The Ultimate Vampire Resource and Directory

There comes a time in every person’s life when they should take a step back and evaluate their lives or even their own beliefs. A few things have been going on this week that have caught my attention and compelled me into writing this thread.

Firstly, I have a good friend I work with, his daughter is 11 years old. She has recently gone to school and told a few people that there is a voice telling her to take a knife, stab herself in the chest and kill herself. She is now seeing a child psychologist to find out what exactly is going on with her. This is a pretty serious situation. The first thing that came to mind with everyone was that she was just seeking some kind of attention. The second thing that comes to mind is the type of movies she’s being allowed to watch. This brings me to my second subject at hand…

I was discussing with another co-worker today about how in this day and age a lot of kids are not being taught the difference between reality and fantasy, not using common sense and logic so to speak. Movies, books, and even the video games being made now do have some affect on the “weak-minded”. I’ve seen a lot of people here on VR that claim to be vampires, werewolves/lycans, etc. That’s all fine and dandy if you like to role play, there’s nothing wrong with that. I’m talking about those of you that actually THINK you’re a vampire or a werewolf/lycan, etc. and think you actually need blood and such to live.

Hey, I’ll even admit that I have LOVED stories and movies about vampires and werewolves since I was a child, hell, I even love to play the video games being made today, but I keep everything in perspective also and I KNOW it’s all just entertainment. I think that this subject is kind of getting out of hand in today’s world and children and even young adults are starting to get stuck in their own fantasy world and losing grip with reality.

A few questions for everyone to ponder on…

What happens when you take your fantasy world too far and someone gets hurt or possibly fatally injured in the process? As parents, when do we determine it’s time to have a talk with our children about the difference between reality and fantasy? As a friend or family member, when do we determine it’s time to step in and have a talk with a loved one before they wind up hurting themselves or possibly even others?

Please, DO NOT post a response to this thread if you plan on just being humorous or are just going to write a one sentence response just to get your posts score up as I will have a Dominar quickly delete your post. I’m looking for serious responses here, thank you.

It has already been asked NOT to post non-sense.. so don't. All of it will be deleted.

I believe that it is our responsibility as the "adults" who have been through school and know how hurtful people can be to educate the youth of our little society of "goths", "emo's", and "vampires". If they cannot look to us who can the look to, assuming that their parents are unwilling to educate them. You don't go the the butcher dressed like a cow and expect to get out of there right, so why do the kids feel the need to go into a dangerous situation dressed like a comic book character?

I am not so sure I like your tightly defined reality. I think that a parent should not be responaible for even attempting to define tehir childs reality. It is however the parents responability to teach them a code of values.

If a child has a well defined value system that works well with the rest of society; it matters not one whit how fantastic their reality is.

I started as early as I could telling my twelve year old son ( his age now, not when I started) the difference between reality and fantasy. I let him know that if someone dies on television that the character the actor or actress was playing was the one who died, not the real person. I made sure he knew that death was permanent away from tv and movies. That is why some children have played with guns with horrific results. They will see an actor die by a gunshot in one movie, then see him alive and well in another movie. They do not think death is permanent.

Some people prefer to live in a fantasy world because reality is too much for them to handle or they do not want to face reality. They can determine the difference between reality and fantasy, but choose not to. Those who cannot determine the difference as adults will find themselves diagnosed with a mental illness.

Oops...

Furthermore,

If, as a parent, you are awaiting a specific time to teach your child values... you are X years too late.

I agree have a good imagination or sense of fantasy is a good thing, if you know it is fantasy. However there are alot of people who dont know the difference and that is where the problems start.

Kglitterous,

That's exactly my point though with the questions I asked. You wrote:

"It is however the parents responability to teach them a code of values."

I agree and with that in mind, answer the questions at the end of my post.

its up to the parents to help their children and guide them , we need to watch our children .. what they watch .. what they listen to who they hang out with.. and hope as they grow older insturct them in what is right and wrong and hope our children heed our words and knowledge .. course they will do as they want anyways especially as teens but with our guidence and showing them through our actions they will hopefully makes good decisions if not have them know we will be there for them no matter what

It sounds like a very sad case.. I guess she might be looking for attention but I doubt it.. A normal child at the onset of puberty knows the difference between fantasy and reality..Although she might be young, she might be showing signs of mental illness such as Schizophrenia.. On the bright side there are cases of Schizophrenic episodes that last only a short time... I have read that most people with Schizophrenia start to see symptoms before the age of 21...

Your friends daughters problem is probably mental, and with parents no matter what they say or what they teach teenagers are going to do whatever they want to i mean a parent can tell a teen right from wrong but that is all that they are going to do because when it comes down to it teens are going to do whatever they want...

i agree you need to teach them at a young age the difference but i have heard of somecases that the person no matter what they have tried can't tell the difference. i have heard of that happing to people who play games that get trapped in that world and can't bring themselfs back.

It is a interesting subject, although we do need to pay attetion to our young ones now days because ties have changed and its a totaly different day and age.
There aint nothing wrong with somone believing anything. By down grading people especially our young ones it what causes a lot of problems and causs low self esteem.
Something a serious as the 11 year old girl is troubling and needs to be dealt with. More people just need to express the difference between reality and fantasy. Whatever they choose to do after that is their business.

i have four kids two are already old enough to know the difference. The two younger ones aren't but i make sure that they know that most of what they see on tv is not real. they understand about horror movies and such. I make them understand that people don't generally go out in a mask and kill people and once you are dead you are dead you dont come back.

I think we're all a little deranged. Beliefs will vary. If nobody is being hurt in the process, then let people believe what they want to believe. But if people are getting hurt, the believer or anyone else, or if the serious potential is there, then attention needs to be brought to it.

DaQueenOfNight:

I believe self esteem is not bestowed on someone by what you say to them... quite the opposite.

Self Esteam is aquired in only one way... through good deeds. Self worth can ONLY be increased by doing things you feel are worthwhile doing (of your own volition.) Thus if you feal that paying bills is worthwhile this elevates you self worth each time you do it... if you pay bill sbecause you must... it tears your self worth down, and you become more dependant on what others think of you.

The same applies to all activities... there must always be a choice, and we must encourage good choices (without being overbearing.

That said... there is a trick that can assist anyone in need.

Strength to do the right thing can be borrowed through ritual (ie going to church, paying your bills, going to work... whatever;) but it becomes nessesary at some point (if you desire self esteam to develope) to convert ritual to a task of desire. This is why there is unhappyness in the world... to many people who believe they have no choice, or act out of ritual only... it does not facilitate self esteam.

ok let me say this do you think the fact that the columbine shooting is now being turned into a video game helps the subject at all i am a firm beleiver in treat others as you wish to be treated but to have to kids shoot up a school is not acceptable nor is making a video game about it

They're making a video game from the Columbine shooting in Colorado? Now that is just asinine.

No, it doesn't help matters much at all! I don't think they should be doing something like that.

It is my belief as a parent that it was my responsibility to instill a sense of reality versus fantasy from the beginning of my daughters life. As her mother I guided her to understand that when she watched television it was not reality...it was my job.

I have seen situations as a teacher where I have seen fantasy go too far. Many children do not have a sense of what fantasy really is. As posted eariler, many children do not believe dead is dead because they don't die on tv.

Excellent topic. Thank you for opening such an interesting thread.

It is never advantageous to harm another... EVER.

You should teach this every day to every person you meet... in deed and action.

Of course this is quite difficult in the sodom and gomorah we have created, but it must start somewhere. Random acts of Kindness and senseless acts of Beauty is a nice start.

Crisis is always opportunity, you need to differenciate between who is having the crisis though... which of you is having the learning experience and taking advantage of the opportunity, and which is the instrament of learning.

If a person is in crisis it is an Ideal time for a change... "It is only when it is dark that we can see the stars that guide us."

I do not think that any person goes from one frame of mind to another like a bowling ball jumping lanes and mowing down innocent students at tehir school... it takes a lot of people with failed awareness for this to occur.

I am not saying you shoud let the kid with the automatic weapon shoot people... just that a whole lot of choices have been denied a person to reach that stage.

I am of the mind that given the right to choose... people choose good. It is only when choices become so very limited that people act out and do "evil." People do evil because it is the lowest common denominator... it is the fundimental God given right of free will, and if it is the only choice one has... it WILL be chosen... because choice is a need as great as any other.

I have children of my own and I am happy I had the time to teach them the difference between reality and fiction, I knwo not every parents were lucky like me, but still, I kwno they did their best, so no blame, the thing is that the sociaety dont help, they create so muhc fiction and non realist lifes, path and teaching , I mean its not just the games, and the book, or the movies, it the society itself. Its a constant pounding of fiction the children have to deal with. so its hard. the seociety has to wake up and clear things up.
I mean how many muci video that shows shooting as innnocent, sort of a cool thing and all, then reality happens kids shoot kids..its not cool anymore and there is no reset button or spare life..its death.

we have lived her on the earth long enough to learn what to teach our children about reality and fantacy but there are also things in this world we can not explain

I am one who day dreams a lot.

I've always been like this,since I was little.

However I was always able to know the difference between reality and fantasy.There's nothing wrong with finding a refuge in imagination,the problem happens when the person starts to believe that their own fantasy is real.

I think that parents should listen to what's their kid's fantasy dreams and teach them the difference between reality and fantasy.

As for hurting others,that comes from the values,which not always are influenced by the parents,but the parents should always be aware of what their kids are doing.

Who is to say that reality is indeed better than fantasy? If it was all that good, there would be no books, no movies, no TV shows, no games. Nothing which would distract you from the world, as it is, in front of you, right now.

Personally I would reject that reality and substitute my own fantasy any day of the week. And I'm yet to harm anyone because of that.

That's not to say however that there aren't individuals who would harm others but I would hesitate to say that is because they are living in a fantasy world. There are many reasons why people hurt other people. Escapism is only one of them.

I've seen and heard this time and time again through out my life. People, usually the mentally unstable/weak, the drug induced, or the very young. This ranges from kids catching things on fire because they saw it on Beavis and Butthead, to a little kid trying to pull a wrestling move on his sister. Now I think it is very important for the development of a kids imagination to have some of these things, but I also agree that they need to be taught the difference between reality and fantasy. Some things that kids try to do aren't fantasy, like stunts...professional wrestling, etc. Yes, most of this stuff is staged and acted out, but the kid doesn't know that...nor does the child know that it takes YEARS of practice to learn how to do such things without injuring or killing themselves or others. As far as games, movies etc, being "too real" yes, they are ultra realistic now days, and they are only going to get more realistic...that is why they are rated and maybe people shouldn't let their kids play these games or watch these movies before they are in that age group. All that being said, we all make up our own fantasy lives in our own little way...it is a coping mechanism our brains do for us. As long as we don't let it get too far away from us, we should be fine.

Some people do blur the lines between fantasy and reality but for the most part those are the ones who should be on medication of some sort. But at the same time there could be so many different types of realities that one person who thinks they are right thinking it is a fantasy could just be closed minded and not see that it could very well be a reality just depends on the person I think.

ok, so on that point. My brother is a hippie, he believes that things he sees while in his drug induced state are real and that other people just have not the state of enlightenment to see and know what he now believes he knows. Now, in the past, I took an insane amount of mushrooms, acid, E, pot, etc, and I saw some really crazy stuff. But I had enough sense, even when rocked out of my mind, to know that none of it was real. I don't do drugs anymore, because they seem to have that effect on people...dementia, delusions, and other things starting with a d and other letters that pretty much mean your brain doesn't work right because of all the junk in it. Hell, even enough caffeine can alter your perception of reality.

It's sad how some parents don't seem to care.
Not too long ago I was at a "friends" and her and her sister were completely acting up, smacked the crap out of me randomly causing me to scream (it was the middle of the night) and her mother was like.. getting MAD at me for her daughter's actions and thought I was lying.

it's not just kids, and it's not just horror fantasy. there are a lot of adults too who believe what they see on TV or read in the tabloids is true. many actors who play the villains in soap operas have said they get hate mail (usually addressed to the character they play) and even get physically assaulted by fans of the show who cannot tell the difference between reality and fiction.

i think most parents assume their kids know the difference - it's not something most people teach. and what happens in a family where the parents don't know the difference?

I agree, and along with the mentally weak/disturbed/challenged, I failed to mention the emotional equivalents, the ignorant (either by choice or simply lack of knowledge) and those that believe in pretty much anything they hear without actually doing any kind of research. Very true though, that is a great point, there are many adults who also do not seem to know the difference between reality and fantasy. Mostly Jerry Springer fanatics.

As for children I think the resposibilty is with parents first and foremost.

As for adults, well I know that it drives some people to distraction when they read posts where members claim to be 'real' vampires/otherkin etc.

When you get right down do it, who knows what circumstances influence our fantasies ?

We are all different, and responsible for our own sanity....or otherwise.

I agree that it is the parent's job to teach their children the difference between reality and fantasy. It is also the parent's job to teach morals. Some people will have mental problems that make it impossible for them to know the difference. Again, as I said in my last post some will retreat into a fantasy world, because their real life experience is too much for them to handle.

Whoever the company is that is making a video game out of the Columbine shooting should be boycotted. That is just sick. Parents that buy that game should be investigated. Or if not investigated slapped in the head for being stupid.

A lot of great responses, thank you.

I tend to agree that first and foremost parents should be responsible for teaching their children the difference between reality and fantasy. However, I for one, know how difficult this task can be and 90% of the time it is definately easier said than done.

If we could see the signs early, then maybe we can start seeking help for others that need it. Just asking a few simple questions could be a start just to see where their mindset is, I'm not saying throw them into a psych ward right away, just a little talk is only what some children/young adults need and they'll figure the rest out on their own. While others will need convincing.

As far as the columbine shooting game, they have already made one apparently. You can look up the game by doing a search on the web using the keywords "Columbine shooting video game".

I too think that a game like this should be protested against. What kind of message are we sending our young ones by allowing such a video game to be made and sold to the public?

but who determines what is fantasy? i once heard of an entire country who believed in an invisible man that nobody has seen, living in the sky (they read about it in an old book), and is supposed to own the entire world and everything in it, because apparently, he made everything. so strong was this fantasy, that it was actually illegal to claim that it was not true - even though there was no evidence to show it was true, and lots of evidence to show that things happened another way.

did you ever tell your children that Santa would bring them presents at Xmas if they are good? at what age did you decide it was time to tell them there is no Santa? or did they find out from other kids at school, or an older sibling? what was their reaction? did they start to wonder what else you told them is untrue?

There are a lot of people that have very compelling reasons to believe the Moon landing was faked. the fact is, we live in a world of marvels, where it seems almost anything is possible, and the only way of knowing whether a TV program is a work of fiction or a documentary / historical re-enactment is by the cast list and a narrator declaring something to be based on true events or not. credibility is frequently tested and stretched.

There was one case in Australia recently of two teenage girls who followed through a suicide pact. It is sad to see such loss at such a young age. Unfortunately it seems to be coming more and more common in modern society. Will be interesting to see where society goes to once these kids become the next generation.

you know though i agree its the parents responsiblity to teach them that but i also believe as a parent myself that some parents now days just don't care what they teach their kids and i think that it is very sad

If they aren't taught the correct lesons fby the parents and relatives early in life and as they develop then they are left to try and gain an understanding through television, movies, and video games. Which definitely not the right messages for kids.

I believe as a parent it is your responsibility from day one to teach children the difference between reality and fiction. There is no set time or age because each child is different. A lot of this is about parents being INVOLVED. Children who have a sense of well being know that they are loved. This doesn't mean being breathing down their necks 24/7. It means letting them have the freedom appropriate for their age, knowing where they are, who they're with and when they'll be home. It's being available, answering their questions, even the ones we don't feel their ready to know. If they feel safe they won't go about attention seeking in a negative fashion.

The time to intervene is when we believe that person may become a danger to themselves or others. It may be as simple as a kind word or asking what's truly bothering them. Negative or violent behavior is often just a scream for attention.

I do believe that the responsibility for teaching the distinction between fantasy and reality lies with the parents / guardians of children and it must begin at a young age.

Today's advances in the "reality" level of movie, TV and game special effects helps to blur the line between fantasy and reality. When I was a kid, I didn't need my Mom to tell me that a Coyote couldn't REALLY send away for a jet pack from the Acme Company in order to chase a Road Runner. The true to life simulations of violence now on TV and in games is not as clear cut.

I recall when my daughter was young. She refused to go in the bath or shower alone, as she was convinced that "Murderers" would climb in the bathroom window to get her. (The window was about 2ft square and on the 2nd story of our house). In addition, she thought "Space Aliens" would come out of the drain to abduct her. It took a lot of talking with her about the differences between what was on TV and what happens in real life for her to get over this.

It is not healthy for anyone over the age of 10 or so to believe thay really are a (werewolf, vampire, ancient being, super hero etc). This can only set them up for ridicule and potential violence when others do not believe in their fantasy realm.

The problem is that once grown past puberty, it is very difficult to disuade these individuales from their beliefs. As they were not taught properly as children, the natural fantasies of the young mind have turned into denial of reality and mental illness in an adult.

i believe as parents the moment our children are born we should teached them the sense of reality and fantasy and morals. Children are only sponges and they absurb what they see and it helps creat their personality

Even if that school is no more than the school of life. Telling is only part of the solution, showing is much more important. You know the old saying, "monkey see, monkey do." It's how we learn when we are young. Setting a positive example is the first step to instilling a positive moral code.

The little girl's scenario appears to me to be an attempt (not necessarily deliberately contrived) to assume mastery/control of her life... by creating a void of panic and disbelief around her she has regained some measure of control of her life... the sad thing is that the turtle-neck psycho-nazis will probably respond with medication and indoctrinating dogma to rob her (albeit with the best of intentions) of that control... people embrace fantasy... and religion... and ritual to regain a sense of personal self-determination... like the chinese kid was doing when he shot up his classmates.... the way to tackle a retreat into fantasy is to create room to advance back into reality... this is the danger of the web generation... as they embrace a withdrawal into a world of their own creation... instead of teaching social skills and compromise they learn to shun others and do their own thing regardless of the impact on the wider world....

Karnstein,

I see where you were going with your last few posts, but I think using Santa was a bad example...

It doesn't take a rocket scientist from NASA to figure out that Santa wasn't real as a child. Children see their parents as well as other family members bringing in presents and putting them away under the tree, not Santa.

As far as the "country" believing in an invisible man, well, I've never heard of this. One would think that if the WHOLE country believed in it, that would've been a worldwide subject, no? But, just because I've never heard of it doesn't mean that it wasn't true at one point and time either.

I think there is a vast difference between innocuous fantasy beliefs of young children (i.e. Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, Easter Bunney) and harmfull destructive fantasy beliefs (You can walk down the street with a machine gun killing people, get killed yourself and the "reset" and all the people you killed are back again in the next attempt at the "round")

The determining factor is when do you infor the child that either thing is just not real? A 5 year old can safely believe in Santa or the Tooth Fairy, but if they were to find a gun, they better know it's serious as a heart attack.

Very good point KCRC, thank you.

I think that is where the vast majority of movies and games being made come in also.

As someone from a previous post has already pointed out, kids will see somone gunned down in a movie and the person winds up living or gets up and walks away, then they see that same person in another movie so the kids think, hey, he's ok, getting shot isn't all that bad.

I've noticed a lot of kids learning early about guns and how to shoot them. Father's will take their children out hunting at an early age. The upside to this is that children learn about how deadly guns can be at an early age. The downside..... the children know how to use them.

I think the case you describe is schizophrenia.
Loosing contact with reality.
This is not a joke and it is a good thing that the little girl have professional help.
Maybe it is an incipient form and will pass.

Have you seen "A beautyful mind"?
It`s a nice(?) movie!

We as a society send our children mixed messages. Believe in Santa.. but not vampires.. the tooth fairy is real.. but not ghosts. Yes I do understand the difference but in teaching the difference between real and made up it does not help a child to be told some things do not exist and then later to find out that some things your parents told you were real are not.

It can and does cause a child to question the other things you said were or were not real. I am not in any way saying we should not let our kids have Santa and the like.

Parents need to help their children understand believing in anything is fine. Believing in vampires is not what causes kids to go out and hurt others. People.. not just parents... missing signs that the child is troubled... and people generally forcing kids to be lil adults and not kids seems to be leading to alot more of the kinds of actions we all abhor.

I grew up believing in all the different kinds of supernatural things. I have never harmed or hurt anyone. Saying I thought I was a vampire is an EXCUSE not the reason.

Sonneillon: I believe he was refering to God, I may be wrong... but I am fairly sure this is the invisible man he was refering to. Even if it is not... it is a good point about reality and perception.

KCRC: I see your point about fear and reality; I had presumed that he was speaking of fantasy, which I consider to be positive constructs, and not fears and negative constructs which have as much influence over us as "positive" constructs of reality.

There is no reality, reality is simply how you percieve the world, and all of us have a different POV. Who is to say that my (although I don't) believing myself to be a Vampyre (or Goth, or Republican, or Christian) aren't positive realities.

We all have F'd views of the world. I'd rather have a Maori, or Toltec Dreamtime view of the world than a Christian one, although in essence they are not so divergent.

Fear is an altogether different beast for the foundation of reality. One could almost say that awakening is the removal of fear. Fear eliminates choice, thus reduces self esteam, limits perception (ie reality) and awakening. Fear can only be concoured by facing it and it is best achieved (as mentioned before) by borrowing strength from ritual; however the discarding of the ritual after the fear has been concoured so as not to become an appendix to our reality.

For ages people taught their children through fantasy~ and it worked. What is the big bad wolf after all? Fantasy does no damage at all.

The child could have started the first symptoms of Schizophrenia. They really do hear voices~ they really do hallucinate. My sister had this, as do many other people. It sounds like she is a poor sick, sad little girl and my heart goes out to her. She needs a real mediacal doctor. If someone says they are hearing voices they probably are.

Some of the earliest lessons we teach our children are myths and fantasies. Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, even the Boogie Man. And if we think about it even our religions and histories are based on the same types of ideas, myths and fantasies. The line between reality and fiction is so blurred that we even confuse our own pasts with what was and what we wanted it to be.

shadowfever you have a very good point but i still say as parents it is our resposiblity but then again i also think that sometimes even though we all have our different ways of raising kids that some people just don't care enough if that makes sence

if I say Zeus" what pops in ur head? or cupid"? or hercules".. ect,. for centuries we have told these stories..... how many are true??? we have people try'n to prove some of them were true... how many were "bedtime" stories created by a creative mother or father telling a story to get there child to sleep at night and the story carried over until it became myth??? in religion there are myths and stories as well... how many of them wee created to demonstrate a point of mind or personal belief so others could understand???
hmm moving on... people seing people that others dont see.... is this a story told to get attention?? could be... is this a "spirit" or "ghost" ... could be... I believe in the existence of realities beyond perceptual or intellectual understanding that are central to being and directly accessible by subjective experience(s) with that in mind I ask could zues or other "fictional" characters be real?? perhaps on another "plane" of reality.... I hope to all that read this that this opens your mind a bit to other possibilities...

my children are not allowed to watch graphically violent movies. i had the experience of movies sticking in my head for years, and years. so? i have also had the experience of psycosis. i was hallucinating things visually and auditorially(heard) i had an undiagnosed thyroid condition /and other things i won't go into. my chemestry was off. poor parenting was also a factor of my problem. stress didn't help either. thearapy helps and i take hormone replacement. life is good today.

actually, soneillon, a lot of parents do as my parents did - wait until we were asleep, and then sneak into the room and put the presents they have carefully hidden for the past month or so at the foot of the bed, in the pretense that santa did it - so a lot of kids are still believing in santa when they reach school age. as for the invisible man who lives in the sky - i suggest you google "god". in some parts of america, it is illegal to teach the theory of evolution because it contradicts some fairy tales. at least that is what i've heard - i may have been fooled by a common modern myth.

it is popular at the moment to blame vampire movies, or gothic culture when a young person has a mental breakdown of some kind. when i was a kid, people blamed comic books.

consensual reality is nothing more than what the majority of people perceive to be true. hundreds of years ago, the world was flat and the sun and moon revolved around the earth - and only the delusional saw things different.

contrary to what his parents said, my cousin did not try to hang himself when he was a kid because he thought he was batman - he did it because he was depressed and couldnt take the pressure he was under.

maybe the little girl who hears voices is trying to get attention, or maybe she has seen too many TV shows, or played too many computer games. but i think it is far more likely that she is schizophrenic, and would have the same delusions if she was brought up Amish.

Well, I don't need to google anything that's referring to "god", trust me. This just goes to show the variety of how people are taught differently around the world I guess. I have never, ever heard of "god" being referred to as an "invisible man", it's always just been "god", that's why I asked in the first place.

As a parent of 5 I believe strongly that it is my role to not only be a pro-active parent (meaning to discuss things openly with my children and know how they feel and what they are doing) but to also help their friends who parents are not pro-active.
My children are very much all individuals and are allowed to be such as it is their lives and they have to decide who they are. However each and everyone of them have most definately been taught the difference between reality and fantasy since a very early age. I believe more often then not in todays society (and i use that loosely as I hate the society word) parents arnt caring or pay enough attention to what their children are trying to say. So when that happens the children typically go for a negative outlook trying to find someone who will listen and care.
I am quite thankful that I am not one of those people and that my children are comfortable with coming to me no matter what the situation and discuss it. As I am the fact that they are comfortable enough to be who they are no matter what critism they get. I do have a goth child.. a jock child.. 2 prep children.. and an emo child. So you could say I have a little bit of everything when it comes to personalities in my house. And I am very proud to say that they are all mine becuase they are individuals as well as good people with good values.

I think all parents can only be 'on guard' as it were ...there is a world of difference between a child saying ' I believe in santa ' and ' I am Santa '

sorry, pressed the button too soon. Meant to put in ...past a certain age.

Here's another little scenario for everyone to think about:

Last night I went and watched Saw IV. There were quite a few parents that had brought their children, ages ranging from 3 to 6 years old, just so the parents could go watch the movie. My guess would be that they couldn't find a babysitter.
Right from the beginning of the movie, it was pretty gruesome and graphic, scenes that a child should definately NOT be allowed to watch.

There was one child sitting right behind me that was maybe no more than 5 years old that told her parents about a quarter way through the movie that she didn't want to watch it anymore and wanted to leave. I never seen the mother or the father take that little girl out of the movie theatre, thus resulting in the little girl having to suffer through the whole movie.

What's everyone's thoughts on this? What's a movie of this nature going to do to a child of that age after they watch it?

I know a lot of movie theatres will allow someone under 18 to be accompanied by an adult to be able to see an "R" rated movie, but this is just taking it too far I think.

indeed, but what if the child sees the movie at home? we all have video recorders these days, and few people lock away videos that are not suitable for children.

I believe it all comes down again to "parents responsibility" Karnstein.

But to totally ignore your child's request to leave the theatre because he/she doesn't want to watch a movie they're not supposed to be watching in the first place is ridiculous. Parents should have a little more compassion towards their child.

i agree entirely, but some parents don't see it that way. they think they are "toughening the kid up" . everyone has their own ideas of the "right" way to bring a child up.

in our country, the child would never have been allowed in the cinema in the first place - but as i said, we all have video recorders or DVD players these days. i've never seen the Saw movies, but i have heard they are quite extreme. i certainly wouldn't allow a child to see such a movie, but who knows what goes on in peoples heads.

“What happens when you take your fantasy world too far and someone gets hurt or possibly fatally injured in the process? ”
I think this is important. Many kids think everything they do online and off is reality. Parents have not stepped in and monitored all the video gaming and excessive use of such things. And yes there is excessive use of it. The situation of the youth today not knowing the difference, and worse, being apathetic towards others is a result of too much time spent in such non-existent reality based dwelling RPG.

“As parents, when do we determine it’s time to have a talk with our children about the difference between reality and fantasy? “
From the start is my simple answer. I think we do not give even babies credit from learning from their surroundings before speech is even possible. They learn from action and reaction at a very early age. For example they learn pain and sadness from those around them is why they often cry at stress of a mom or day.

“As a friend or family member, when do we determine it’s time to step in and have a talk with a loved one before they wind up hurting themselves or possibly even others?”
As soon as you know that this is happening is my opinion.

I do believe we need to seperate fantasy from reality.It is sad in this day and age that some ppl cant and it is ashame becuase when someone really gets hurt then they blame tv,movies music etc.Henceforth that is why we have so much censorship in this day and age and it aint right.We need to teach kids when they are young that way they wont do anything stupid as they get older.My mom did it to me as a kid I couldnt distinguish reality from fanatsy I was playing dungeons and dragons and lost it my mom took all my stuff from me until I learned.Maybe it is what we need to do to our kids as well.

Anyone who hates disney please raise your hand.

Why...

because of the candy coated delusion that the world is a safe place.

I say Kudos to parents who take their kids to saw and have meaningful conversations about it afterward, Kudos to parents who don't hide their sexual relationship from their kids. Kudos to Michael Jackson for his archaic innocence about impropriety with children... Kudos to all conspiracy theorists, no matter how wacko for thinking for themselves, kudos to everyone who doesn't believe everything they read or see,

and Kudos to anyone who has suffered and realizes that suffering cannot be avoided, is temporary, and should not be dwelled on.

I don't believe in a Disney World and
I don't believe in victims.

I do not see where belief in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy and belief in vampires ( or believing you are a vampire ) is the same thing.
Young children believe in both the Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus for a short time. Both myths are there for a reason. Santa Claus makes Christmas more magical for young children. The Tooth Fairy can make losing teeth an easier stage of childhood.

Those who believe they are a vampireare blurring reality and fantasy. In some cases, I believe some on the rave or who have been on the rave think they are actually a vampire in the same vein as Lestat, Louis or Armand from Anne Rice's Vampire Chronicle, Those people have a mental illness or something going on. I realize there are those who roleplay on the Rave, but there are some who actually believe they are immortal. That is scary to run across.

I don't no what to say here. I was raised watching horror movies and the like and I grew to admire the occult. It is a hard subject to talk about but it does need to be discussed. If we are going to allow our children to watch things and play games, it is our responsibility as parents to tell them what is real and what is not. And, more importantly, how much trouble they can get in to for performing the acts that they see on tv. On the other hand, there are the real threats of mental issues, or there may actually be something unexplainable going on. I am not saying that I believe in everything I hear about the supernatural, but I have studied and experienced enough to know that there are those possibilities and not to rule out those situations.
Keep us posted as to what they find out is really going on. Especially for us parents either experiencing the same thing or getting ready to as our children get older.

The people I work with so need to read this thread.
The live for their fantasy life and it ruins them to a non productive level when they learn they can't reach it.
It makes them emo kids or worse.
Very sad situation and so far they seem to be beyond help. The cling to their idea of what they want so fiercely that I beleive they refuse any help. and these are not kids they are 19-28 year olds who actually should know better by the time they get out into the world to "try" to live as an adult.
Some have not passed pre-teen level of maturity yet.
Many seem to be a lost cause.

Teaching children to live in reality prepares them for functioning in the real world. Living in a fantasy world will impair them if they continue to do so as they age.

I think that after a certian age or maturity level a child is programmed to distunguish fantasy from reality. A chil of 11 years old knows naturally that things like Vampires and zombies and lycans don't exist. My parents never sat down and made a point to tell me the difference between the fact and fiction, yet I knew when I was watching something real or fake.
In MY opinion (and this is just my opinion so don't get allup in arms about it) if an 11 year old girl is saying something like that it's is probably because the chemicals in her brain are misfiring and she has a mental disorder. I had a similar problem and shortly after was diagnosed with schizophrenia.
Something obviously isn't right here and I don't think it's movies or video games.

i feel that in this day and age children that are very young like the one who you mention in your thread is really terrible and child have very good imanginations and can sometimes be influenced in thinking that it real not fantsy. We as parents need to really watch what kind of movies/games or television they are watching as being at that young age can think that what they see is real not fantsy. That story about that 11yr old girl is really sad and i hope that she can be healed because being that young people will take advantage of her.

To properly for a mind of a young individual so it can understand the world in the way it is and gain awarenes, means to take him out in to the white world, and most important, stop the TV screaming every day how he is a rockstar.

Alright, I have heard this same discussion too many times to remember. It's quite simple really. The human mind is fascinated by what it can not explain. As of yet, science can not prove that vampires and/or lycans do not exist, therefore it isn't scientific and can not be proven. That's the same reason science doesn't mess with religion. That means that there will never be a day on this planet that no one thinks they are something that they aren't.

As for video games and tv, you are right. Many weak-minded individuals have sought to re-enact certain scenes from movies or certain levels from games. That leads to many things being recalled or thought of as evil or bad, when the truth is that it's because people in today's time and age do not know when to stop and take a step back and look at things from an outsider's perspective.

Sociology is the biggest part of this discussion. It simply comes down to how culture is evolving with the advancement of technology and devolution of humanity. Crime rates have sky rocketed in the past few decades and it is due to lack or morals.

That is what I have to say about the matter...

I teach my grandbabies the difference between fantasy and reality, they are 3 and 6..So we sat down and talk to them, watch the news and if it is a movie we tell them whats going on and if it is reality or made up..To me it has to be taught at a young age and therefore that is what we are doing

I agree with most of the posts here that a parent should be talking to their kids about real and imaginary as soon as they can understand the difference.

In addition to laying down this framework of knowledge between real and fantasy, parents should actively engage their kids in conversation about what they do, what they like, their interests, their issues, etc.

Too often, parents raise their kids in a reactive mode, rather than an active mode. They assume that if the teachers or the police are not at the door step, then the little one is doing just fine.

Instead, parents should act like parents by talking about right and wrong, real and fantasy, good and bad behavior, all before an issue arrises.

I try and teach my babies the difference between real and fake..They understand at an early age more than we think they do..So it is a good thing to start young enough

Thedog has made a great point people, don't let the Shrinks, teachers, and police raise your kids. You want them to be an example of you, so raise them yourself.

Again
i think this young ladies problem...is more then a parent teaching her about right or wrong. Mental illness knows no boundaries...

if this is a mental issue wouldn't the parents have seen something there though? i mean i know my parents always knew when something was wrong with me. so my question is if they knew do you think they would have done something dfferently and maybe it wouldn't have turned out the way it did?

I know the family of this little girl very well as I work with her father. She is very loved and very well taken care of. There really isn't anything this family doesn't, and won't do, for her. Her father is one of the best people I know as a person, he always puts his family and friends first before himself.

schizophrenia is very easy to hide. my ex-fiance kept it hidden from her family - and psychiatrist for many years.

some people dont understand (what else is new) where to draw the line. its not the parents fault that a kids e-world/iLife is warped. the next generation may become even more addicted to virtual reality to the point of like existenz or worse.. the red dwarf book describes a game so addictive on the seretonin level (actually all addictions are now to mention it.) this game killed some people by being so appealing that the body wont pull out to do basic functions let alone realize that there is another world to go back to... er care to know anyway what ive been trying to bring to the plate is that when someones too far gone into the fantasy world it is like an addiction -- hard to kick.

This can b extremely dangerous. I has a cousin who got sucked into a group at school that claimed to be vampires. They'd sit around and watch her cut herself and they would lick each others blood as well as carving wors into their skin. Come to find out she had even gone as far into her delusion to make up another personality that "took her over" when she was being a vampire. I sent her for help and 3 different doctors said she was full of crap! It's so scary when someone can't tell reality from fantasy. So much so that they are even lying to themselves!

well I think that it is really not too young an age at anyage to teach the child what is real and what is a fantasy. We as adults watch alot of movies and ourchildren usually watch them as well either with or with out us. We have always explained to them what is just hollywood make=up and stunts as to it being real or not and the same with fantasy if it is movies and how it is done. I feel kids need to know that alot of things are just engineered to look real and actually are not my opinion .

Sigh, it is a shame what society and the world is coming to these days. 1 step forward 3 steps back.

i have a 11 year old son and he plays these ps2 games that has alot of blood a gore in them and he also plays the games which you may have to be the certain age . i no i no but that dont make a bad parent .. my son knows not to take the games seriosly thou like some children do by playing a role playing game out side the home like for instince grand theft auto vice city.... he knows the difference not to go out and high jack a car and shot some one or run some on over ..

well for the co workers kid i hope that she gets better and stopsd trying to kill her self..

I will say this if a child is going to play those types of games it is the responsibility of the parents to make sure the child knows the difference between reality and fantasy. Not every child is going to be able to handle those kinds of games. A parent should know their child well enough to know if their child can.

The truth is that most belief is harmless. Most belief is personal. Even religion is such that each person who follows a faith doesn't believe EXACTLY the same thing as the person next to them. Metaphysics try to explain the fantastical and there's many levels of belief here that could be construed as fantasy or even crazy. However, it's not inherently dangerous or even wrong to have strange beliefs. It's only wrong (or at least foolish) when you try to impose those beliefs on the people around you and are shocked to find that they don't believe you. It's only crazy to suggest that your fantasy or your 'reality' be given special treatment over someone else's reality. It's also crazy to expect to not be ridiculed a bit by those who disagree. It's patently human to respond that way.

I find it interesting that the anty is being upped so that it becomes more and more difficult to believe in someone else's reality. It's not enough to be an energy vampire, now one has to be a dragon vampire or a half ghost elf. I don't particularly mind since their 'reality' doesn't affect mine on any real level. So long as they understand that I will maintain my 'reality' in the face of theirs until something strong enough should shift the balance. I will hold my reality until theirs prove to be more real. It's only their dismay that I feel this way that is ever really annoying I guess.

As to the dangerous and disaffected - the suicidal and the disillusioned. It's not inherently weak to be depressed or even angry. There's many a chemical imbalance that can cause someone to try to kill themselves and there's many a level of mental torture from their peers that can cause someone to lash out violently and beyond the scale of 'normal'. And finally, those who kill themselves because of a Judas Priest album or try to kill their family because of a vampire video game had severe problems long before they latched onto a reason to follow through. It wasn't the game or the fantasy that really did them in. Those poor souls who are remembered as being 'weak minded' or 'reality challenged' were likely on a path of miserable self destruction long before they let their fantasy get the better of themselves.

Hmmm, there could be an entire new thread on Self Esteam and those who cannot adapt their perceptions to work in conjunction with mass reality.

I still think reality is subjective and no-ones reality should be enforced apon another. It is self discipline, living in harmony, (and now I will add self esteam,) which should be taught... not this so called distinction between reality and fantasy.

All the stories we tell children from The Three Little Pigs to Santa Claus are fantasy based. Most of us grew up with no specific instruction from our parents on reality vs fantasy, and we've managed.

So what is the difference?

The sheer amount of escapist activity is one factor - the combined hours of isolated T.V., computer, and video play, alongside a true familial divide.

Even if there is a two-parent family, the adults are often exhausted and want nothing more than escapist activity themselves.

Eighteen years ago, my three-year-old would sidle up to me after a day with the sitter, eager for interaction. I was tired. I wanted me time. I had to force myself to turn off the T.V. and focus on him.

How many people do you think actually do this?

People have a hard time sitting and working in silence. I know very few people who can do this, and absolute zero teenagers who would even consider it.

Sonneillon my petal, you raise a good point...
Reality and Fantasy seem to exist in close proximity now days
Imaginatoin is great tool to have, but how far is too far?...I'm not a Mother so I can only speak based on time spent with younger members of my family...
In todays world, some young ones are sat infront of tv's and are then in the frame of mind to believe that you can indeed jump off of bulidings and not hurt yourself, that to pick up a gun and shoot someone based on the fact that they "dissed" you is normal...I've had to explain to the little ones that just because someone can shoot fire out of their eyes on tv, doesn't mean that it is real...and with games and other forms of media being highly sort after by young ones, the line between reality and fantasy will be even more blurred

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