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I'd like to follow up on this Necronomicon discussion but with a sense of direction.

I know that H.P. Lovecraft wrote about this book as the ultimate book of magic/summoning from the old gods (Cthulu Mythos). Lovecraft never made any bones about the fact that he was a fiction writer. He did however believe that it was good when other writers shared mythos in order to create a more real background on future fiction. So other writers have used the Necronomicon in their works well past his death with his blessing.

When did it become a real spell book that can be bought at Barnes & Noble. I'm assuming that it doesn't have the rites for summoning creatures like Cthulu or Azathoth.

So did the writer of this book choose the name for a reason? What is the background of this version and if it's not for entertainment, why choose such a well known fictional name? Are we talking about an actual modern book of spell magic or is this merely a sourcebook of the Chaosium Gameshop (Call of Cthulu)?

even though this is only my opinion, I do not believe there are any REAL spell books out there. Though there are a lot of things that happen that are unexplained.

A valid answer. My point is that this book was originally a fictional prop...written by the "Mad Arab" Abdul Alhazred (a character who had gone insane after writing it in Lovecraft stories). What made someone choose to write a purported 'real book of spells' and give it a name whose background is almost certain to create debate over it's validity? Whether you believe in real magic or not would be fostered in part by how serious someone would take their own magic. Using a Lovecraft title would seem conflicting with that ideal.

Ah angst ridden teenagers hell bent on causing mischeif... I was one of them who just looked at the Necronomicon's cover and just knew I must have it. I admit, I never completely read through the book in its entirety. I probably did try using some spell in there after an exboyfriend put a satanic curse on me (supposedly).

Those were the good old days where logic or reality did not come into play, and I (along with countless other 12-17 year old kids) was foolish and stubborn enough to believe that if it was in print, then of course it must be true.

Perhaps this doesnt go to the heart of the question because it only deals with my interaction with the Necronomicon (funny i was trying to use spells from a book i couldnt even spell at the time)... But i think anyone who is truly into religions would do more research on the topic then just holding Lovecrafts book as unquestionable true.

But was this author serious? I don't want to call it a hoax outright but I've never read or seen the insides of the 'for sale' necronomicon. Could the writer have been just as influenced by fiction but still had the intention of producing a valid 'spell book'. I didn't repost this thread with the intention of slamming Tony or this book anymore than I intended to praise it. My intention was to explore the reasoning behind it and perhaps what influenced it's creation?

Admittedly, I don't believe there is much to be gained from any 'spell book' that you can buy in a bookstore, but perhaps that's not the point. Can a fiction mythos become so prevalent that it fosters actual belief and 'religion'? We know that the vampire folklore had a huge hand in fostering vampire fiction...but I imagine that the reverse is possible as well and that fiction fosters folklore.

"Can a fiction mythos become so prevalent that it fosters actual belief and 'religion'?"

Yes, Felix, I absolutely believe it can. As to whether the author was serious, who knows? Have all of the Popes (or insert religious prophet here) truly believed they were the direct hand of God on Earth, or have some of them thought..."well I'm supposed to be the hand of God, but God doesn't seem to be talking to me, so I just better fake it? How could we ever know that?

As to anything anyone believes in that comforts them or makes them feel more at ease...more power to 'em...I think there is much more attributable to the human mind than we give credit to, and again people look for 'outside' answers to internal crisis or questions so often that when somehow we internally settle an issue so many people immediately attribute the solution to that same outside source.

I could only guess as to whether the (present day) author knew it was fishy or really believed it. I think the same EXACT problem exist with Anton's "Bible".

I have two theories on the Necronomicon one is that it has a lot of use full information in it and that used right it can really make things easier. The second is that it has also been taken to a place where and manipulated to a darker thing used in satanic cults and what not. Now there is one that I have found that I liked a lot it was hand written along time ago, it has almost all the stuff that is in there now and some stuff that’s not.

The Necronomicon is every occult writer's fantasy favorite. Lovecraft may have touted it as a work of fiction, however, the work remains a power set of symbols for any magician to follow. It's the same as every book out there.

It is partially correct that there are no true "spellbooks" out there. Most of the books are simply a writer's book of shadows and experiences that have worked for them. No harm in this and surely what works for one can work for another who resonates at the same kind of level.

Konstantino's work "Nocturnicon" is inspired by the Necronomicon in part. The mad arab may not exist, and Cthulu may not exist, but if you build enough energy around any concept you give it power. Just ask any christian about God and you will contact a very real thoughtform.

Any fiction can be used as the foundations for a thoughtform or magical work. Hell, I have a Yugi-Oh card riding around in my work badge... Summoned Skull is a nice watchdog/ guardian association for me. As such, this thoughtform lingers around to protect me from regular office hype and harmful energy directed at me.

what exsactly is necronomican but hey isnt it true also that u have to be carful what you read because its likly to change somthing drastic

The necronomicon is hailed as one of the premiere fiction works of occult and mysticism. It is purportedly written by Abdul Alhazred. Abdul was a beautiful arabian man with green eyes and fairer than normal skin. He was taken to live in the palace of the King and when he was caught sleeping with the king's daughter, he was maimed. They castrated him, scarred his face permanently along the cheeks and turned him into a hideous looking creature. As if that wasn't enough, he was also dumped into the dark desert to die of his wounds. The child that was born to the princess from his seed was roasted alive and he was forced to eat portions of the flesh before being cast into the desert. None were to come to his aid for to do so would mean similar punishment of death for he who helped.

Alhazred wandered the desert and eventually found a dark cavern that led into the ground where there was complete darkness. The city that was underground was buried millenia prior by the upper world. In this alien city was a gateway portal with 7 gates to the realm and worlds of the gods, one of which lead to Atlantis proper prior to its destruction. It goes pretty in depth about soul travel to another time and place. But it also promotes the consumption of little toxic white spiders that would make one hallucinate.

I should also add that the original Necronomicon was supposed to be written in Alhazred's blood prior to his death. It is said when he reached the end of his life, he went out into the street and dark ravens flew out of the day sky and tore him to shreds, carrying all traces of the mad Arab into the heavens.

Don't you mean that it was written "that it is said"? Treating Abdul Alhazred as a person of whom there were actual accounts (as opposed to the fictional character he was) will only muddy the waters of reality.

It was mentioned before by the CoS reference but while even they agreed with you that a focus of power need not be factual in origin, one shouldn't kid oneself that you're actually dealing with the 'old ones' or that Lovecraft was writing non-fiction.

FELIX, if you read a little closer ( which i always highly recommend), you will notice that I have referenced it as a work of fiction... *sigh*

And yes, though it is a nice little foundation upon which to build, one should never assume anything. Do the old ones exist? In the collective mind of the Lovecraftian followers, yes. Does that make them any more potent than the standard thoughtform? No. Even the christian god has no power.

Incidentally, what makes fiction vs reality? We barely understand the physical elements and the physical world. Even the most ancient mythos on earth is "fiction" based... that is the nature of all myth and legend. It is the thought given to the form that creates the power, not the other way around. No one should ever make the mistake of attributing the actions of the whole Self with as the power of the gods.

While you did reference the Necronomicon as fiction you failed to mention that it was originally part of a fiction work before it was ever written, you also said that Lovecraft touted it as fiction instead of crediting him with it's origin. You also failed to mention that Abdul Alhazred (it's purported author) is himself a work of fiction (by the same author Lovecraft). I'm not trying to split hairs and I read very carefully before commenting when I did. If you read your last post on Alhazred, it sounds like your talking about a real person and that can be misleading.

Click the link to read some valuable facts about the Necronomicon----------------------------------->

As Chris G was kind enough to find and post for us earlier, Peter Gilmore goes into the histories of the various Necronomicons on the shelf and while even he states that they may have value as a focus or a prop in magical ritual, he also states that they were originally written to fulfill a niche market of people who had come across the mention of this book in fiction (Lovecraft books and later influenced books and movies) and wanted a copy. Therefore, there is no 'history' or 'truth' of the Necronomicon prior to Lovecraft's imagination.

Now as to the spells and rituals within various published Necronomicons, since they were typically culled from other sources and cultures, their cultural validity or historical accuracies would be on a case by case basis.

I do not know much about the book, but it was always told to me to be the Satanic bible... I don't know what sort of spells it has in it, but as a pagan I can say that if indeed it is the stanic bible... it would have to have some sort of dark theme to it. As I said I am not educated on this topic, and I have shared all I know on the subject, so if I am incorrect please someone correct me. :)

This actually seems to fairly well illustrate the issues with borrowing a name from something else in order to describe a modern belief or subculture.

I don't rightly know what the published Necronomicons have as their basis of belief. TonyVelasco may be able to add to that. He seems to be an avid reader of one version. I would welcome his input in the current philosophies of his purchased work.

I only know of the original mention of the Necronomicon in fiction by Lovecraft and as such, there is a struggle to marry the two origins, thoughts and above all motivations for their creations (fictional story and actual modern spellbook). This is especially difficult since the fiction was BEFORE the factual.

As I said, this illustrates a debate that has occurred between various vampire incarnations on this site and other modern manifestations that their name from either early folklore or fiction but don't purport to offer the same definition.

it's fiction, created as a bit of a joke - but....
HP Lovecraft's father was an occultist, and Howard used thinNgs he's picked up as the basis behind the Necronomicon. he did not believe it himself though, and most of the gods / demons in his stories were his own creations.

books like the Necronomicon and the other books in Lovecraft's stories do exist - though their antiquity is much debated. it is claimed that King Solomon used spells and glyphs to gain mastery over Djinn, and that he was supposed to have written a book documenting this, which is the "true" Necronomicon. however, there is little to back this up, other than the ravings of Victorian occultists or Elizabethan madmen. or is there?

I have used every search engine out there that I know of other than wikipecia (it is a personal reason) and I could only find the work of fiction that is being discussed, but I would like to put this out there if it is wrong then please say so to me so I can continue my research. The book told as the Necronomicon is really a book written a long time ago in the dark ages for give me I do not know the author, it was called such to hide its location. It was a collection of all the spells used back then they where not all evil they where not all dark, it was simply a way for a covenant to keep from being persecuted. The book was passed from house hold to house hold as needed to keep it save, its no different than a modern day book of shadows.

The Necronomicon is a HOAX. It was something that Lovecraft used out of a dream he had. He asked his writer friends to mention it in their stories and they did. He went so far as to put it in his bibliographies to make it appear to be real.

As I have mentioned on other topics I write and I did an article called the Necronomicon Debacle which is posted in my Journal under January with Daniel Harms and John Wisdom Gonce III on this very topic since they wrote a book about it a few years ago.

When Lovecraft died a writer friend went on to write about the Old Gods of the Necronomicon and gradually over time change them from the original intent of Lovecraft.

Lovecraft himself states in letters he wrote to people he made it all up and couldn't understand why people didn't realize this.

Now...several types have been publishes and all save one have admitted they were hoaxes...all of them and I mean all of them were money making schemes basically. I will not say they didn't put things in it to make it look sort of real but it wasn't.

A group of people who later were running the Magickal Childe in NYC got a brainstorm one evening about how many holes were really in most grimoires. They essentially put the thing together for their students to see if they could figure out it wasn't a real grimoire.

Well the owner of the shop decided to publish it and I am not sure if Peter Lavenda agreed or not but it looks like by the time everyone knew what had happened the damage was done and they were making a lot of money. Peter Lavenda is Simon Peter but he won't admit to it. He is a famous writer now in his own right. Would you?

They tried to bring in a story about some monks, etc etc and it did happen but it in no way relates to that book. As time passed various people have come out and told the truth which he keeps denying. Also this so-called manuscript just miraculously disappeared.

I found it humorous that Simon just wrote another book (whoever this one may be). Peter Lavenda was touting a new book was coming out but didn't say by whom exactly and viola Simon shows up debating Dan Harms on the Sacred Magick forum. He was asked who he was but said when using pseudonyms would you tell. Right there you know its a made up name. Dan got fed up and went back to posting on his own blog.

Thing is a few years back Alan Cabal wrote something about this shortly after his wife died as they both had worked at the store in NYC. He had been there and he told all and he even stood in for Peter Lavenda for a signing as Simon because he didn't want to come. Read the article...it will open your eyes...it is a work totally of fiction. Everything in it is made up.

I have a first edition hard cover of the book...its a good collectors item, nothing more.

Felix, fiction is fiction. The Necronomicon is a fun "spooky" spoof for people to enjoy. By itself it carries no more power than Anne Rice fiction. You are indeed splitting hairs and excuse me for writing in the first place to someone who is clearly the expert of all. For your pitiful ego's sake, "oh my god you're right. ". Feel better now? *rolls eyes*

The power of the book is not the book itself, but what people believe it to be, the mind can open new doors if pointed in the right place.

there are books that do have spells that work and its that you have to belive in it, to have it to work

Oh sure, you guys say that now, but just wait until Cthulhu returns and eats everyone.

(I kid, of course. ... He'd drive everyone to insanity, THEN eat them.)

all fiction but still a fun read

Ok so we all know that the idea behind the Necronomicon you see in modern bookstores is a fictional piece completely. Although I do find it quite interesting the book is also known as book of the dead. The Egyptians had an ancient book of funerary records. This book was nicknamed book of the dead by a historian sometime in the mid 1800's. I do wonder if this had any influence in HP's work.
If we are discussing whether or not these spells actually work that may be a simple explanation of mind over matter. I do believe that the human mind can bring about results simply by being convinced that the spells they use are real.

The Necronomicon is fiction, plain and simple. There is no Necronomicon, and if there is, it's not the one being sold at Barnes and Noble (be serious).

An ex of mine once bought me a copy of the Necro (as I call it), and I leafed through it and came to my own opinion that the book was shit. I tossed it in the trash, which my cousin later fished out. When asked about it, he said "What goth wouldn't have the ultimate Dark Book on his shelf?" (he is SUCH an emo)

He's never read it, he only keeps it on the shelf for others to notice. And that, in my opinion, is really all it's good for.

lovecraft=fiction writer
necronomicon=fiction

Apparently, Abdul Alhazred is not a valid arabic name. Something about the syllables, the beginnings of the two names. It would have to be something like Abdullah (Abdallah) Al Hazred, or something like that.

I also hear it might have been an inside joke from Lovecraft, as he did indeed do alot of reading and research; possibly the name signifying this fact thus:
Alhazred - All Has Read.

Anyways, I do own the Simon Necronomicon, which I purchased because I was an avid fan of Lovecraft when I was young, and so bought the book as a nice addition to the collection.
It does have some nice pictures, symbols, and the right names Lovecraftwise, but, like the fictionbooks by Lovecraft, it contains small corruptions of the original material, the Sumerian epic of Creation.
Fun reading, but very fictional, much like all religion in my opinion.

I too have heard of the Books of the Dead referred to as Necronomicons but I believe that those references came after Lovecraft and that he is still the origin of the Title: Necronomicon. The Books of the Dead (Bhuddist, Egyptian, etc) aren't supposed to be spell books either so their association with the title would be likely just a play on their own titles since they all relate to the dead.

Jenova - I feel much better :)

Sadly I have only glances at this book, but to my understanding it is a well writen piece of fiction that has no basis in fact whatsoever.

May people will make what they want of ANY written peice or work and call it what they wany, be it fact or fiction.

Though it is true that you should be carefull of what you read as ANYTHING can influence your life when you take the time to read and understand it.

Good luck in your quest for information.

The Simon Necronomicon was written in the 80's, most likely by the man known by the name Simon Peter. A good friend of mine was an active member of that "scene" in those days. I've forgotten the name of the book she told me about (The Necronomicon Files, I think) but it tells the detailed story of the publishing of the book.

Forewarning: the rituals in the book are designed to backfire on the caster.

I find that all things written hold no harm unless acted upon. To me, knowledge in and of itself is neither evil nor dangerous. It's the actions based on that knowledge or the outright belief in whatever you read that can lead down dangerous paths. Reading Mein Kampf doesn't make you a Nazi or even a white supremacist, but believing in the Aryan superiority that it promotes is ignorant and dangerous.

Perhaps I'm naive in that respect. I believe that reading any book of black magic, demonology, dark philosophy or religious dogma is in itself merely expanding your perspective so long as you take caution in what you act upon. Many religious fundamentalists believe that there are inherently evil books and knowledge that should be avoided. I respectfully disagree with them.

I also tend to agree that given the motivations and sources for the authors of various modern 'necronomicons', they seem fairly innocuous if perhaps a little misleading.

in my opinion, the book was written to boost the sales of a writer who was fading from the limelight. I have been a lovecraft fan for years. long before the publishing of the N. however other than my select group of gamer geek friends, nobody had heard of lovecraft. however when the Necro was published, it created a whole new group of readers for lovecraft.

I have purchased the book that TonyVelasco was talking about. It does have an awful amount of spells in it. I haven't tried it yet but it does seem a little too detailed for fiction. It's an interesting read, regardless.

I believe that the necromicon is in part truth and in part fiction.... Something along the lines of what A. Crowley (world renoun demonologist) did with one of his rituals/summonings: (Ruby Red) A. Crowley was also known as a trickster (much Like ~LOKI~ Norse Mythos) and teacher. It was said that he would use the greek alphabet to great effect to ensure that persons of high enough education upon the subject in question would see through the ruse(s): Useing all capitol letters to write out the rites. Those persons that knew the education of the greek alphabet would know that the meaning between use of capitol letters vs. lowercase would change the translated meaning into something entirly different. The Ruby Red ritual was designed to praise a goddess to gain favor to those who did not know the fundamental differences...but instead the ritual insulted instead.
I believe that the Necronomicon is much the same way... the spells are false... but the doorways and gates are real (which open avenues to obtaining what is real).

I've been a Solitare for some 30 years now. Some spells work, some don't, some are blind luck. One thing I do know, magic will never be as strong as getting off one's ass and making it happen. As for the book I think it is B.S. But the author knew marketing and kicked it out during the Heavy Metal days when everybody had sympathy for the devil and they made a very healthy chunk of capital in the deal. I'll give them credit for that one. One could sell the general public dog shyt if they painted it Candy Apply red and put a good spin on it.

i believe it's not really the way you say something that is important in magic. It's your intention that focusses the energy needed to work magic.

You can write your own spells if you want too, if you like putting thw in rime, put them in rime. If you can't rime then don't.
It's the focus and determination of the Witch that works the magic.

The original necronomicon was a real book. Certain remakes are completely false. Though I no longer need tex to do agic it did help me imensly when I did need them to perform any new spells. I sugest the 4 gates series of the Necronomicon. My personal favorite is the book of the Dead.

i refuse to read this bock! some times when you look in to the abis the abis looks back at you!

Then there are times when you look into the abyss and when the abyss looks back at you...it winks.

Lovecraft had a sense of humour. if you too have a sense of humour, you can see that and join in the joke. if you do not have a sense of humour, you will only see something dark and serious. he's one of my favourite writers.

but before you argue more on this subject, i would suggest you all go away for a while and read Carlos Castenada. and i do mean read - carefully.

How cryptic of you Karnstein. How is he related to the Necronomicon or Lovecraft?

Or do you mean we should all do some peyote and see if Azathoth can truly be summoned? :)

I believe in spell & some sources of magic but far as summonings I do not know. I have to do some research on that topic.

the necroncmicon is a book of power, a power i dare not invite into my life my mom fell into it's shadow at the same time she fell into the dark arts as far as it being fact or fiction i say fact but i belive the powers called apun by this book feed off the curption of your own nature and with my own past combined with my moms taint i can't let my slef indulge in it's teirs of power

Summonings are very diffficult and require much life force. But i summoned a demon yesterday. Cthulu as a matter of fact. Note: A demon can only be sent back by the summoner and in the same place the demon was summoned from.
So summoning can be dangerous but most demons will obey their summoner and if you're strong enough you should even be able to master control of Cthulu himself.

And so reality goes the way of the dodo. Cthulu eh? That's quite a challenge. I'm sure that my old prof at Miskatonic University would be most excited to hear of that.

The necronomican may for all intents and purposes be real as Lovecraft did like to have some things based in reality but every culture has a book of the dead so why would this one be any different

because most books of the dead are ways for the dead to reach their place in the afterlife (like the Egyptian Book of the Dead) or books of rememberence or honor of the dead...a way to meditate on death(Like the Tibetan Book of the Dead). The Necronomicon of Lovecraft is originally written about as a means of summoning the old gods. The creatures of other dimensions that would drive you insane as soon as you saw them. Monster/Gods like Cthulu were unimaginable abominations that would signal the end of the world if they should return.

The modern Necronomicon is a spell book and as I've said, I have no personal account or opinion on it's authenticity or accuracy since it's spells are often culled from other cultures and could be valid in that sense. I will say that the motivation for the publishing of modern Necronomicons seems to be monetary since the title would be meant to appeal to those fans of fiction where it is mentioned.

i have the book i have tried to read it a few times. But i find it just a little out there. I can't determine if i believe it or not. if it is fiction or reality.

if it is kinda scary if not someone has a reallyl good imagination.

Fiction I believe..
But I also believe that the Mind is a very powerful thing and if you believe in something long enough it becomes real to you.

there is some truth behind it, i believe.
I have a few of these books, i find intresting. But to do some of these so called spells. Is not for the lite at heart.

This book seems to be getting such a bad rap but I can't be the only over 30 person here that finds that particular book nostalgic. I remember the days when alternative books were rare and the Nommy was right up there with Gardner and the only spell material available for the average teenager. We read it like it was the word of the gospel. We loved how it intrigued and frightened us. It all seems so silly now, but most accomplished self trained witches started with a silly book like the Nommy... It was an inspiration at a time when there was nothing else. I love mine and it sits in a box with all my childhood junk. Praise be to this rediculous book.

you are not alone hexica I too have my fond memories of reading it lol now it is on a self

It seems there is a bit of confusion ove WHICH book is being discussed here and by whom.

The H.P.Lovecraft Necronomicon was certainly written as fiction. I remember back in my college days using to base RPG scenarios etc. Lovecraft never made any claims that it was factual.

The "other" Necronomicon which is sold as a "Book of Spells" is, in my opinion, fiction disguised as fact and was purposly named the same as Lovecraft's book. I think, as moany have stated, it was dreamed up to capitalize on the growing "Dark Satanic" fads of the time.

I agree with Sevenn...and to see Lovecrafts ideas flourishing to this day is in itself a testament to what you can accomplish if only you plant the right seeds and give it a chance to grow...

Beliefs are what u make of them..they grow with curiosity and word of mouth.We all have our own opinions in such matters, who is to say one is right or wrong.

Unless they're facts :)

i think the goal of Lovecraft is the same of any writer: to get published, have people buy your book, and definately to make money.

A few years ago, I purchesed a book called:

"The Necronomicon Files: The Truth behind the Legend, The revised and expanded edition" by Daniel Harms and John Wisdom Gonce, III.

While I have not had the chance to read it through, it certainly would seem to pertain to the subject at hand, it's history, legends, etc.

Lovecraft Made it real it seems to some. I Read about the old ones. People want to believe in the reality of this book and the old gods.
I was facinated by Lovecraft and his stories by the Necronomicon and the story of the mad Arab that was supposed to have written it..Fiction is fiction that has now become fact to the gullible..The Necronomicon is all over the place in movies other books Lovecraft had a great idea..

there's adifferent necronomicon besides the spellbook that tells of the mad arab's journeys with both versions in mind it makes it very possible to be fact

This book is very much a fact, not the way hat hollywood plays it out but very much differently. I should know i have the books heh heh

The Necronomicon is a real book. It is The Book of the Dead. It was used by the Egyptians to prepare bodies for the trip to the afterlife. Nothing to do with great and awful gods from beyond the veil.

i agree that it was real i beleive that anything to do with necromacy is real i am trying to find books on necromacy but they are hard for me to find.

I have heard the Necronomicon was a creation of H P Lovecraft as part of his Cthulu Mythos and a fake one was made much later.

It Always Had Been, Lovecraft disguised his work so only true pactisioners of the craft would know what he was doing.

I've seen a great many things in this world that I can't explain. Just because it looks real doesn't necessarily mean it is and vise versa. I would suggest purchasing the book and trying it out. What do you have to lose? If it is a real spell book then you have a new valuable tool. If not, a good novel is always a great investment.

The Necronomicon AKA " Book of the Dead ", Is a controversial topic. Some say that Abdul Alhazred is a real person. Researchers have yet to be able to conclude anything realistic that HP had written in effect to wards the Necronomicon. This topic is a catch 22... Spells mentioned within the book are actual spells that should not be messed with.. but the stories contained within add to the mystery. HP was a brilliant man and thus has obtained what his goal had been.. to cause controversy and fear through his stories.

I personally love reading my Necronomicon, it gives me a tingly feeling as well a place of belonging when i read its words and study it further. I persoinally dont think that it is something to be fearful of. I liken it to any other book of magical usage, that it still must be used cautiously with the understanding that its contents are not a mere plaything but something to be respected. As well one can often times get much help from the Ancient ones pending on what it is they are trying to accomplish. I also like the fact that there are a ot of safe guards to it as far as ritualistic spells and such, if not done properly then it will either have no effect or leave the "priest", as said in the book, to the hands of things of great horrors, bringing his/her demise quickly and painfully. I so love this book.

heh... For halloween one year I went through all of lovecrafts books (not just the Cthulu ones) and wrote down every reference to an occult book in it. I then bought 3 dozen books and put these titles on the outside binding and put them on my bookshelf. About the only book that anyone recognized out of all the titles was the necronomicon, although they were attracted to the names of the others as well.

They took up so much space that I threw them out with the intent to make leather bound covers for books that I intend to never throw out. However now, after several moves, I have lost my origional paperwork and must reread all of lovecraft again... LOL.

Could fiction in fact be real? could a book have been found and written about in an attempt to keep it secret?
possibly I beleive there is ancient tomes and books that hold secrets as far as magic goes I dont beleive anyone has been able to actually harness such a power.
So it all comes down to finding the original book the real Necronomicon, although a book of such power would be hard to find I beleive for anyone other than the one that was ment to have it.

I think it's evident from the very in depth conversation above, that even to the most close minded people this should easily be distinguished as a work of fiction.

"The Necronomicon is a real book. It is The Book of the Dead. It was used by the Egyptians to prepare bodies for the trip to the afterlife."
Jimtheaxe...
just because the name "book of the dead" corresponds to the translation name " book of dead names"..ie: necronomicon, in no way infers they are the same text whatsoever, if you were to use such weak linkage in a report on something you would get laughed out of whatever community it was for...
think about it

Right on Daermon. Exactly. Per my reference to book of the dead. The actual book of the dead goes back very far in history. Before Christ even existed.

I sit here and ponder the term fiction.

Imaginative narration, usually in the form of prose.

Would not all Occult studies fall into this catagory, being beyond the range of ordinary perception; and therefore a vein imagining to all but a select few. Those few always being in question (and questioned) if their perceptions are mearly imaginings?

I agree that even though some of these writers used some real things in their stories to make them more real to the reader it would be hard to believe that there really is a necronimicon bound in human flesh out there somewhere. If someone does find the origin of the real book I would be more then interested in learning more about it. It has always been an interest of mine.

I believe that the Necromicon is a real book and it will be revealed to the world one day when the real deal is discovered. It will be found somewhere in the depths of Egypt in someone's tomb as it will have been read to them at the time of death to prepare them for the afterlife.

The name is cool, all the book names that are used by lovecraft, and indeed is integral to the style. I believe that a cool name, whether stolen by lovecraft, from lovecraft, or entirely coincidentaly, is entirely done for the purpose of selling the book.

It seams relevant that lovecraft used many book names and yet the necronomicon is the only one that has entered popular (sub)culture.

Does anyone who has read "the Papyrus of Anis" or any other "Egyptian Book of the Dead" really associate it with the necronomicon?

It seams to me that the Necronomicon would be a list of names of people who were dead. The name is cool, and I think that the subject of any of the various necronomicons and their title are entirely and perhaps intentionally ironic, or outright deceptive.

I'm not sure everyone is talking about the same book.... Daermon, are you commenting on the Book of the Dead as in the hieroglyphic transcript of the papyrus of ANI? I wasn't quite sure. I was talking about the book with all the sigils and rambling storyline. If anyone is interested, there is a site with info on the book...www.digital-brilliance.com/necron/ necron.htm...

I believe what Daermon was saying was that just because the Egyptian title "book of the dead" can be loosely translated into the word Necronomicon, does not imply that they are the same book. In fact, before HP Lovecraft and popular movie and book uses that followed him, the Egyptian Book of the Dead or the Papyrus of Anubis or any other 'book of the dead' from Tibet or Egypt or anywhere was never referred to as the Necronomicon. The first historical use of that title is apparently in Lovecraft's "the Hound" (1924)

Lovecraft never produced a book that gave out all the contents because it was a prop in his stories and not a book fully written. In the same way we can't go in and research Superman's Daily Planet pay stubs even if a storyline mentions them, we cannot know what Lovecraft's Necronomicon would have said barring the few excerpts that he created for use in this story or that one.

The Necronomicons that were published later were based only thematically on Lovecraft's work and as has been mentioned above, included spells and ritual culled from other sources and religions and then (depending on the writer) transformed further using Cthulu Mythos language.

The spells may very well be some legitimate ritual from Norse mythology or Wiccan mythology or Egyptian, etc. But this work would not be considered the 'original book' since the original is historically a fictional prop and the materials within, taken from other sources.

I do find it particularly interesting that Cthulu has become a religion unto itself though I'm hard pressed to believe that Lovecraft was tapped into some secret knowledge and used it to make his pulp fiction horror novels and short stories.

I've honestly never looked at it so I don't really know. But in the world of magick, if you believe it to happen, it will in time. So I guess it really comes down to what you believe more than anything.

i believe that the book of the dead is a real book, and should be respected but the rest is just Hollywood.

does it really matter when it coem sdown to it all

Let's put it this way:

If any book or object with power (or whatever) really existed like our imaginations make us wish, I think those books or objects would be a little harder to come by, and a little more well-protected than $5.99 at a book store.

But just think how rich the crazy guy who wrote it is.

Bottom line:

Any truth behind it? Maybe. Skewed? Duh. A good book sells, does it not?

As enjoyable as it is to read, I think it's all fiction

There are some things i have read in the necronomicon i can relate to as fact and the rest is complete and utter fiction

Considering the Necronomicon something other than fiction is about as useful as trying to contact Obiwan Kenobi.

Sorry, but just because someone writes a nice story doesn't make it happen..

BTW, one of the original questions was: So did the writer of this book choose the name for a reason?

The answer would be: it's a cool name, citing the names of the dead, which is what the title promises...

I have a friend who is a necromancer and has several different versions of the Books of the Dead. He knows how to use the spells properly on all of them. He says that there are certain spells that could get you into a lot of trouble if you don't know or understand what you are doing

i dont no what to think because i dont realy now what it is all about i will have to read the book or books b4 i can say but i would most likley say it was all fiction

I think the book is mostly real. And if it si not well it is still a great read.

Im currently reading the book "To Kill A Mockingbird" by Harper Lee... in the book for those of you who havent read it, While they were waiting for the verdict of Tom Robinson Scout remembers something Jem had tole her. "he said if enough people- a stadium full, maybe- were to concentrate on one thing, such as setting a tree afire in the woods, that the tree would ignite of its own accord." (around page 210 in the papper back edition) .. The reason im bringing this up is because the subject of relgion came up somewhere, and maybe thats why some fantasy writers use the same ethincs or ground when writeing, that if they can get enough people to believe it, it just might be real.

If im not makeing any secce im sory. I have the Barns and Nobel version of Necronomicon like someone else said I saw it and i just to have it. But in the book it talks some what of the lost city of atlantis...And if im not mistaken, wasnt there a disney movie made about atlantis, anyways the point im getting at is in Necronomicon (the one i ahve-im just to tired to go find it on one of my countless bookshelves) It talks about a creature that gaurdes the city, as such it does in a movie...
But i think that the Authors of such books write things and use others as sources to make something more real, but also mystifying enough to have a younger generation belive in it. There for makeing it just believable enough to spread on to even younger generations. Like Jem said and others have thoght im sure "If you concentrate on something to hard with others, Or If a lot of people believe in something so much It dosent matter it has to be real." But then again just by discussing it and haveing someone think about it, its still there makeing it real in one form or another. Be it Fact or fiction.

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