasises darkness, this is mostly just an aesthetic tendency and not shared by all. not all goths prefer the dark, not all goths wear black, and most goths will smile and laugh from time to time. though it is not entirely linked to musical taste, most goths prefer metal or new wave, and few goths prefer disco, rap, or country and western - though i am partial to a bit of folk. it is however, compulsory to dance the time warp, and join in the lyrics when watching rocky horror show.

yea actually you have a good point schweinhagen. my brother inlaw wears black clothing 90% of the time but is surely not goth, nor does he even listen to music thats associated with goth. he told me he wears all black cause it makes him look thinner and if he gets dirty he doesnt have to worry about trying to get a stain out.. does anyone have an idea of what style of clothing the ancient or so to speak victorian gothics used to wear? and im sure its nothing at all similiar to what we wear in this day and time

Goth is whatever you want it to be. :)

Well this presents a very good discussion, because technically "Goth" is a type of person. And their language was Gothic. They were an East-Germanic Tribe that was became extinct. But in terms of how the 21st century uses it, it's really to be in touch with the darker side of life, wether you present that to the world by wearing all black, and listening to that "type" of musik is your choice. I myself believe I am gothic. But I do not always wear black but I am very into the darker genres and subgenres of the musik.
As for what the victorian goths wore, basically what the victorian era was just in darker colours. Not always black but dark blues, greens, purples [if you were of status] and deep reds, and burgundys.
Hope that was helpful to someone.

In my opinion "Goth" is a state of the heart. The freedom to be whom you choose to be. To have the open mind to accept people for who they are. The whole "Goth look" is an expression of the freedom we have embraced. We show the rest of the chained world that there is life out there and we are living it!

Goth started a long,long time ago..where an army was named the goth.people that killed and laughed at death and wore the bones of the dead on them..dipped in silver.they had no mercy,no fear..loved death..darn and more then mideveil fighters.Someone told me about this so long ago..I kinda forgot alot of things about them,maybe someone on here will know of them.
Goth,has truly became just a trend to many people.
To be a real goth..you must be boren into it.

necroletariat - no it isn't. sorry, but i get really anoyed when ayone uses that phrase. i know some meanings can change, or be quite vague, but the idea that anyone can redefine ay word to mean what they want it to mean - that's just pre alice in wonderland. it totally defeats the purpose of language. its wooly thinking. can i call myself a vegetarian? they say you are what you eat - i eat cows - they are vegetarians, ergo - i am a vegetarian.

I always wonder why people call it Goth. To me it's just a state of mind everyone knows what they are or aren't. Really Goth is just another way to label a group or person(s). Like prep,jock,slut,hore,etc. you get my point.

goths are fun. goths are delicate. goths are people who have had enough of what the fuzzy bunny population are on about. goths are fantasy pure and love it. goths like to belive and make belive. goths are people who have often been hurt or have seen pain. goths are many things but goths are not dark !!!! goths are just people like every one else

To me it's simply a label describing someone drawn to the "darker" aspects of life. It's apparent in their thoughts and desires much more so than their clothing or hair-dye...

well if you want to be techincal about it its a post punk era and punk was about freedom of speach and insite into what the system was imposing on us. so its a growth from that. the dark imaging and music and cloths are just a fassion I would think. but the voice is as punk as ever.

well, I don't think the question was posed because they were curious as to what goth meant, I think it was posed to get different peoples responses. I think it is an interesting question but a loaded one. I suppose technically goth refers to the gothic period of time, but it is true that there are imitations of goth and, and also gothic genres as well as one can have a gothic state of mind. Without sounding pat or cliche I suppose one could say that goth is whatever the person that feels goth wants it to be.

Mose people I know think of a goth person as a person who wears nothing but black. I know some preps that wear nothing but black!! I tell you, my opinion on goth is: I do not think it is a fashion, and it does not necessarily hang on what you wear. It is your life style. The way you think of life. Now, yes, people mistake goth for just wearing black because all of these goth people are in this life-style because they are depressed, or something is wrong with them mentally or emotionally, causing them to think nothing but dark and depressing thoughts, resulting in wearing black...

Did you get all of that?

I see 'Goth' as a broad generalization for many different groups of people. The common vein through all this is an inclination towards darker things (gasp and shock!) That’s it. Not very exciting I suppose but look at all the interesting verities of people that come from this.

goth is art what u do wear and see

"Mose people I know think of a goth person as a person who wears nothing but black. I know some preps that wear nothing but black!!"

An easy explanation might go something like this, not all people who wear black are goth but all goths wear black....like how not all DVRs are tivos but all tivos are DVRs...lol so maybe that wasn't an easy explanation. Well that at least goes for the mainstream goths, you don't see them wearing yellow and pink.

Not all goths wear black... i wear some black... but mostly I wear red. The ones that wear pink and yellow are often Gravers. Then there are the Loligoths and all the rest. There is a common Macabre/Morbid theme, and there is a common not like everyone else theme. Nearly all the goths I know try to be origional. To an outsider it may seam like there is a uniform, but there are subtleties in the common theme. I know one girl who wears an orange A&W retro type waitress dress refularily... Ruby Gloom style looks, sXe tape etc. Goth is not a clothing, dancing or Music style... allthough there are Genres.
Goth is not Gothic architectural style of the dark ages, although the romantigoths often emulate that style and it is a classic gothic look and a place where many begin. Gothic culture borrows heavily from Film Noir and early silent film. Early film would seam to be actually the strongest influence... The Goths of the 4th century inspired the Gothic Architecture and style of the 14th century which inspired silent film of the 1920's which inspired Modern Goth. Goth is romanticised macabre and Edgy... It's learning to laugh and revell at things that others find disturbing. It is living life... and realizing that living life on the edge is not really as narrow as everyone makes it out to be; but that if you are not then you are taking up too much room.

"Goth is not a clothing, dancing or Music style... allthough there are Genres."

It certainly is for many. In the end it is just another label to put on yourself, just another group of people you hang out with. And yes, most people that are into it, with some exceptions, 10 years later are no longer into it. Not that this is a bad thing but it is the truth for many, why anyone would call themselves a goth or a punk or a prep is beyond me, be something of your own creation.

Everyone is so anti-lable. That is so illogical... it is like being anti-art. There is nothing new under the sun, just different ways of combining and seeing things.
Sometimes you lead, sometimes you follow, and on occasion you think your on a path that only you have been on.
A lable is a way others see you... get used to it... it is when you allow others to write your story for you that there is a problem. The lable itself is not wrong, it is a way of other people trying to comprehend you. I think it is far worse to be ignored. Like the bus driver, or the guy behind the counter, or the person you are ignoring while you are talking on your f***ing cell phone, when you should be connecting with them. I'd rather be called a Chachie, Tourest, Wanker, Wigger, Wasp, or Geezer, than be not labled (ie reecognized) at all.

illogical? no just an opinion.

how about idiot for a label then.. And
Karnstein, I love your answer.

It is a way to express yourself in many different ways. Not all goths are depressed or wear black.Its an incredible way for self expression. It also lets a part of you free.

Goth to me is a symbol to be free and choose how ya want to look!!!

Your absolutely right... it was a last second decision to change the word and I regret it. I'm a lateral thinker... that makes me the illogical one.

goth is a state of mind, a feeling... not like some of the ones i've seen standing in front of hot topic dressed as chained and painted up as possible just so they can be different and supposedly missunderstood.. nothing bugs me more than those people who try to act all depressing ALL the time... just cause you have an appreciation for the darker sides of life does not mean you have be a depressing and lifeless fool. look at the tales of old voctoian vampires..they didn't lock themelves in a dark room so they can brood at how much life sucks.. they had grand parties, elegant ballroom events.. they enjoyed themselves. not make themselves and others depressed as much as possible..but that's just an opinion of mine

Personal from watching other people. I don't think Goth is anything its just for the fashion they wear. A person can Gothic but that them, and it can change slightly from person to person. I don't dress goth, but I'm indiviual but I have more of a Gothic personality. Unlike some 'Goths' I met who only wear the clothes to shock or because they like them.

goth is actully an christain religion of long along and the clothes they wore was grey not al black

Deathssiren... The Goths where a 16th century Germanic tribe, not a form of Christianity.

Ultimately, "What is Goth?" is a question I am getting really sick of.

Im agreeing with Echo.

Except for one thing. Its also a form of architecture. Yay for ornate archways.

Anyway i have this saying..

Agreeing with you there as well... we live in a culture where we feel constantly forced to define ourselves, but that isn't enough for us anymore, now we have to define the pigeon-hole that we try to force ourselves into?

I might wear a lot of black... but I'm NOT a goth... I'm a Debbie... and I would rather be that than any of this other rubbish.

Pigeon holing. Its amazing how we as humans need so many sub-cultures to define the second of our existence at that particular moment.

Goth, Loli, Greaser, Motorhead, Prep, Jock..... this started long ago and it will never change.

I think ill just sit back with my popcorn and Jager and enjoy my pigeon hole of "non-recovering alcoholic"

It's an attitude and a way of life

one thing i have never done is classify myself.. i am not "goth" in what people around here consider.. cause i don't dress in all black have collars or whatever fashion statment it has become.. not a prep by any means,not a redneck, or a suit.. i simply live my life, comfortable with my choices. and happy with my path.

I believe that goth is just a state of mine. Somewhat dark and twisted.. Though many believe in the stereotypical goth, meaning they are very depressed, they always wear black, and they do their make up weird...

"Live in this world, but be not of it" is the phrase I will use to describe goth. The concept is abstract enough for everyone to make it their thing, but concrete enough so that others may latch on to it.

It really is hard to really be yourself in today's world. Society has always favoured one or two groups, true equality is elusive.

I consider myself goth, only as that is what I would be categorized as if I fully bought into what marketing executives are pitching at me.

The only thing I have truly bought into was perhaps the concept of beauty, but I have my own conclusions about such matters and it balances out perfectly.

goth is a lable put on us by those who don't understand and/or fear us it is a tittel that a few of us chose to not take as an insult but as a way to express our selfs unstead of just leting it make us mad we chose to embrase our differnces

being goth can be very many things. almost everybody has a sense of being goth they believe the same things that we do, but they are just to afraid to say anything. if you welcome death, listen to heavy metal music, or like blood and gore that does not mean that you are goth. you yourself has to think of you being goth not what other people think.

goth is a lifetsyle how people act and feel!

In my opinion Goth is a lifestyle its the way u express yourself to others and its how u portray yourself to others and yet it is also consider a clothing style Goth is also an art one of the most beautiful arts there are so really asking what goth is is a matter of others opinions so u will never get the real answer

I think true goths just have it in them. U can display it or u can just live ur life differently by being openminded, dark, and mysterious. I am a fellow goth and being goth is beautiful and exciting. I live life as I chose too. I scare ppl sometimes with my appearance if I chose to go out in complete "goth attire". Being goth can also be very sensual. I am also in to bd/sm and I am very dark and universal. I spread myself everywhere and leave a print in everyone's mind when they see, talk to, or experience me.

To me it's simple. I'm myself no matter what, I dont care what other ppl say or think about me or my appearance. I am different by the standards of what normal is. I'm edgy, mysterious, talented and a dark way, and very into abnormal things.

I agree that it is pretty much simply a state of mind....there are so many different aspects/facets of "Goth"....it's hard to pinpoint it with a definition.

I will say this however...Dragoness....one cannot be born into it....you either are of this state of mind...or you aren't.

a goth is a many things. its a style, a music genra, an attitude, even a religon. the list goes on. goth can apply to anything. books and buldings for example.

It is the embrace of the darkness as a lifestyle.Contary to popular beliefs is not a stlye of music.

I agree also...you do not have to wear black clothing, and make-up, and such jewelry to be Goth....It is within your being..a feeling about life and death eternal...a part of ones self I might add.

goth is music and culture

loved the comment about the architecture.
To me, Goth anything means beautiful

Goth is in your heart.... The way that most show it is in personal or artisitic expression...Paintings, drawings, music, physical , several different ways.

i think its somebody who loves to stand out and isnt afraid to follow there own rules

It depends on what is meant by 'goth'.

The goth subculture is a contemporary subculture prevalent in many countries. It began in the United Kingdom during the late 1970s to early 1980s in the gothic rock scene, an offshoot of the post-punk genre. The goth subculture has survived much longer than others of the same era. Its imagery and cultural proclivities indicate influences from nineteenth century Gothic literature, mainly through horror movies. The goth subculture has associated gothic tastes in music and fashion. Gothic music encompasses a number of different styles. Common to all is a tendency towards a "dark" sound and outlook. Styles of dress within the subculture range from death rock, punk, androgynous, some Renaissance and Victorian style clothes, or combinations of the above, most often with black attire, makeup and hair.

The Goths were an East Germanic tribe who according to their own traditions left Scandinavia, settled close to the Vistula mouth (in present day Poland), and from the 2nd century settled Scythia, Dacia and Pannonia. In the 3rd and 4th centuries, they harried the Byzantine Empire and later adopted Arianism. In the 5th and 6th centuries, dividing into the Visigoths and the Ostrogoths, they established powerful follower-states of the Roman Empire in Iberia and Italy.

One did not (as you can see) come into being as an offshoot from the other. Rather they are the same word for different meanings.

Incidentally Gothic doesn't refer to either of these things rather it it conveyed the opposite of 'classical' or 'Roman'. That is where we get the Gothic novel, art and architecture.

being goth is expressing outwardly what you are feeling incide. and goth is in your heart.

so goddess, by what you are saying we could assume that is lke being gay or an artist .....etc.......expressing what you are inside and out???? Is that how you are putting it?

karnstein and LizSara: Wonderful posts, both thoughtful and useful in the response to the question.

Like 'vampire', 'goth' is an overused and misused label.

goth is a lifestyle

Goth to me is an additude. Its not the way you dress or the was you look. Hell you could dress in all white and still be goth. I only wear black cus it suits me and I like the way it feels.

Goth has alot of different meaning to alot fo different people...I learned this when I had to pull al presentation on it for a class I was taking. What we see now is a far cry from the original. Today Goth is an expression of many things, freedom to do what you wish being a main one.
Personally.....I hate labels and try my hardest not to use them. I am considered Goth by anyone who truely knows me and to all the rest that hold false ideas, they think that I am a satanist or something. Let them think what they will, it matters to me not.

like i've read before me.. goth has many meanings.. but to me.. goth is what i am inside and the true potential i have as a person... it is indeed the dark and seductive side of an individual and these are key factors for being a goth... prove me wrong but this is just my opinion...

Pff, I'm so goth. Even my chocobos are black.

Goth is one of the deepest lifestyles there is. There are only deep ppl who are truly goth. They have talent and inspirational thoughts and sometimes experience the worst kind of living which gives them that light to pass themselves through words songs and pics.

This thread has been automatically closed for length.