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rosho
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00:54:02 Jan 21 2008
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I've heard of Raven's being the main creature of nightmares because of their color, and attitude towards life. Do you believe this is true? If not what do you think is the main creature of nightmares? and Why?




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TheFireWithin
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00:56:43 Jan 21 2008
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Hmmm.. Never heard of that one... I read a book once *science fiction but a fun one* where the author was afraid of horses.. So he made up the NightMare. Mares as black as night that invaded your dreams and made your worst horrors come to life.



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RaineVampire
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00:59:37 Jan 21 2008
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if i think of a creature of horror, that would be a spider...
some people consider Ravens as bad luck, but i dont think so...
i think that all of us have our own monsters... :)



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princesskayd1
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01:01:39 Jan 21 2008
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idk.. I've heard of ravens being a symbol of darkness... idk.. and also some people see them everywhere they go and they take it as a bad sign. but idk about dreams... I have a lot of nightmares but they never involve ravens...

I think someone might say that just because of how many people associate the raven with the dark/evil.

They are also associated with magic ect to but... it might have been siad by an individual that just kept having creepy dreams with ravens in them.



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TheFireWithin
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01:03:55 Jan 21 2008
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The only ravens I've ever heard about were the one's tied to the Norse Gods... I've also heard of that if you split their tongues, they can whisper to you.



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TheFireWithin
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01:04:16 Jan 21 2008
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They were never bad luck though.. Not to my knowledge anyway. lol



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ForbiddenTemptation
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01:04:40 Jan 21 2008
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What I know of ravens they are most intelligent birds and scavenger that does not discriminate between humans and animals.
They find food even in the harshest conditions . Crows on the other hand partially migratory black bird of the same family as the raven American Crow is not specialized to be a scavenger, and carrion is only a very small part of its diet



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TheFireWithin
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01:07:23 Jan 21 2008
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I know that where there are a lot of wolves you'll find crows.... It's thought that the crows will lead wolves to weak or injured animals in hopes of getting a good bit of the kill for the help.



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BLOODLIFE
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01:07:32 Jan 21 2008
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Any brown envelope springs to mind...

nightmares generally can be anything that your imagination seems fit to interpret as worth playing on your mind

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightmare



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princesskayd1
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01:07:54 Jan 21 2008
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lol crows are scavengers.. trust me. We have a ton of them where I live and they get HUGE. I have literally seen them where thier head would have been level with my hip if I had gotten closer...

lol, some people here might say that I'm lieing when I say that, but tourists who come here are amazed not only by all the wilderness but can't believe how huge those birds are.



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rosho
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01:13:31 Jan 21 2008
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I heard this in The Sandman volumes.



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mystikalmoon15
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02:16:41 Jan 21 2008
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I think it's the snake....



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Kryptick
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02:32:26 Jan 21 2008
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Never heard anything about that. I think ravens are just birds, haha.



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othis
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03:50:36 Jan 21 2008
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i do not think ravens have anything to do with our dreams and what gives us nightmares is our inermost fears



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theunknown
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03:59:51 Jan 21 2008
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i think ravens not the cause of our nightmares and that if i was to point at something that might it would be real life experences...



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Pai
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04:03:31 Jan 21 2008
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Hmm, no I have only heard that the Raven is a creature of pure magic.

I've also heard that the Crow is the one who upholds the border between this world and the other and to look into one's eye is to see into the next world.



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ravenMMMS
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04:13:51 Jan 21 2008
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I do not cause nightmares lolol
I know that ravens are very intelegent and wonderful creatures. That is one of the reasons i got my name. Also i have heard they are very magical.



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xMitsix
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04:48:54 Jan 21 2008
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I've never heard or considered them to be anything but a beautiful black coloured bird :-)
I guess one would have to consider a Raven to be a bad omen or dark creature to think of them as beings of nightmares



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TravelingEnigma
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05:55:10 Jan 21 2008
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in the norse mythology there were 2 ravens that odin had that showed him visions of the future.



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Lumiya
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05:59:30 Jan 21 2008
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Since ravens and crows are so closely related, why couldn't they each have the same powers and positions in lore?



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QueenNocturnal
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06:25:23 Jan 21 2008
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Never heared that either, i love ravens, they seem to follow me where ever i go, i see them as my spirit guide and in some ways my protectors, as for nightmares i think the creature of are nightmares is different for all.



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Whispersinthewind
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10:25:43 Jan 21 2008
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I think it is all just a state of mind. Since the main creature of my "nightmares" is the Zombi. Either one, or entire hordes of them. Either way. Most of the time it ends with the Zombi.

(Chuckles) George A. Romero is GODDDD!!



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LAZARUSAD
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11:43:03 Jan 21 2008
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I don't think I have ever had ravens in a dream, and I might have discussed it once in 40 years with another who had. No, I think the raven is less common in dreams than Hollywood would have us believe. Death seems to be my nightmare, as each and every time he gets close I wake;) Along with "the falling away" that quick drop of your spirit from body as you drift off from this dimension, like a bad elevator ride.



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misbegottenlust
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12:23:46 Jan 21 2008
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I had never heard of ravens causing nightmares, possibly harbingers of doom, but nope not nightmares. lol



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Lightningsking
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13:25:45 Jan 21 2008
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I have never heard of the raven or any other animal or creature causing nightmares



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KMS
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13:32:40 Jan 21 2008
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Aren't raven's the sign of evil or something like that? I mean, to tell you the truth--I haven't heard anything like this before. Lol. I could see how they could if people believed that raven's WERE evil.


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FelineDraco
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13:36:07 Jan 21 2008
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to my people the raven is an animal of Magic, Healing , and Creation. It helps you to bring light into the dark parts of your innerself. So I am not sure I would say he is a bird to bring nightmares.. altho that bringing light part could cause a few I suppose.

For me no one animal or thing seems to be the main thing to bring or star in my nightmares. My twisted lil mind seems to be able to make anything from a snake to a poundcake the object of pure terror.



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RAAGIOSL
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13:38:57 Jan 21 2008
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i actually thought that ravens were to drive off nightmares. If you put a pic or some sort of a raven in your bedroom it is supposed to drive them off. Some totem poles used to have a raven's head carved into to ward off evil.



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darkchyld
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13:52:39 Jan 21 2008
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Never heard of that one.



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rosho
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20:32:10 Jan 21 2008
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It's not that they caused nightmares, it was a symbol of a nightmare or something like that.



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tigerzplay
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20:57:31 Jan 21 2008
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Every culture has its superstitions and beliefs however to me its just another bird.



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rosho
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03:43:34 Jan 22 2008
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This isn't a culture, it's a graphic novel called the Sandman.



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gealachlass
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03:48:36 Jan 22 2008
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More are afraid of bats. Might get into their hair.



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rosho
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04:09:54 Jan 22 2008
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I've actually had a bat and a possum in my house. My mom got freak out at the possum.



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KCRC
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04:16:02 Jan 22 2008
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I seem to recall a psychologica; tudy that found that snakes were the most frequent creature to cause fear in dreams.

This goes back to primordeal times when human's arboreal ancestors had to compete for food and shelter with snakes / serpents. This is believed to also be the root of the serpent being chosen as the embodiement of evil in the biblical Adam and Eve story.



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rosho
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04:40:51 Jan 22 2008
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Well there are 5 field of psychology, what you heard was the anthropological theory. There are 4 other theories of psychology, including Freudian, Genetics, Behavioral, and Cognitive. At least this is what I learned in Psych class.



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MisfitChild
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04:46:11 Jan 22 2008
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thought the raven brought your spirir back from the afterlife



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PorcelainAngel
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05:30:34 Jan 22 2008
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I love ravens. I think it's such a majestic bird, so unorthodox. It's truly is a frightening creature. Ravens are so misunderstood by people that can't see their beauty. They think they are theivous crows, which is not the case.

Ravens are eccentric nightmare birds.



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MorbidAngels15
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10:00:29 Jan 22 2008
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I have never heard of it either, yea certain creatures you can have nightmares about, depends what you fear thats what i think



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slightimperfection
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Ravens are just birds, IMO. They are opportunistic feeders, so carrion is not off the menu. As a result this is a bird associated with death. Anything associated with death is linked in the mind with mortality, specifically our mortality.



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UrsaMorbier
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14:32:03 Jan 22 2008
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I had never heard of ravens causing nightmares other creatures yes



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TegoSanguisitim
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14:59:43 Jan 22 2008
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This thread stared off nicely and now is sucking my intelligence away.

Anything can be a cause of nightmares or fear. The raven or crow may not be a common catalyst for a persons nightmare, but typically nightmares are inherently caused by some experience from the conscious state.
The whole nightmare concept is way too involved to get into here.



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Pantervamp
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16:08:21 Jan 22 2008
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Raven often is symbolised with death , graveyards etc etc so in some ways so do i think it causing nightmares to some who fear death etc etc. But i belive it is a fairytale. I see the snake more as the animal causing things like that.



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cadrewolf
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16:49:32 Jan 22 2008
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i think ravens are miss interputed as the dark creatures in movies and myth, yet they are very intelligent animals. so all miss constued.



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rosho
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16:56:06 Jan 22 2008
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We get the point Ravens symbolize death, but what about nightmares, what do you think symbolizes that? In addition, why do you think that creature or thing symbolizes nightmares? Trying to get this back on topic.



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alastordarc
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Ravens are ominous creatures, in the true sense of the word. The appearance of a raven, be it in a dream or reality, one or many, is almost always an omen of one kind or another. Thus ravens are associated with nightmares, because they are the unknown with a message, and usually we don't understand the message, thus we are afraid. But in my experience, a raven is nothing to fear, unless you have crossed one. Then fear for your mortal soul.



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Bloodmother
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19:32:29 Jan 22 2008
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Don't think they're an archetype that has settled into mass consciousness --- say like the owl, which is spookier than the raven, imo.

For the raven to enter an individual's dreams that person would probably have some initial info on the raven, like the fact that it's a carrion-eater.



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RedGoddess
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19:49:38 Jan 22 2008
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Ravens are not scary they were ince seen as carriers of souls i see no need to fear them



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Khosmhyn
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21:16:29 Jan 22 2008
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I have great respect for Ravens. they are very intelligent birds and live a long life. Thre is said that the ravens carry the souls of the dead.



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TravelingEnigma
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22:30:17 Jan 22 2008
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link 1

link 2
here are a few links on the subjet


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valkerie
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Ravens are the eyes and ears of the Norse Gods Odin. They are named Thought and Memory. Different cultures see them in different ways.
I have a pet raven. I've had him for several years. I got him as a youngling from a wild life rehaber. as he could never be set wild as he cannot fly.
Now you would think that having one as a pet is really cool and in some ways it is. However, they are very messy and loud birds. As the are omnivores, they are more messy then regular seed eating birds. I'll try to post a pic on my site of him.
V



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rosho
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That's awesome!



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tool1991
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22:37:36 Jan 22 2008
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All I have to say is:
Alfred Hitchcock; Birds



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scorpioblacktiger
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23:08:46 Jan 22 2008
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I think ravens get a bad rep is all from superstision. I would say the monster of a dream gone nightmare is different for everyone.

I am not quite sure what mine would be. Probably a demon of some kind. I see alot of those in nightmares and dreams.



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MisfitChild
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03:07:13 Jan 23 2008
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no



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RavynDarkrose
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03:09:24 Jan 23 2008
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I don't belive it's true, because there are so many things that can cause nightmares and it's not the same thing for everyone.



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rosho
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04:24:02 Jan 23 2008
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Thank you misfitchild, your answer was so beautifully done. *sarcasm*

I asked why if not?

I can say no to any argument.



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DravenG
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04:46:27 Jan 23 2008
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There has been a lot posted in this thread on each and everyones beliefs. I feel that it depends on what religion or belief system you have.



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rosho
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04:59:41 Jan 23 2008
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I agree, it depends on a lot of things. Things can be formed in different languages and mean the same thing. While the same two words in English, can mean something different, (not the best example).



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Polishsiren
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I don't think Ravens or any particular animal or creature would be held common to all. I think it is particular to ones fears that would apply. For example if someone fears dogs than a nightmare for them would be including dogs and not Ravens. For another person it could be snakes, etc. Some people it may not even be a creature it could be other fears, such as water, night, being chased etc. a nightmare doesn't consist of just one thing.



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Polishsiren
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05:09:57 Jan 23 2008
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Also many people wouldnt be able to distinguish in a dream the differance between ravens, black crows or just a big black bird.



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rosho
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05:13:39 Jan 23 2008
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I just read it in a book that Raven's are the nightmare creature... It could be a bear for you, or an elephant.... Or anything. I just want to hear opinions, on whether or not this is true, and why or why not you believe this, nothing more nothing less.



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Polishsiren
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05:19:54 Jan 23 2008
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Was the book fiction? non fiction? science? Text? did it offer any proof to that statement? How did the book present that particular fact?



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darkraven2u
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05:21:45 Jan 23 2008
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my up most respect is fore the raven...

The largest of the songbirds, the Common Raven is one of the most widespread species in the world, found across North America and Eurasia, southward into Central America and northern Africa. Perhaps the smartest of all birds, the raven can survive in Arctic, temperate, and desert environments.
The Common Raven had nearly disappeared from the northeastern United States in the early part of the 20th century. Its numbers in that area increased markedly in the last half of the century, and it is reoccupying much of its former range. Because of small population sizes in much of the East, it is listed as endangered or threatened in a number of states. Populations have been increasing all across the range, especially in the West where it has taken advantage of human-modified habitats.



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darkraven2u
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05:22:52 Jan 23 2008
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Cool Facts

* The Common Raven is an acrobatic flier. It frequently is seen to make rolls and somersaults in the air. It has even been observed flying upside down for as far as one kilometer (0.62 mi).

* Breeding pairs of Common Ravens hold territories and try to exclude all other ravens throughout the year. In winter, young ravens finding a carcass will call other ravens to the prize. They apparently do this to overwhelm the local territory owners by force of numbers to gain access to the food.

* The Common Raven often uses sheep wool to line its nest. When the female leaves the nest for a while she may cover the eggs with the wool.

* Increasing raven populations can have significant negative effects on the populations of some vulnerable prey species, such as desert tortoises and Least Terns. Ravens can cause trouble for people too. Ravens have been implicated in causing power outages by contaminating insulators on power lines, fouling satellite dishes at the Goldstone Deep Space Site, peeling radar absorbent material off buildings at the Chinal Lake Naval Weapons center, pecking holes in airplane wings, and stealing golf balls.



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Polishsiren
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05:26:57 Jan 23 2008
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You need to include the link for your copied text Common Raven



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darkraven2u
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05:31:48 Jan 23 2008
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cool will do that next time



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DestructionOfDeath
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08:30:51 Jan 23 2008
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i believe that is a hound from hell & no not resident evil just a rawt but with deep glowing eyes red as hell itself & i had nightmares for a week were i was in a alley & i saw my whole family dead & dragged to his pit then i never finished because i was 13/14 yrs old but i remember i always ended up running down the alley trying to escape from him & that is were i always woke up



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kevil
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09:06:55 Jan 23 2008
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For those of us who are Native American the Raven is the messenger, but not of death or warning. Like the owl the Raven can travel across the veil to the otherside to bring back messages to the living.
For me they have always been my eyes for things I could not see, like the car coming up the street that I didn't notice, or when I am looking for a particular plant they find it and throw it down to me. I hate that they have been given such a bad rep.



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Daedal
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13:21:38 Jan 23 2008
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I don't think that ravens are the main creature of nightmares. I think that the main creature would vary from person to person, depending on what their fears are. For some, it would be rats, for others, spiders. You get the idea.



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JinSato
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15:20:42 Jan 23 2008
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as far as the raven itself is concerned, i dont feel that its the #1 creature of nightmares, most are just wat ppl fear.
to me from hearing of most dreams, shadows play more of a role than anything.



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BathoryBabe
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15:29:40 Jan 23 2008
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I don't think there really is a creature of nightmares. Well not one specific one anyway to many people are afraid of different things. In my culture the Raven is a trickster but he is also the one who carries messages to and from the creator.



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mystikalmoon15
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15:40:29 Jan 23 2008
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A big scary gargoyle lol That's what I think would be the scariest...bats would probably mean healing and protection i think....



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rosho
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04:47:44 Feb 01 2008
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Polishsiren, this book was called The Sandman, it's a very interesting graphic novel/ sci-fi. I think it said in one of the books that the raven was the creature of nightmares.



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MOONLITDREAM
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09:52:20 Feb 01 2008
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i feel that ravens are nothing to fear... there beautiful birds.. although i got chased by one pecking my head threw a corn field when i was younger...
would this of ment something ....lol



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DarkAngelDevina
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14:16:10 Feb 01 2008
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kevil I believe this said it best...
For those of us who are Native American the Raven is the messenger, but not of death or warning. Like the owl the Raven can travel across the veil to the otherside to bring back messages to the living.
I believe it is very true because of my heratige.. I am of Native American blood but where the raven comes to you The owl comes to me with messages that I need to get..

I do however also carry the raven around with me spiritually as well.
So no I do not feel they cause nighmares... Those forked toungued red eyed demons cause mine most of the time...



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ShaolinWicca
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15:25:50 Feb 01 2008
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I've always been terrified of bees. I hate them. They always sting me, even if I'm not that close to them. They seem to seek me out and I have no idea why.



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nightcraving
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16:04:22 Feb 01 2008
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Never seen a raven in my dreams and never thought about them and dreams.



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VW39
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19:33:56 Feb 02 2008
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I was under the impression that the boogy-man was the main creature of nightmareas.



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VW39
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19:34:23 Feb 02 2008
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Er ... naturally I mean nightmares.



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BloodDrenchedRose
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11:22:59 Feb 09 2008
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I never knew that there was a "Creature" well known to be in peoples nightmares other then the boogyman



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coldkisses
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11:28:29 Feb 09 2008
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i think it may be a shadow or some kind of dark matter or a curse

i had a shadow following me once
and it wasn't my own



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VW39
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15:16:24 Feb 09 2008
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BDR -


I guess that some of the villians in horror movies end up in peoples dreams.



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BloodMoonAngel
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05:22:29 Feb 11 2008
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I don't think they are



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TheVenus
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05:27:59 Feb 11 2008
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I think that nightmares stem from an individuals own fears. Some people, like myself, like ravens, and therefore are less likely to have nightmares about them, where as a nightmare about spiders would scare us half to death. Is that to say that someone with no fear of ravens can't have a nightmare about them? No, but they're less likely to do so. And it's been my experience that if you have a nightmare about something you're not usually scared of, you should try to figure out the meaning to your dream, b/c it may be trying to tell you something.



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UrsaMorbier
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05:59:34 Feb 11 2008
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depends on the dream as to what creature it could be



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Sulky0Uya
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21:27:21 Feb 11 2008
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i think it is a sigh for death or death to come.



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SalemsxAngel
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21:30:35 Feb 11 2008
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I myself have never heard that one, but im sure it is becuase of the ravens such mysterious nature and what its associtaed with at times that it may be in someones nightmares



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Dragonrouge
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21:40:23 Feb 11 2008
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I dream dragons usually but I am not affraid of them in the dream.Sometimes I dream how I am morphing into a kind of a monstruous creature.This is painful but I don`t percieve it like a bad thing while I am transforming.



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VW39
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22:02:57 Feb 11 2008
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Still confused as to how they're the thing of nightmares.



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ShadowKnight5107
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22:53:27 Feb 11 2008
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ravens and crows are the eyes of Oden

the true creature of nightmares it the creature that person fears the most



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JinSato
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00:29:52 Feb 12 2008
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nightmares are merely wat we are currently thinking subconsciously at that moment. be it ravens or darkness or watever, a raven doesnt necessarily signify a nightmare.



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VW39
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00:30:54 Feb 12 2008
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Aside from the bad sentence structure .. well said Jin.



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NyteStalker
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22:38:02 Feb 18 2008
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I found this very interesting page on crows/ravens when searching to find information on your topic....

http://morningstar.netfirms.com/crow.html



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boneyardvixen
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01:05:45 Feb 20 2008
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I didn't think much of this thread until I jus saw the movie 'The Messengers'.

Now I see what you're talking about.



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Airianna
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01:37:49 Feb 20 2008
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Do you believe this is true?
No I can't see a raven being of nightmares, when I've had raven as pets

If not what do you think is the main creature of nightmares?
It all is on that person and what scares them, its believe that night hags would ride on the backs of, nightmares {black as night horses with flames for eyes} and would enter peoples dreams. I have also herd of night hounds being a folk lore for night mares.


Why?
Something has to go bump in the night to scare us



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rosho
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02:48:33 Feb 20 2008
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I'm guessing this will be one of the last posts of this Forum topic, anyways I would like to say what a nice time I had discussing the topics of Ravens with you guys.



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Atonement
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03:32:06 Feb 20 2008
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Well, ravens are carrion eaters, so from days of old they have been thought of as bad because they eat the dead. it's also why they think the crow carries the soul. But I don't know how one was concidered evil and one good if they are the same bird?



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Daeva
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04:47:54 Feb 20 2008
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I hesitated to post again but I write almost continuously for this zine or that and I have written on the Raven and to clear up things, the Raven is a Crow, but not all crows are Ravens. Here are some excerpts that are under my copyright:

These birds have larger than average brain cavities. Their cerebral hemispheres are the largest of all birds, making them among the smartest birds in the avian family. Some sources believe the raven to be smarter than parrots but consider it like measuring apples against oranges. Needless to say they are very smart and very crafty birds.

They are highly intelligent as previously mentioned and according to accounts by people who have observed them, crows can count to a limited point. It has also been observed that they appear to have the capacity to distinguish between people who are out fishing as opposed to hunters and will avoid them. Yet they will go up close if that same person should be holding a fishing pole rather than a gun. Hunters have been known to shoot them as scavengers and in some cases even poisoned and otherwise tormented them. Some regions allow them to be hunted with a license at certain times of the year and in specified areas.

Note: Ravens are thought of differently than the common crow but they are in the same family but because of their size and regal look people think of them as less of a scavenger but they are indeed scavengers.

The raven by contrast is representative of healing, magic and also creation. It is a totem of change and it gives the ability to take our thoughts and manifest them into reality. This totem is transformational. We learn how to go deep inside to solve inner conflict and bring it to the forefront. In this way it is a very introspective totem. This is part and parcel to its great healing ability. As the saying goes, “physician heal thyself”. The Raven helps us overcome personal obstacles that have been buried deep inside and resolve them.

“Because raven would feed on the corpses of the dead hanging on the gallons, early European settlers feared this bird and considered it to be an ill omen. In truth, however, raven should be respected not feared.

There are many stories in native cultures about this illusive black bird. Shamans know the power of an unexpected piercing sound in altering consciousness. Ravens exercise this power, emitting a variety of sounds and can aid us in shifting our consciousness into various dimensional realms. This is one reason why the raven is known as a shape shifter with magical powers. Anyone with raven as a totem can expect continual changes and spiritual awakenings throughout their life.”


Note: I did not excerpt a straight page of writing but from various parts to emphasize certain characteristics of this particular species in science and lore. A few more excerpts:

Ravens are found at the Tower of London and it is believed that if they ever leave that the Crown of England would fall. Even to this day a dozen ravens are cared for at the Tower by a royal Ravenmaster. The ravens were accepted as part of life at the Tower of London but elsewhere it was not always the case. Some crows and ravens were kept as pets, although in most places at least in North America it is now against the law.

Ravens were accused of being witches familiars just as the black cat. People thought they helped cast evil spells. Sometimes individuals would gather together and form angry mobs killing the bird along with the accused witch.

Those that follow many of the old Celtic practices still view the raven and the crow as animal guides. They see them as part of the circle of life. They were known to serve the Goddess Morrigan. Morrigan was considered a good ally in war as she was known to be the factor that could gain victory in battle. She was a wrathful goddess if angered and could incite brutality if need be. She was said to be able to transform herself into a raven in order to fly over the battlefield to peruse what was happening and give support to the side she had chosen. When the war or battle was over the ravens would descend and feast on the bodies of those that had been killed in battle.

The raven was also associated with the goddesses Nantosuelta, Rhiannon, and Epona. They are attributed as guardians of the tomb of Bran. His tomb is said to be under the White tower located at the Tower of London.

The Norse was another culture with tales about ravens. According to legend Odin kept two ravens. One he called Hugin meaning thought and the other was called Munin meaning memory. When the birds took to flight and would leave Odin he would be without thought or memory. When the ravens returned they would regale him with stories about everything they had seen or heard on their journey concerning both earth and heaven. “The Germans referred to Odin as Wotan and thus in German the raven may be referred to as Wotansvogel--God's bird.” (Fr. Frog) Even in present day the Northern people have a special reverence toward the raven and still tell many stories about them.

Therefore because the Vikings were conquering the Christian settlements in England in the long past the symbol of the raven became associated with death. Even today many still hold a negative regard for the birds due to ancestral experiences.



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H3LiX
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05:03:11 Feb 20 2008
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Raven's are said to be the creatures of nightmares because of they usually signify a death. And normally death is the basis of nightmare.



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VR System
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05:03:11 Feb 20 2008
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This thread has been automatically closed for length.



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