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It seems to be legitimate.. But there has been proof of the handprint... I strongly believe that when someone does something to prove themselves in life it stays after.

After reading this article, I tend to believe this is a legitimate occurance. Many people tend to over state their case when trying to validate their opinion. This article is short, and direct to the point.

Thanks Sacred for this info...

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Sacred, I know what you are talking about, I beleive it to be legit and paranormal. I know the story as I am a nerd about watching T.V. shows about stuff like this, and to prove my point, I saw a show where a betrayed woman was hanged, and said that she would leave her mark on the guys grave, and she did. It's weird

Ive read the story & i think its legitimate. I tend to be a skeptic at heart but with this article i felt that it was very truthful & straight to the point. Most that write their articles stating of "phenomena" they tend to over exaggerate & embelish quite a lot throughout the whole thing. Awesome thread awesome article XD

Well, assuming that the investigator cited did a thorough and documented job, and the removal of the original wall....if those two pieces of presented evidence are accurate, they're damned compelling. The investigator determined that there was no additional paint or pigment.

Hm... it's a toughy. I tend to always believe in what is not possible... but I live in the just 20 minutes or so from John Thorppe (spelling?) and I've never heard anything about this phenomenon whereas I've heard of multiple others that range from 3 minutes to 2 hours from my home.

I read the article and I must say that I am a skeptic at heart. I live in Eastern PA nad go by Jim Thorpe when I bring my daughter back and forth to college. Next time I take the trip I am going to stop and check this out!

As I am a Chemist I can see various ways that this could be explained in other than paranormal ways. If indeed the wall had not been replaced, but only cleaned or painted over, it could just be a "bleed through" of the original handprint. As the individuals involved were coal miners, reminants of coal would remain on their hands for a long time. The organic chemicals contained in the coal residue would certainly bleed through the paints used during the period this happened and right up until the invention of "Kilz" bleed resistant primer. Coal residues would also explain the lack of evidence of "pigments". The stain would be due to discoloration of the binder of the subsequent paints, not additional pigments. In addition, assuming the paints used were "oil based" the coal residues would be chemically similar and very high technology chemical seperation and identification techniques would be required to pick them out from the oil paint resins.

Then agian, maybe the ghost of the condemed man comes each night and "freshens up" the hand print!

Ive seen a few tv programs on this before, I don't think it wise to buy into the supernatural explanation, simply because it seems to defy conventional explanation. Mystery perhaps, but definitely not something I would flat out call paranormal.

It comes down to interpretation, like everything else, believe what you want.

And yes, some stains wont go away with simple painting and so on, this I have seen.

Hmm, the wall had been knocked down and rebuilt? Funny, when I saw this story on TV they spoke of the wall in it's original state. They only said that it had been painted and repainted, thats it. Yeah, I would be okay with claiming my belief in this being a hoax.

Seems real enough to me I have of other instants where things like that happened.

I am a sceptic by nature and it takes alot ot make me beleve , but I would admit if there is visitor and scientific proof the acticle seems leigimate, still, I would say sorry but to be fully impress I would have to see it, I had a thing here that was called the bloody tears of mary, a statue that was suppose to bleed tears and even the POpe was suppose to coem bu tit turn out after almost a year that by mistake the ppl who made the thing were caugh putting bacon grease with blood on the statue, which turn out to be a total hoax.

I think it could be legitimate.. but then lots of people make up things to get attention or business.

weird but not at all impossible

i think it is very possible

very possible i believe it can happen

Based on the article alone I would say that it sounds legitimate; however, I will take a deeper look and see if there is anything else I can find substantiating it.

i have read this before and i do belive it is very real.......it was in a haunting book i read once.......

it's all about the money

I have seen it and it seems to be quite real

Hmmmmm

IF the wall was removed, I would be really interested to know if the handprint is still on the rubble or if it 'moved' to the new wall - that would be creepy

If it is the same wall there could be all sorts of chemical explanations I guess - the only way to solve it, or add further mystery, would be to overpaint it with some of that sealing primer mentioned above and see if it still comes through.

Mind you the hard core belkivers can then say that the handprint survives but just under the paint !

Fascinating article. I think it's feasible.

Here's a slightly better shot of the handprint in question:



Whether or not it is completely true (since they've stopped trying to remove it), I like the idea of truth making itself remembered when justice turns a blind eye.

I believe

its very real i think so!

The truth is where you find it, but in finding do you know it for the truth.

I found this ver interesting I think it is very likely

I believe it to be a real happening. Even had the wall never been replaced, if indeed the detectives did their job proper then they proved no reason for it to be there, that would include a search for all natural causes. I think there are some things in life that we can noe explain and sometimes I think that is the way it should be. I do believe that if a person wishes to leave their mark on this world then they will, whether it be by mysterious handprint, or something noble like the inventing of electricity. There are other stories similar to this one of different happenings as well. I cant recall them this second because it was a while back that I watched the specials on the history channel. I will have to look thiem up and post them for you all as well. :)

I believe that the handprint is real. It was one of the last attempts made by a man wrongly accused so in a way what he said about it being there to remind the government of it's is true. I also believe that maybe his spirit is there to make sure that it remains a constant reminder.

I believe it to be very real

It is possible that this is true phenomena. Especially if the wall had been torn down and reaplaced.

If there is a ghost refreshing the thing, it's the laziest damn ghost I've ever heard of. If he did a bit of follow-up he'd realize the people he was trying to shame are now profiting off his martyrdom. And if it's just a watermark or whatever, they're profiting anyway. He ought to be spinning in his grave.

i think it is real.... stranger things have happened.

Its real, to my belief, why wouldnt it be real....Something that has been scrubbed on, painted over, etc is still there.....

now that is cool

I've seen several things about this. That's a nice picture, FelixFelix. I've seen better ones, but I couldn't find any on the net. *sighs* It's good enough to show it though. I've never heard of the wall being torn down. I think perhaps this is a fabrication. I've only heard of it being cleaned and painted. I'd like to think it's true. How wicked is it that some innocent guy could leave a mark like that? You know that had to freak out his accusers when it was all going down. lol

i believe it could be real....but there is so much fake stuff out there it is so hard to believe anymore....

very interesting im going to dig deeper

If the wall was really replaced then its probably real... i believe it can happen

weird but not at all impossible

Had to be real doesnt it

i belive that it is true.

Thats really freaky, but I believe it.

Seems like a job for snopes.com

Reminds me of the one about the Belmez Faces. I don't get creeped out easily, but that makes my skin crawl.

I have to agree, this does kinda creep me out a bit. I think the man was trying to make a point even after his death.

I have heard of this before , and about the Molly Maguires , so I believe this to be Legitimate and some paranormal occurrence. A very interesting article. Thank you for sharing..

Well, I most certainly would believe it! The poor guy was innocent. I'm sure his essence was absorbed into the wall! I love things like this. I like to believe !

Very cool and very legitimate.. Thanks for sharing.

Everyone leaves a make in life some visible and some not. I belive it.

Now this is what I call a phsychic imprint.. he was determined to show that he was innocent, and until this very day no one has made it so..

My thoughts are that he is still needed to be set free, not only on this earthly plain, but on the very one he is in right now..~NFA~

Perhaps a last way of "justice pervailing" let all who cursed this man to death; witness his innocense in the end. I believe it to be true...sorry for babeling.

Yes a reminder of all sorts to be ever so careful of who you accuse.. when they really are innocent..~NFA

I think it is entirely real. I read another story about 2 irish men who were hanged for a crime they didn't commit and one of them had said "I am innocent and to prove this let no grass grow on my grave so that everyone can see you have buried an innocent man" To this day there is no grass on that grave they have planted grass seeds have put new sod on it have dug up the dirt put new dirt down and then sod and all the grass dies within a couple fo days of having been put there

it could go either way. its all about perception.

it could be legitimate but who knows, people will do anything these days

it seems legitimate....since they have even tried to plaster or concrete over it and if the wall was taken down and replaced then it reappeared that is just too freaky. I read several articles when I went and looked this up that said scientist have test it and cannot figure out the substance that it is made of.

yes ive seen this story on a tv program
it seems to be real they have painted over it several times and it bleeds through
and supposedly the print wasnt there before he died it only appeared after he was put to death

Revisiting this thread and just wanted to clarify my earlier most...there were a lot of "ifs" in it, and IF they all panned out, I said "compelling" not convincing.

Yep, Sacred, I'm aware that reporters and even investigators often mislead us; that's why it's impossible to call something like this. Let's leave it at, "My mind isn't shut to the slim possibility that it's real."

After reading the article I had to wonder if people staked out the area after the different paintings in order to insure that it wasnt fraudulent... Capitalism and the desire for tourist money can be quite powerful...

Although I have to admit, I am not moved in one way or another as to if that handprint is an example of a paranormal occurence or not. I will have to read more than just one article on the subject to declare it either way...

Sorry, I need proof before I believe because other than that I am wasting my time on the fantasical.

I believe it could very well be a legitimate paraormal occurence. He said that his handprint would remain there forever, and... it has so far, though it endured chemicals and even knocking the wall down. It was his dying proposal, and it was undoubtedly sealed in blood.

Call me crazy, but I believe it.

I think there's some discrepancy over whether the wall was actually taken down. It's rather an important point and I'd love clarification about that if anyone knows one way or the other.

It is my understanding that in the 1930s they tried getting rid of the handprint by replastering the area around the hand.

As the story goes, the new plastered wall didnt stop the handprint from returning.

Sacred, in your research, there's no chemical analysis? I'd imagine that would be a top 5 test.

This is the first time that I have actually heard of this or anything of the sort. Although it sounds cool, I would have to find a way to go and see it myself before I actually believed it I think. Or at least have some resounding evidence that would confirm / deny rumors.

In the link you provide Sacred, it mentions removing the wall. I have come across it on several other pages where it states that that paticular part of the wall was replastered to try and remove the handprint.

I think that is a possible thing to happen. mostly because there are some paranormal Phenominon, but that sometimes is rarly seen.

Here is another site talking about the removal of the wall. This article even mention forensic scientists and measurements of exactly where the hand print was…So as to be able to decipher if it was someone repaint the hand print.

I am not sure I follow you Sacred as to what the handprint was made of. Do you mean oil? blood? etc? I havent come across anything either yet but I would imagine that if it was blood the print would be red and mentioned.

I think it's legit, with the proof of course. But like people have said, it's all in one's perspective

I believe it to be true, that a energy fingerprint or in his case ,handprint was l eft behind.

intresting

The article states that, "In recent years, a forensic scientist from George Washington University named James Starrs and a police chemist from Maryland named Jeff Kercheval performed a professional analysis of the phenomenon." If this is true were they able to retrieve any type of fingerprint off of the hand print? And if so did they compare it to everyone who had access to the cell who could have possibly recreated? I'm not saying it's a hoax or that it's real, but with the technology used to raise fingerprints from the slightest smudge, it seems to me that they should have found some kind of print, even if just a partial one.

im not sure about that seems ok to me hey if they're that dumb let them have theyre fun lol

This is totally real. I live 15 mins from the Jail in the town of Lehighton. And I have seen the print. The floor is still the original dirt floor. And when they used to have to put people in the cell if there was overflow, the person would start going insane. It was the county jail up until the new one was opened in the late 90s.

Yeah...I love history incase you can't tell. But this is even bigger because it's local for me.

I forgot to also add in there that you can see where it was painted over, when you see it in person. It's to hard to fake...because if the manager would "refresh" it every so often, then it would never look the same. And the person doing it would also have to have the exact same size hand.

hmmmmmmmmmm i kinda wanted to know more about this mabey you can help me with it

:]

Go right ahead. Would probably be easier for you to just PM me though...or I can give you my IM name. And anything I can't answer off the top of my head, I will be sure to look it up for you. It very interesting, but you should also read up on the molly maguires (sp?) too, since that's what all lead up to it...and the words "if I am innocent, that hand print will still on the wall forever"...as he rubbed it in the dirt and put the hand print there...then was hung shortly after.

:[

Click here for the website discussing James Starrs investigation into the handprint.

It turns out that there were no finger prints to be made out of the handprint. Interesting enough, it appears that the forensic investigation actually yielded the conclusion that the handprint was not the original (different hand used in different pictures). Also he notes that it appears brush strokes come right up to the hand print but do not appear to have painted over it.

It really is an interesting take on the handprint and I encourage folks to read the other side :)

wow cool history

Well...everytime the handprint reappears it of course won't look like it was painted over. Eventually you get that much paint in one spot that it becomes smooth and you don't see nay brush strokes. Plus the print is also appearing on top of it. And I also didn't expect there to be fingerprints since it was made with dirt. I mean, look the wall of your house, when your hands are dirty and you touch it, you usually don't get a finerprint either, just a mark. And like I said...I've seen it to...up close. And didn't notice any of those things either.

I think it is true.someone who gives off a certain energy can leave marks behind.

rogue599, you say you live nearby. Any chance that YOU could take a pic for us to see?? That would be really neat 'cause all of them that I've seen aren't that good as far as quality goes.

that's the problem...most of them were prolly fake. last time i was there they wouldn't even let you take pics of it. but if i get there this summer...since i want to take a friend there anyway when they visit...i'll see what i can do because i have a nice digital now and i wouldn't need the flash...which is why they usually don't want you taking pics...just like in a museum with paintings.

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