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It is possible to practice witchcraft and not be a wiccan. I practice nocturnal witchcraft it works with dark matter, which is what created the universe. Konstantinos describes what nocturnal witchcraft is and how it is different from wicca in his books, "Nocturnal Witchcraft, Gothic Grimoire, and Nocturnicon." Wiccans tend to believe that dark powers and forces are evil, according to konstantinos. Those that follow the nocturnal witchcraft do not feel any attraction for devil worshping nor do they consider themselves evil, but they are attracted to and empowered by the essence of shadows and darkness without feeling evil. We also know that light and dark powers have nothing to do with good and evil. All spells are done at night time or in the wee hours of the morning.

I agree with ravenna... you can be a witch and practice witchcraft and not be wiccan. Wiccan is a belief system when it really boils down to it. I am solitary and follow my own belief system... and I am not really wiccan although I follow some of their belief system. You could be buddist and a witch, if that makes sense.

Ravenna,you called me? Would you stop calling me if there is nothing on business?
What is this worshipping me about?

I am a Wiccan, but I also study buddahism. I do not consider myself a witch. Just a person with earth-based beliefs. I do not consider myself a witch. Just a person, who tries to live by the words Do no harm to none. Magick is not an important aspect of my beliefs, but having respect for Mother nature and all living creatures.

Most witches I know are not Wiccan and a few even denounce it as a religion feeling it was created for profit and driven by greed not self enlightenment. Not saying those following it are. I have also met some outstanding withes that are Wiccan some being close friends.

But to the posted question:

I feel being a Witch is very personal and can only be defined by the individual in question. In general though there are some defining traits but I’ll let others point those out for you but one of your definitions had it well. Its practicing nature based worship but this is very general and only a good definition when comparing witchcraft to other religions.

Wicca is a lot easier. Wicca is a religion meaning it has a fixed dogma, set of rules, rituals and practices that do not deviate much between its members. It has a formal structure and hierarchy just as all other recognized religions do. Wicca is the only Earth based religion recognized by the other religions as also being a valid religion. Although they will not openly admit this but legally it is true. In the US this is recorded in the Department of Defense (DoD) [mainly the Armies] handbook and manual on religions and Wicca is an official choice DoD members can select and practice while serving. It is common practice that if a religion is not listed in these manuals than it is not an officially recognized religion and does not receive the tax breaks and other benefits those religions receive in the US and would otherwise be considered a cult.

So now more simply, Wicca is an organized and legally accepted religion but it has very similar values and practices as witches use. Witches are simply individuals that practice their craft as they see fit and do not need a formal structure. (In my opinion and I’m trying to keep it simple.)

Also of note, both are still scorned by Christian based religions especially non-Wiccan witches. Individuals that use the title Wicca or Wiccan help protect themselves from all the negative stereotyping that has been created around the word Witch. I would argue it is why Wicca became so popular so fast as it afforded people the ability to more openly practice their beliefs without being scorned too much for being a witch.

I am strictly polytheistic of the greek and roman variety-- no wiccan flavoring here. However with my own rules of conduct that involve doing what I can to not piss of my gods while doing what I want, I do practice witchery--though I think sorcery or enchantment has a better ring to it LOL.

I have been practicing this since I was a kid, and I think my involvement with wicca was something that lasted only a half dozen months at best.

Short answer-- Wiccans may use witchery but witchery is not wicca.

I agree completely with AlchemistDammed but will add that I and some others that I know use the title Wiccan simply because it best describes our beliefs and practices. Luckily Wicca allows for many different styles within it's umbrella name, from the very formal to the free style of most solitaries.
But I do agree that it is not necessary to be a Wiccan to be a witch just as some Wiccans do not practice that much spell casting.

I hope my comments don’t offend anyone as that is not my goal but I also don’t care if they do. I do my best to give honest and fare statements and can be tactful but I have no desire to be overly PC for the sake of some ones feelings.

I have found that when people are offended it is usually not because of what was said but because it made them face a reality they otherwise wished to avoid or it challenged their beliefs and they otherwise do not know how to cope with such challenges. So their distress is manifested in the form of offence.

You have a good discussion line here and I know there are many on this site that could give you further insight into things.

I agree with Ladywinterrogue... I am solitary as well...

AlchemistDammed i really liked yr comment, nicely said.. it would also those whom are open minded should not get offended..

as for myself.. i went solitary for the simple reason that different people have different styles.. the craft is something you do... it is nice having someone guiding you.. but after all these years alone i have learned to be bymyself with only my partner and a friend whom pratice similar to me..

Thank you Rowiel (and others), I try. :)

no there are plenty of people that study magic like druids that are not wiccian

I am also soliary but it was said you can be wiccan and also study other beliefs,and with this i agree,Wicca allows alot different aspects within its folds,,,and no offense taken lol

its possible to be both and i am . but i am not normal so i can do magic and other things

Humm, not trying to say anything against anyone here but to me I feel a person can only be in a fixed religion or not in one. Wicca is a fixed religion. So to me if a person is Wicca than that is what they are however they may practice alone or in a solitary manner but still their mindset and beliefs are structured in the dogma of the Wicca religion and they are simply functioning alone or in a solitary manner.

I feel a solitary Witch does not have a dogma or structure and simply functions on their own but with shared similarities to Wicca. I guess it’s a fine line only defined by the person’s mindset and the direction in which they lead their beliefs.

they are one and the same

I have to disagree. A religion which is what Wicca is and has become, is very different than an individuals practice especially in form and function. Now if a person practices the same way as a religion than that is by there choice. But there is a difference. If anything or in the least, the difference is in definition and maybe not how it’s practiced. But there is a huge difference regardless if one wishes to recognize it or not.

In your case Coldhearted I’d say you’re choosing to not recognize it. But as the saying goes, if it walks, quacks, and swims like a duck, than it’s a duck regardless if it thinks it’s a goose.

AlchemistDmaned once again i have to agree :)

yes as a solitary i do follow wiccan beliefs... yet i went solitary to make my own mind..

i read loads of stuff and even my partenr has his own ideas which are different from mine... thus we do not impose on each other :)

there are solitary which seem to strictly follow the wiccan rules.. i follow the main one.. let it harm none do what thou wilt.. but of course i am influced by other stuff :)

Nice thread!
Are they the same -- no. Codes are different for both while the similarities are too many to compare, the loyalties are not. This, of course, is just conjecture on my part,

It a totally different thing. The wiccan I have ever encountered are always peacful, nuturing people. Actually very nice and think of others. Then there are some like me that dont subscribe to the everyone loves everyone attitude and instead learn the darker side of magic

One is not the same or a subset of the other. In any case, if you are a Wiccan and you practice witchcraft, you would adhere to the rede - in part, don't wish harm to others and everything comes back in threes.

Most Wiccans who cast spells stay in the realm of protection, prosperity, and healing.

I don’t believe that there is a “dark magic” only individuals that wield it for dark purposes be they Wiccan or Solitary.

traditionally a witch is/has been considered to be a female. Whereas a Wiccan can be either sex.

Sex has nothing to do with it.. Yes HIStory, (yes I typed it that way as in HIS story) has all most always painted a witch as a female but thats because it was just one more way to keep women in line...

As for the question at hand My wonderful AD I must agree with you an all of your points..

Witches are not all Wiccans nor are all Wiccans witches.. I have meet quite a few over the years that do not see them selves as witches..Oddly, but yes...

Witches can be solo or in a coven and that has nothing to do with what craft they follow. Druid, Wiccans or Pagans all can be witches as can be Christions for that matter ... It all in what you follow and how you are true to your self...

interesting veiws as for my own I belive what I belive :)

you know i have nothing to say but im a wiccan and i dont study witch craft

Witches are born with their powers. Wiccans have to gain it. They do not have it at birth. You can be a witch and not practice wiccan.

I definitely agree with that.

Being a Witch comes naturally whereas as Wiccans choose to become involved and practice witchcraft. if you are a true Witch you don't need to be Wiccan to carry on the lifestyle.

I am a white witch but I also believe in the wiccan ways .

I would love to practice witchcraft but I am not too educated about it. I wish someone could help me start. I hope that didn't sound stupid lol.

Wicca is just a loosely organised religion based on witchcraft. They use the word from which the two derive, but actual witchcraft has no code, no rules, no heirarchy, and no organisation whatsoever. Or at least, there is absolutely no evidence of such. Anything people want to speculate on what witchcraft really is, is only that; Speculation. There are no records proving anything of the sort. There is however, ample evidence of exactly where and when Wicca became an 'organised' religion with rules and practices. Of course, many followers may not be aware of or follow said practices, but regardless, they are there.

I thought it was the same but after reading thread I can see a difference

no. witch is a deroggatory term derived from the word "Wiccan" used back in the time of the burnings. a wiccan is someone who practices magick, but a witch is offensive slang.

btw, it means the abilities one, in their families.

very well said RisingSun I agree with you on that.

And yes there are people that studd black magic. I know several.... I have studdied a little of this my self then got too wigged out and decided to study the lesser of 2 evils if you will.... and I am very much Christian.

Witches and Wiccans are not one in the same. Just like not all pagans are witches and/or wiccans.

Religion is what you make of it and there are plenty of people who call themselves witches that do not necessarily have faith rooted in standard (if you can call it that) wiccan practices.

well said

A witch doesnt have to be a wiccan. One could be a Druid and be a witch. I for one am an ecclectic witch and by no means am I a wiccan. Wiccan is a new age term, and is not of the old ways. Wicca is a more goddess based religion. Ecclectic means I dont follow a certain path in the craft. There are soooooo many different types of witch a person can be, and I prefer more of the old ways.

As far as the (x) generation thing... Unless they are saying they are hereditary witches, I have no clue what they are talking about. To be a hereditary witch one must have the craft handed down threw teachings, etc from generation to generation. Otherwise I can say that I just have no clue what the reference is to.

lol cool

XXgoddessXofXtheXnightXX, you seem to be slightly mistaken in the historical use of the word wiccan. In fact, no such word existed until the present era. It is yet another derivative of an older word; Wiccian, meaning to practice witchcraft.

Wicca specifically means 'male magic user', while wicce refers to a female magic user. Witch is just a mispronunciation of wicce. It was only derogatory in that all magic users were believed to have dealings with the Devil, and were therefore evil.

Why or how, exactly wicca became a common term for all magic users, I'm not entirely sure. Either Gardener or his people got it wrong, or they deliberately chose it in order to give their religion a fresh start, away from all the negative connotations of the word witch, but either way, that's how it is now.

Long story short, everyone has there own opinion. Pick yours and go with it.

I believe that there are differences in the two, but that there are also many other facets as well to each one....

Not to inflame anyone with this comparison but the practice of witchcraft is just as diverse as the practice of Christianity. So for those asking questions about witchcraft and Wicca, your going to get a broad range of answers and beliefs.

I would say there IS a difference. For me, anyone who can perform the unexplained, or does unorthodox things to cure people etc. is labelled a witch, even if it is uncalled for. People like this who also live alone or own cats are labelled unfairly as such. Witch to me is a label.

As I see it, to be Wiccan, is practising a sort of belief. It can vary from person to person, and I feel this constitutes a faith of some kind. Wiccan to me is like a religion.

That's how I differentiate between the two.

I loved alchemist's post. I think he highlighted the difference well. Similar theoretically in practice, but one relies on religion.

Great thread as always, Sacred.

the (x) generation thing is bull and pre christ my ass pagans were here before anyother fuck in the world we own this place

witches and wiccans are not the same thing... one belives and the other is just one... wiccans can be witches but so can, christians, buddists... ect...

I have to agree with everything said and with CursedtoDarkness as well very well said my lady tabby

i agree

i must say that being a witch and practicing wicca are not the same at all. For me, practicing witchcraft can be be either light or dark magic...depending on the person using it. But if you are practicing wicca, then it follows the light path only.

Just as everyone has already said.. there are many different opinions as to how accurate the "official" definitions of each are.
In my opinion.. A Wiccan can be a Witch..but a Witch is not necessarily Wiccan. That being said.. there are many different beliefs that fall under the label "Wiccan" as well. It's a Goddess based religion..it's a nature based religion.. Wiccans only practice "light" magick.. those are all individual beliefs.. Wiccans have as many differing systems and practices as Christianity it would seem. Some practice witchcraft..some dont.

In The Middle Ages Anyone Thought To Be Using Witchcraft Got Killed, It Did Not Matter if they were wioccan or not.
Wiccan Is probley The Most Mainstream Of The Magick practices Around Today.

Wicca today is the modern version of witchcraft and the most popular version because it is more associated with the "kinder" side of witchcraft or the white side of witchcraft (if you believe in that). A lot of it deals with sexuality and nature and that is do to Gardner's obsession with sex or so the rumors go on. It is not an old religion but based on older principles with modern twist.

Witchcraft is just a form of magic that is associated with most religions. Witchcraft is really just a term and anyone can practice any kind of witchcraft in any type of religion including Christianty. Christianty in the past is associated with some form of witchcraft but they never refer to it as such.

Anyway they are both related but one is a religion while the other is just a form of magic.

"Witches" and wiccans are not the same. At least that is always what I have been told.

You are correst. Someone who is a witch ussually means they practice the art of witchcraft and don't directly have a religion. They can pretty much decide the belief they desire most from any religion that does involve a form of witchcraft or magic.

Wicca is already an establish new religion. So being a Wiccan does mean you practice a form of witchcraft but doesn't directly make you a witch... Though oddly enough it could.

Hollywood has made witches and wicca the same thing. They are 2 seperate entities.

Wicca look for a balance with nature and don't upset the natural ordre of things

Witches are usually interfering with the natural order. Whether it be for their own personal gain or someone elses

Witchcraft & Wicca are two different things in my opinion, witchcraft is a practice, wicca and paganism are different branches of the practice.

I am a Wiccan, but I also am a White Witch.

Sacred...Another wonderful thread!

As amny have stated I see a distinct difference between "witches" ans "Wiccans". The two are not mutually exclusive but neither are they synonomous. You can be one or the other or both.

I think that a higher percentage of both witches and Wiccans are female. As both Wiccan religion and the manifestation of witchcraft require a intamate connection with natural forces. I think that women have a stronger connection to these forces than men. I'm sure some of my fellow males will disagree, and maybe it's just me....But I have to work VERY hard to "feel" the energy in people and things, while many women I know sense this intuitivly.

My fellow wiccans are of both sexes. When it comes to beliefs your gender doesn"t matter.

i myself have studied wiccan and believe that been a actually witch and been a follower of the belief are different ...

i also believe anyone can study wicca so long as they have faith and believe it ..

I am a high priestess to Stregerhia.. I have also studied a few different wiccan scripture.. I do not consider myself wiccan at all for I am a witch.. I do believe wicca is different that being a witch.. Wicca has been around for while now, but for as far as witchcraft has been around alot longer, and they are totally two different things..~NFA

Well I'm not going to pretend I know a lot about wicca but from what I am told wiccans only use good spells & etc. Like healings.

Witches on the other hand can be both good or evil....

I think thats right lol

i say its possiable.

Yes wicca is based on healing, and positive energy.. it is more of a way of life than anything else..

Witches/Witchcraft is of both worlds, it can be either bad, or good... I call it the grey matter in the metaphysical society..

I do think there is a difference, although mine is just an opinion..~NFA

abit like split personality

I believe that Wiccans are here to do good in a world of hurt and destruction where as witches are here to make everyones life a living hell!

To a point i have to agree with DaQueen but the idea that all witches are evil and want everyone to suffer is..in my opinion..dead wrong. You can practice wicca and not be a witch and vise versa..and not all witches are black.

I would have to agree with the masses My self, not all witches are wiccans... Be being a Pagan and all, and wish I knew what the X means, most likely is that they are just becomeing a witch and want to sound like they been around...... Kisses

Whitches: A person whom practices and partakes in whitchcraft

Wiccan: A person whom partakes in practising magic, and believes in mother natures power

i think its entirely possible for a person to be a witch and not practice wiccan just like a person can be christian or whatever religion they choose and not necessarily go to church or practice any certain type of specific religion

Not the same thing but in many ways!!

One can be a witch and be a Magick user without being Wiccan. I am a practicing witch and my religion and my workings would send many fluffy bunny Wiccans running away screaming. Wiccans are very light pagans by religion while I am of the deepest darkness in my religion in which Shiva, Kali, and Death are prominent figures. My workings are done primarily now, the dark of the moon, while many Wiccans go for the full moon.

Wicca is a pagan faith. Witchcraft is not a faith but a practice that may be used by someone who is Wiccan. Witchcraft can also be used by those of other pagan faiths as well as those who are not pagan.

I personally think it boils down to what the person themselves think because wiccan basicly like a few post said is just a belief system and many people get it all wrong........but i will let someone else describe this better then i can

I tend to say some of the things that have already been stated. I myself concider my self a wiccan witch. A cross of both paths. Does that mean they are the same. Only to whomever believes that they are. I believe its more of a personal choice. You can be both or you can be one not the other. To the member that stated that you can be a wiccan and be a witch and not the other way around. I'm not trying to cause a problem but I believe it would be up to the person that claims to be what they are it's thier choice as to what they classify themselves as. If they want to claim being a witch that practices wiccan or even explores it that's a personal choice.

I don't really believe in a limitation to one thing or other. It's all a persons choice and how they see it.

Thank you for your time in reading my post. It was not ment to flame or hurt anyones feelings just what my personal opinion is.

the difference is wiccans have rules with their magic usage

As the daughter of a Wiccan, I have always been taught that Witches are those who use their power for personal gain, revenge and /or evil and Wiccan's are those who use their power to bring balance and harmony to the earth.

I,ve just started studying the wiccan way.but i think there is a difference between witches and wiccans.from what I can gather all witches be it male or female are from a lineage.but wiccan is a religion/belief system.

Wicca: a spiritual path; a way to get in touch with Diety, Witch: one who practices witchcraft.

So, one can be both, but is not automatically both for being one or the other.

I applaud everyone for remaining calm, patient, open, and mature in this thread. That isn't something you see everyday, especially on this topic.

Witchcraft is a practice in magic. Wicca is predominantly a belief system (dare I say religion?). It is possible to be a witch without being a Wiccan, but I don't think it's possible to be a Wiccan without being a witch.

i believe you can be a witch and practice witchcraft without being Wiccan.

I just have to say that I practice witchcraft and do not consider myself a Wiccan....they are two totally different things in my eyes

A witch can pracitce any type of witchcraft, may it be black, white, wicca, paganism, etc. Were as a wiccan may be a witch, yes, but they have to go through a year and a day of study and much much more before one can actually be called a witch.

I am both a witch ( in all sences of the word lol) and a wiccan. But I seem to follow a slightly dirrerent path than most i know. I tend to teh darker energies. most of my rituals are done a tthe dark of the moon when I feel the most power. But other than that I see little diference in my workings. It is very possible to be one and not hte other I was a witch long long before I found wicca.

WOW some awesome responses... I never really thought about it in depth as this tread has made me... I would say after reading everyone’s opinions that no they wouldn’t be there same... I don’t think you have to be a witch and Wiccan is possible to be both but not always true... and yes I can see where some are saying it would depend on the person and their intentions!

Throwing in my two cents ~

Wicca is a religion, and someone who follows that tradition is there fore Wiccan. I know several others friends that are indeed Wiccan but do not consider them selves to be witchs. Also it is not a gener thing a witch is a witch whether male or female. I myself am solitary and have been for a long time. That's not to say that i do not attend open rituals, because I do. nd some times i just do them alone it depends on how I'm feeling. The practice of witchcraft is not associated with any religion, therefore you can be a witch and yet also be a member of any number of religions. For exapmle i have a friend who is a miniter in a Baptist Church , yet she reads Tarot Cards. When you are using the energies that surround you in nature and within yourself, it is considered witchcraft. There are different types some may have been taight mu their mother and their mother was taught by her mother and so on and so forth that would be considered hereditary witchcraft. When using magick it takes practice, experience and learning Just like anything else. Now onto the term of PAGAN....Paganism in refrence to different types of variety of non-Christian/Jewish/ Islamic religions that are usually polytheistic and are generally based from nature. Well enough said !

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